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Selling items as Paypal gift...

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by BAXTING, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. BAXTING

    BAXTING Mu-43 Top Veteran

    806
    Aug 5, 2012
    Los Angeles SFV, CA
    Bradley
    Ok so Im sure there are mixed feelings on this and likely has already been discussed. Im curious how others look at listings when offered as gift or buyer adds 3%. I know my views are my own and I respect others views as well. Here is my 2 cents.

    I almost find it rude to list an item and then ask me (the buyer) to add another 3% if I want protection. Almost like going into a store and seeing all the item prices listed and getting to the register and being asked to add 3% to the total. Under no circumstance would I blindly send money to a stranger with no feedback or very little. Although I have purchased as gift on the forum from other members with good feedback or those I have done business with before. I personally would never publicly list an item with payment as gift though. If the buyer wishes to opt for payment as gift I would expect such communication to handled with PM's. Also when you select payment as gift the listing states, "Personal/Gift PayPal (violates PayPal policy and no buyer protection)". Maybe the semantics here are whats getting at me, but if you can create a listing that does not violate any paypal policies publicly, then why do the opposite? I dont even consider buying from anyone who lists an item as a gift, but that is just me being a bit harsh I guess. It also kind of confuses me why it is even available as an option.

    Anyone care to share their feelings on it, possibly shed some light on the subject? Like I said I value everyone's opinions and would genuinely be interested on how others feel. This is not something specific to this forum, but looks like a trend across all forums. I have tendency to see everything in Black/White so Im trying to get back to the gray area. Im not stuck on a particular way of thinking either. Look at my sig, I might have already changed my mind... :smile:

    B
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    I offer both options, want to pay more, get the protection if you think you need it. 3% on certain gear adds up quickly, at least a lunch, maybe a dinner. I have good feedback, so what's it worth to you?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    I also offer both. I also ship however the buyer requests, with the caveat that if they waive protection/tracking/insurance, I am not responsible.

    With regards to the prices being more in a store, ever heard of Sales Tax? Most areas are more like 6-7%.

    Sent from my LG-P769 using Mu-43 mobile app
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    I'm pretty black and white on this as well.

    Seller is responsible to get the item to me as described. Tell me what I'm paying. Insure the delivery, or don't - your responsibility; your call. I am not contracting the delivery so I can't go back to the carrier for compensation if something goes wrong.

    As far as payment goes, the key word for me is "payment". It's not your birthday; I'm not giving you a gift.

    At the end of the day I much prefer to deal with a seller who takes responsibility for his end of the transaction and provides me with an all-in price for what they are selling. I don't want to negotiate about shipping or insurance, or have to add 3% to whatever price is being advertised. Make it simple for me as a buyer.
     
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  5. Levster

    Levster Mu-43 Top Veteran

    To me the real saving when selling on here is not having to stump up 10% of the selling price and postage costs to eBay. PayPal protection works both ways so I'm not willing to send an expensive item to somebody who could then reverse the charges. Personally I would only offer and accept proper PayPal.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Wisertime

    Wisertime Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 6, 2013
    Philly
    Steve
    I don't ask for 3%. I build that into the price. If someone wants to save a few bucks and pay me as gift, I'm ok w/ that too, but I don't expect a stranger to offer me that by default.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. BAXTING

    BAXTING Mu-43 Top Veteran

    806
    Aug 5, 2012
    Los Angeles SFV, CA
    Bradley
    Here in Los Angeles sales tax is closer to 10% but that is understandable when buying from a retail store as they dont pay sales tax on wholesale items, instead they collect it from their customers.

    I think what I meant to say (as another mentioned in this thread) is I have to add 3% in order for you to be responsible. I think it is irresponsible to advertise yourself as irresponsible to save the buyer 3%. I look at what I want for net to me, then I add the 3% and thats my original asking price, we can negotiate from there. It just seems odd to me to ask for net and then ask the buyer to add 3% if they dont trust you. I also include shipping, but that is a matter of personal preference. I want to make it easy for anyone to buy stuff from me.

    Thanks for your comment

    B
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. RichardB

    RichardB Snapshooter

    442
    Nov 19, 2012
    Maryland, US
    Richard
    I think it's unethical to ask for a gift. It's like mislabeling an international shipment to avoid customs duty. A buyer needs some assurance for a remote transaction with a stranger. If a seller does not include the Paypal fee in the price, I think he's shady and I shy away from his item. If he's not straightforward about the nature of the transaction, I can't be sure he's straightforward about the item's condition.

    On the other hand, there is a type of seller who sets a "net to me" price, and doesn't bother to calculate what the asking price should be with Paypal fee included. Most of us who sell gear consider the Paypal fee a cost of doing business, and we try to make the purchase simple and inviting to customers, but some sellers don't think from a buyer's point of view. The seller may just be limited in his experience or outlook. If the item is attractive enough, I might add 3% and buy it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    All roads lead to Rome. As long as you tell me what my price is, how we will transact, what you will do, and what you want me to do, then I have enough information to make my decision. With respect to price, just tell me my options, if there are any, and I can decide if that is waht I wish to pay. For the most part, I agree with Dean, but that is my preference, not a requirement. I have purchased expensive lenses on Nikonians where folks have shipped the lens before I was able to send a check (and the deals worked out fine). Trust is a funny thing, but it is earned and granted, not assumed, in my book.

    --Ken
     
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  10. BAXTING

    BAXTING Mu-43 Top Veteran

    806
    Aug 5, 2012
    Los Angeles SFV, CA
    Bradley
    Thanks Richard,

    That does make sense. I have found myself doing the same on occasion.

    In the recent past I owned a distribution business. It was imperative we did everything we could to make sure the customer was covered and ourselves as well. This was the cost of doing business and factored into the price of the item among other things. I have literally shipped 1,000's of envelopes, boxes, and pallets worldwide and just have a set way of doing things after making mistakes and learning from them. In the end if I am taking your money I feel I am responsible for the transaction.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. JasonA

    JasonA Mu-43 Regular

    28
    Mar 26, 2013
    I always include it in the price. I've had people negotiate with me for a slightly lower price if they pay differently, and that's fine. However, as a buyer I expect protection so as a seller I always offer it.

    That is for a normal transaction. There are countries where Paypal offers no protection to the seller at all, in which case I'd require a gift or some other form of payment. A few years back someone in Russia wanted to buy a $1600 lens from me. There was no way I'd take that chance, so the buyer agreed to wire the money to my bank. In that case he took all the risk. Fortunately for him I sent the lens. :biggrin:
     
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  12. Just Jim

    Just Jim Mu-43 Top Veteran

    941
    Oct 20, 2011
    IMO. *cough*

    I don't gift. I don't like the extra 3% thing, if you want that, account for it in the price. I usually account for shipping as well in the price, except for certain things like other countries, really oddball items that may need freight, etc. I certainly have less discourse on those matters, compared to purchasing from someone that does. Less PM's means quicker to transaction or finding out if they're kicking the tires. I don't sell often, and I don't have patience for tire kickers, although I don't mind honest intentioned hagglers.

    Although I feel like I'm seeing less and less of the add 3% thing. Which is fine with me, as I'm mostly a buyer 99% of the time, and I'm usually just looking for an honest price, and honest seller. And as a buyer, I always wonder, "why does he want the gift option" and I have to add that into my thought process, which may mean no sale, unless the item's price has that risk covered.
     
  13. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    I guess we look at it differently. When I sell, I will talk with they buyer, provide any all information I can to show I am responsible, and then ship, usually offing a pic pf the receipt for trust. I dont look at the 3% as me being trustworthy or not, more as a secondary insurance. I have had people pay insurance/tracking but waive the 3% and vice versa. I can say that I haven't had any issues selling (knock on wood). It seems like it is a six of one vs half-dozen of the other if people are pricing w/ 3% then having requests for gifts vs option to do/not. To me as a buyer, it comes down to who I want to followup with if an issue arises (Paypal/UPS/etc.).

    Sent from my LG-P769 using Mu-43 mobile app
     
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  14. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    If an issue arises, that may be no fault of buyer or seller, and you have done a Gift transaction the buyer is at the mercy of the seller.

    That's unacceptable to me as a buyer, and as a seller I am OK with the buyer having some recourse if things go sideways. It goes back to the point of trustworthiness, I think.
     
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  15. Ramsey

    Ramsey Mu-43 Top Veteran

    719
    Jan 9, 2013
    Zagreb, Croatia
    I'm also reserved on this area.

    While i too think 3% should be calculated within the price in lieau of greater transparency, almost no one on this forum is hiding behind terminology and declare it (add 3% if you want regular paypal and not a gift) immediatelly. Is adding 3% a trouble? It is a little bit, but i don't do it as much to present it as such a burden. The seller just wants to present the fact that if you want to go that road, it is possible.

    All parties should be protected, and ebay regular rules ensure that (as they are, they are probably protecting the buyer a bit more). On the other hand, all of us work for our money, want to save as much money as possible, and 3% is 3%. Some people have more trust in other people (be they complete strangers or regular customers/sellers) and can accept the risk for that 3%.

    It's just your decision whether those 3% are worth to you as an insurance or not. To me, they are.
     
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  16. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    And one other thing to remember is people shop here because of the price. If you want service, protection, warranty and a return policy, check out KEH or B&H.
     
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  17. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    I would never buy ANY item from any seller who doesn't, as a matter of course, offer regular PayPal within the selling price. Quite simply, selling via PayPal gift is unethical - it violates the terms of using PayPal, and it free-rides on a service that is in a legitimate business to provide a valuable service. If you'll screw a business over a few bucks, you're just as likely to screw a buyer.

    Similarly, I would never sell an item without including the PayPal fees and the full protection they offer, in the selling price.

    IMHO, it's black and white - selling items to strangers via PayPal gift is completely shady, and shows the seller to be someone who's not entirely trustworthy.
     
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  18. Narnian

    Narnian Nobody in particular ...

    Aug 6, 2010
    Midlothian, VA
    Richard Elliott
    I don't sell anything as a gift through Paypal. They are entitled to their cut for the service. Also it protects both myself and the buyer.

    I always pay the 3% if not included on anything I buy for the same reason.

    What overseas transactions I do where it is requested to be listed as a gift to avoid import fees I also do not do for the same reason.

    If someone is trying to skirt fees it makes me a little suspicious of the transaction.

    And, more importantly as others have pointed out, I believe it is unethical.
     
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  19. leungw

    leungw Deal Hunter

    339
    May 26, 2011
    NJ
    Willy
    I think re-wording it would be more pleasant to read. Listing price would include PayPal fee. PayPal Gift would be a 3% discount.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    I want to receive the item as described for the price I agreed to pay. I'd like some recourse if it doesn't work out that way. If I want to gamble I'll go to a casino.

    When looking at the bigger picture, I like the ability for us (as a community of photography enthusiasts) to be able to have a safe and user-friendly Buy&Sell forum. It allows all of us gear junkies to buy, try and sell without taking the huge depreciation hit associated with buying new. A forum where Gift payments are prevalent is an invitation for scammers to take your money and run. Protected PayPal transactions ultimately help us all, and make the Buy&Sell experience a bit better, imo.
     
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