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Sell it all for Fuji?

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by davidzvi, May 25, 2014.

  1. davidzvi

    davidzvi Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    I have a Panasonic GX1, LVF2, Olympus 14-42mm, Panasonic 14-140mm, and Panasonic 14mm.

    The lens kit I have is just about all I really want/need as this is my for fun travel stuff. I could add something wider, maybe another fast prime. But really about the only thing I really want is a NICE 12-60/80 travel zoom, an m4/3 version of 4/3 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 SWD would be great. Selling some of the stuff now. I could just sell the body/EVF and pickup an E-M10 or E-P5 and be done. The E-P5 I think would make more sense if I stay m4/3. I really only need the the EVF when I'm using the longer end of the 14-140. But I like the size of the EVF-less bodies more.

    Or I could sell it all for an X-M1, 16-50, 50-230, and 27mm 2.8. I rarely shoot anything moving with any real speed so I don't think AF speed will be that much of an issue. I also think the simpler layout might suit me better.

    One thing I know would annoy me with the E-P5 is will the flash not fire or can you physically not point the flash up for bounce flash? Also I'm not really a fan of touch screens, I know I can turn it off. But are there functions that need to have the touch on to work?

    Is there something about the E-P5 that I'm missing?
    Yes I do know most of the tech bits, faster AF, IBIS, 1/8000 shutter, etc.

    Here is a quick gallery of they type of stuff I shoot with this setup:
  2. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    Funny, I am thinking of going thru the same thing with my G3, kit lens and P20. What is alluring to me is the manual controls, and I have a decent amount of legacy glass the fills the holes from most of the primes. I did see the X-E1 kit with 18-55 new from Adorama for 699 with 6% back, free grip and archive drive. The other option for me is to pick up a Metabones focal reducer, but the X-E1 gives me the same view, and I rarely need the extra stop of speed.

    I notice the Nikon glass in your signature. Would a crop Nikon suit you better since you already have the glass?
  3. davidzvi

    davidzvi Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    Sean, Not really. Still bigger than I would like. And want this kit to be distinctly different.
  4. jjviegas

    jjviegas Mu-43 Regular

    Apr 18, 2013
    Porto, Portugal
    I had both E-P5 and X-E1 for some time, liked both and each one had it's things. After all, I sold the Fuji and all the lenses and kept the Oly.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  5. taz98spin

    taz98spin Mu-43 Top Veteran

    May 13, 2011
    Sorry, but will the flash not fire? I don't understand what you mean.., yes, you can set the flash not to fire like any other camera.

    Pretty sure you can be tilted upwards and it will still fire. But it's a pretty weak flash & not sure how much it'll help.

    As for your question about the X-M1. You're comparing a top end PEN to the 2nd lowest Fuji X camera.. I would get the top end PEN if the $ is the same.
  6. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    I have an XE1 and love the controls but Fujis just aren't there for moving things. Even the XT1 isn't up to most consumer level DSLRs.

    Fuji seems to concentrate on image quality and controls.
  7. davidzvi

    davidzvi Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    Moving subjects are not really what I would be using this for so.....

    Many reviews of the E-P5 like the one on DPReview comment that:
    "Unlike the units on several similar cameras, it can't be pulled back and manually bounced for better lighting."

    So I'm not sure if there is a mechanism that stops it from firing if not in the correct position. Or if the popup mechanism itself will not allow the flash to be pulled back.

    Yes I am fully aware that the E-P5 is the top rangefinder Olympus while the X-M1 is not. But the E-P5 would run 500-600 for the body. The X-M1 would be $700 for the body and the 16-50 AND the 50-230. Which is actually a really good thing since the 27mm f2.8 I would need to replace my 14mm is $450. So in the end the $$ would be close to a wash.
  8. jnewell

    jnewell Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 23, 2011
    Boston, MA
    Not sure how much this might contribute to your thinking, but I had an X100s for a while and I really did not find the Fuji files as magical as many bloggers and forum participants say. Actually, I found them a little more challenging to work with in Lightroom - I had to work a little harder to get results I liked than with Oly, Panasonic and Nikon raw files. In the end, I sold the X100s.
  9. taz98spin

    taz98spin Mu-43 Top Veteran

    May 13, 2011
    Wow! You're right! Just got home & tried to pull the flash back on the E-P5, & it's designed so you can't even pull it back..

    As for the price point, the X-M1 sounds like a good deal, but it's best not to buy the 1st version cameras. Maybe once the X-M2 comes out? I'm a Fuji user, so I have no biases against Fuji, but my pick would still be the E-P5!
  10. taz98spin

    taz98spin Mu-43 Top Veteran

    May 13, 2011
    There you go.

    Like many Fuji users are saying, the RAW converter used is important.
  11. angusr

    angusr Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    Sep 21, 2011
    As others have said, the flash can not physically be pulled back. Regarding the touch screen, it is not necessary. The interface is to my mind much less touch focussed than the Panasonic one. I pretty much only use the screen for turning on the WiFi and for touch focus.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Mu-43 mobile app
  12. val

    val Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Dec 19, 2013
    I've used my Panasonic GX7 and the Fujifilm X-E2 side by side quite a lot, the biggest difference I've noticed is that Fuji does have better noise performance but I can make them both look the same other than that.

    I edit in Lightroom and the 5.4 update definitely helps with Fuji files.

    the 16-50mm and 50-230mm are great lenses no doubt about that.

    you like the E-P5 design yet haven't considered the GX7?
  13. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    None of the pop-up flashes were actually "made" to be pulled back for bounce. That was just a serendipitous advantage that was found from the old design used by both Panasonic and Olympus cameras. However, that old design was also very fragile... thus it was abandoned for a more conventional design which does not pull back beyond its proper stop. If "bounce" was actually a real design feature of the pop-up flash, then it would not require you to manually hold onto it. It would have real stops at different angles.

    There is nothing in the flash unit that stops it from firing, it's just a much stronger mount. As far as control of the pop-up flash, all Olympus cameras have always had the greatest control of any I have ever seen. You can control an Olympus pop-up with any settings you want, including full manual with traditional power ratios... just like an external hotshoe flash. Most pop-up units from other systems (ie, like Canon, Nikon, etc.) are fully automatic and don't let you control the power except to say "let the camera take care of it" or "turn it off". There is only one thing I will ever use a pop-up flash for, and that is to trigger optical slaves (though even then I usually always have better methods), Having no direct control over your flash power makes that the most frustrating endeavor ever.

    Which of course is why I couldn't care less if my pop-up flash can bounce or not, as pop-up flash light looks terrible in any case and I simply would not use it. It's better to either use real flash lighting (ie, speedlights or strobes), or else use ambient lighting and fast glass if necessary. There is no situation in which I would see bounce pop-up as a necessity.

    Neither can I see its absence from newer Pen cameras to be a reason to ditch the system when you consider that this was a short-lived "bonus" introduced serendipitously to the m4/3 system which is not present in any other system anywhere else. So if Olympus and Panasonic change their design, what will moving to another system solve? The Fuji flash is fixed inside the camera body the old-fashioned way, just like old film compacts. You certainly won't get "bounce flash" from that, and covering it with a diffuser is even more difficult!

    No, there are NO functions whatsover on any Olympus camera which require the touch screen. The touch screen is nothing but a bonus. It happens to be a very excellent replacement to the directional buttons for moving focus points. I use my touch screen for that purpose and that purpose only, and for that one purpose it is a killer feature. It does not affect the operation of the camera in any other way.

    The only cameras that come to mind in the m4/3 system are the compact Panasonic cameras. I have no idea about the new GM-1 as I have not handled it, but the mini GF series cameras like the GF-3 and up were entirely touch-screen reliant and had an incredulously frustrating touch-screen menu system. At least, frustrating to an old-fashioned, traditional photographer like myself. Olympus has never taken any functions away from the traditional controls and moved them to the touch screen. Their touch screens only offer bonus functions (like point selection or an alternative method of picking Super Control Panel items). This is still the case right down to their smallest Mini cameras with the least number of buttons and dials. And this is how I hope they forever continue to build their cameras. ;) 
    • Like Like x 1
  14. davidzvi

    davidzvi Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    Good to hear, oddly the manual describes how to use things like the Super Control Panel with touch and nothing else that I can tell. It also describes that getting to it requires multiple presses of the info button. But I guess if you turn off the Live Control and Live Guide it would go directly to the SCP.

    Low light/available light is one of my main criteria, it's why I went FX for my event work.

    I looked VERY briefly at the GX7. I'm not a fan of their Quick menu, at least on the GX1, the interaction seems off and on the GX1 not all the functions I would want are available to be added. And why do 4 function buttons with default labeled functions that have little to do with things I need quick (while shooting) access to? Really do I need quick access to WiFi, LVF, and F2 should still bring up the quick menu so bringing it up and exit/return are the same. And then of course the controls I would want are nicely labeled with the 5 function buttons on the screen. Sorry, I digress, while I like the basic control options on the GX1 I find that next layer of function not implemented efficiently.

    Actually the flash on the GX1 can lock the flash pointed up.
    It's not mention in the review I looked at on the GX7 one way or another.
    But the Fuji X-E1 & 2, X-M1, and X-A1 have popup flashes that can, only the fixed lens X100s and X20 have fixed, in body flashes.
    It seems all the Sony range finders can as well, though I only looked at a few.
    And all the cameras I've considered in this range have adjustable flash settings, I would not consider one without.

    If a tilting flash was a requirement I would just rule the E-P5 out wouldn't I? But I and many others do use the feature. And I say many others only because the feature is mentioned in enough reviews that I can only assume I'm not the only person interested in knowing.

    I'm only considering ditching the system because I not enjoying the GX1 and I REALLY like my Fuji S5 Pro. It had the best SOOC JPeg image of anything I've used.

    And that is why I'm having a hard time. Olympus does seem to have done the handling and SCP the right way. If not I would not have even posted the question.

    True on most systems. But Fuji actually seems to be good about firmware updates. Take a look at the X-E1 update. It seems they added just about everything they could add to the X-E1 from the X-E2 that didn't require a hardware change. And when they had the light leak issue they recalled the cameras. Compare that to Olympus with the focus peaking. If 43rumors can be believed marketing is the only reason it wasn't updated. And while I could see holding it back from the E-PL5 to differentiate it from the E-PL7 are they saying an E-P7 is coming soon as well?
  15. davimack

    davimack Mu-43 Rookie

    Dec 25, 2012
    Have an EM1, with about 10 Olympus lenses, but am getting lured away towards Fuji and the XT1. Camera bodies are the same size, but Fuji lens are larger and heavier, which is a negative, but the picture quality, out of the camera, seems a little better, and have always loved the Velvia film "appearance". Used to shoot a lot of Velvia when I had a Mamiya film camera years ago. Can get along fine without the touch screen! Have done nothing yet, but definitely getting close! Any comments or thoughts?
  16. jeffryscott

    jeffryscott Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    Rent and XT1 first. I loved the idea of the XT1 and sold my Xpro1 to get one. Ended up back here with an EM1. There were many things about Fuji I absolutely loved, but enough about the XT1 to make me want to try the EM1 (had previously had EM5's and EP1,2). When it came down to it, the EM1 won from a usability standpoint. Aesthetically I loved the Fuji, its manual dials, aperture rings, etc ... I do give the nod to Fuji image quality and its lenses are superb, but so are the m43 lenses (which are also smaller and cheaper). Ultimately, while the body sizes are similar, the m43 lens system is much smaller for the lenses I wanted.

    Either system is fantastic and image quality is similar enough. You just need to get your hands on an XT1 to try.
  17. RobDMB

    RobDMB Mu-43 Regular

    May 12, 2013
    Funny, I have an XE2 and 18-55mm and 55-200mm and am debating switching to an OMD (either EM5ii or EM1). I have an opportunity to get a great price on an olympus system am wondering if a setup of a Pro zooms would be better. Just wondering if I will regret giving up the sensor size.
  18. davidzvi

    davidzvi Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    Yes rent one first, my trip into Fuji was short lived. While there is a lot to like with Fuji I found I like Olympus better overall.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. andyw

    andyw Mu-43 Veteran

    Jan 27, 2010
    Surrey. UK
    I have had both Fuji and M4/3 plus Canon APS-c and full frame, Nikon APS-c and full frame and Sony A7......I always come back to M4/3. It just suits me down to the ground! I now have the E-M1 and E-M10 plus some nice lenses.

    At the end of the day it's what suits you. The least important item in photography weirdly is the camera!! As long as it does what you want and is comfy to use then that's all that matters. Lenses are way more important and of corse your abilities as a photographer.
  20. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    I used to own a lot of Fuji stuff back a few years. I liked the handling, the IQ, and yes the camera bodies are smaller, but the lenses are still going to need to cover the APS-C sensor, so you are still looking at an overall larger camera size than the m43 equivalents.

    The Fuji cameras were frustrating not only in focus tracking and general AF performance(they are getting better - m43 still is much better though), but in the overall camera performance going from menu to menu, waking up from powered down as well as waking up from sleep. To get slightly better performance you have to put it in high performance mode, which kills an already anemic battery performance.

    m43 makes some great small general purpose zooms on the wide to medium and medium to long telephoto(I've recently had an image I took with the $100 Oly 40-150/4-5.6 lens used in a national email advertising campaign - so the IQ is there.

    As others have said, it is probably best to find a place to rent the Fuji camera of choice and some of the lenses you are interested in. My gut feeling for you is telling me you'd be most happy with the E-P5 and just tweaking your lens selection to better fit your needs.

    Another consideration is this. Some camera manufacturers have their SOOC files tuned differently than others. There are people that think that SOOC images from their point and shoot look better than the SOOC images from a DSLR. On the surface this is true, but the bigger picture questions are, why and what can I do to the image after capture.

    WHY? - most point and shoot users/cell phone users want images they have to do nothing with after initial capture - so contrast, color, sharpness are all boosted to a more "complete" level. DSLR cameras are different in that most people get them and process files at home. The default settings are rather muted to give you more latitude to make them how you want them.

    The more processing that happens at time of capture, the less latitude you'll have at processing in post.

    Fuji has some different ways of thinking, so their ISO rankings are not done the same as just about every other camera maker. There has been a lot of debate about how Fuji rates their ISO. Not saying it is good or bad - I don't want to sway you. It would be something good for you to research if that matters to you.

    You cannot get RAW files for higher ISO shots(I believe anything over ISO 6400 - you get JPG instead).

    Just as much as Olympus might have issues with their menu systems that can cause some people to go into convulsions, Fuji has it's share of "features", mostly undocumented or poorly documented that cause people to get crazy. There are times when the hotshoe is disabled, so no external flash/triggering use is possible, some settings auto disable features, etc. Again - definitely something you'll want to research for your desired camera body.

    I'm not trying to talk you into anything else or out of anything either - just want to make sure that you make the most informed decision possible.
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