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Samyang 10mm f/2.8 with focal reducer => 7mm f/2.0

Discussion in 'Adapted Lenses' started by PeHa, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. PeHa

    PeHa Mu-43 Veteran

    206
    Nov 12, 2013
    Uppsala, Sweden
    This week I bought the Samyang 10mm with Nikon mount to try it with my (Chinese) RJ focal reducer that adapts it at x.72 focal length to m43. I didn't have too much hope for a nice, sharp result edge to edge but thought it could be used as a 10mm lens otherwise. However, the results so far truly exceeds what I expected :thumbup: Seems like it's sharp enough even at f2.0, could be great for wide angle astrophotography... :)

    Two sample scenes below, both shot at f4.0 and f2.0, jpegs straight from the cam except for resize (click for larger size).

    Lake scene at 7mm f4.0
    [​IMG]
    Lake scene at 7mm f2.0
    [​IMG]

    Graveyard scene (yes, hmm) at 7mm f4.0
    [​IMG]
    Graveyard scene at 7mm f2.0
    [​IMG]

    Aspect 3:2 was used, the lens becomes so wide that the built-in hood shows at top and bottom otherwise (I will probably cut it down). I think it still shows on the left hand side. The most obvious difference between f4 and f2 is more vignetting at the latter. I had to adjust the focal reducer to be able to focus properly (easy done with some googling info).

    The adapted E-M1 (not a small, light m43 thing ;))
    [​IMG]
    ******
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015
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  2. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Could you post an image in 4:3 showing the hood? I wouldn't have thought it was an issue as it's a FF lens so even with a speedbooster you're only using the APS-C part.

    It looks very good for such a wide lens at those apertures, if only they could do a native one the same size of the fisheye :D (I can dream can't I? hahaha)
     
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  3. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    I use the Bower 14mm f/2.8 which is a full frame lens version compared to your 10mm APS-C lens and I can tell you that I get similar performances as yours @ 10mm f/2. If you look closely at the corner edges of your samples, you will see softness @ f/2 and f/4 in the same places as my 14mm Bower and my Mitakon focal reducer, though for astrophotography this is not a problem. It's when you start doing internal architectural work when those corners start revealing the distortion and softness. They do go away after f/5.6. Sweet spot is f/8-f/11. It's a very nice lens btw. I use my Bower quite a bit as I found 10mm is as wide as I would go without those funny distortions creeping in.

    I'm interested in getting a companion to my Bower 14mm; which is the Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4 Macro TS Nikon mount. Has both macro and optical manual Tilt Shift and will be a 11mm f/2.8 when focal reduced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015
  4. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    The one I see for sale online is listed as APS-C, not FF.

    Barry
     
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  5. duke

    duke Mu-43 Veteran

    420
    Dec 4, 2010
    Tulsa, moving to Houston
    Duke
    Yeah, it isn't a FF lens.
     
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  6. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Pretty impressive setup for the cost/speed/AOV
     
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  7. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    That would explain the behavior, my mistake :)
     
  8. PeHa

    PeHa Mu-43 Veteran

    206
    Nov 12, 2013
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Yes, @eteless@eteless, as been said, it's an APS-C lens, full 43-image below including the hood :)
    As the hood can be seen, it means that the reducer gives a wider vertical image on the 43 sensor than on an APS sensor which is logical due to the 4:3 vs 3:2 proportions. But now the hood will be decimated (I wonder how btw, a knife, a small saw, or...).

    @bikerhiker@bikerhiker, I was looking at the Samyang 14mm as well as a safer alternative with a reducer and I've seen it's been highly rated in reviews. But as I already have a good 14mm option I decided to try this as it would add both 10 and 7mm with large apertures to my lens setup. And, yes, it's softer by the edges but even used without the reducer at 10mm, it gets softer away from the centre. It's still sharper everywhere than, for example, my sample of the 9-18mm. Infinity focus was used which might explain some softness in the nearest details at the largest aperture.
    Distortion seems normal for a 7mm lens (I may have a deeper opinion about that later on), it's obviously rectilinear anyway, differs a lot from the Samyang 7.5 mm fisheye :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
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  9. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Thanks for the picture, it's really not intruding much at all. Since it's just the tips maybe a file? A dremel would probably make short work of it as well. The reference to a fisheye was a dream, imagine if they could make a native rectilinear that small... only a dream at this point in time :p
     
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  10. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    Peha,
    I wouldn't be so haste to cut the hood off. I had the opportunity to test my Mitakon reducer with both the Nikkor 10-24 and the Nikkor 12-24 zoom APS-C lens and @ 10mm on the 10-24, i get similar vignetting as your 10mm APS-C lens. Since the hood on the Nikkor 10-24 is removable, the vignetting did not disappear even with the hood off. Same with 12-24, though the effect @12mm is lessened. From 13mm onwards, it works good which was why I bought the 14mm lens.

    I didn't realize that the Samyang is sharper than the 9-18. I was actually thinking of getting the 9-18 just for the convenience, but now maybe I'll keep the prime 10mm/f2 as my UWA and invest in a 15mm f/4 Macro Tilt Shift Venus Optics later..
     
  11. PeHa

    PeHa Mu-43 Veteran

    206
    Nov 12, 2013
    Uppsala, Sweden
    I didn't hesitate about the hood, decimated it before I read this. Used a small saw and a file but it was a bigger job than I thought, really nervous to scratch the lens. However, now it's done.
    The upper and lower sides became fine but there's still vignetting in the extreme corners not caused by the hood. I guess it is as you imply, the lens is designed for APS-C which is no problem when cropped to 3:2 but the full 4:3 image goes beyond that. Anyway, see the sample below, I made some PP to remove most vignetting.

    Regarding my comment on the 9-18 it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a ZD 9-18mm for the original 43 (not m43) that I use with the MMF-3 adapter. I was careful to state "my sample" as I wonder if I've had a lemon sample, not representative for all 9-18s and certainly not the m43 version.

    7mm f4.0 with hood decimated, full 43 size. PP done to remove vignetting in the most far out corners. (Click for full size)
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    That actually looks like a very solid result. I'd say those corners are just as good as my Olympus 11-22mm. Good work with the hood deletion. Care to post a picture of your handiwork?

    When you say 7mm/f4, I assume you mean the aperture ring reads f5.6? Supposedly the sweet spot in the corners for the 10mm/2.8 is f/8, so you may even be able to sharpen it up just a little bit more if you have such an appetite.
     
  13. PeHa

    PeHa Mu-43 Veteran

    206
    Nov 12, 2013
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Hi, here's a picture of the handicrafted hood and some further image samples. Your aperture assumption is correct, f4 above means f5.6 on the ring. I've started to use f5.6 (i.e. f8 on the ring) more frequently which however might reveal a drawback with this setup that I think depends on the RJ reducer; the so called blue spot shows more frequently at small apertures (I can show examples next week, on a vacation trip just now...).

    The 4:3 adapted hood. Could be further smoothed but I'm a bit worried that I eventually will scratch that glass.
    [​IMG]


    Two full 4:3 images directly from the camera (resized) incl vignetted corners. They're not all black so it's easy to adjust them in PP if needed.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Dramatic Art filter used (aspect 3:2). I think it's quite an appropriate scene for ultra wide angle... :)
    [​IMG]

    I think this was shot at f5.6 (no aperture exif info from the Samyang...) Click for large size.
    [​IMG]

    *****
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
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  14. chonbhoy

    chonbhoy Mu-43 Veteran

    430
    Apr 23, 2013
    Scottish Highlands
    Hi thanks for posting your experience with this combo. I bought one recently with the Metabones focal reducer, I was trying it today and noticed the vignetting straight away, haven't decided wether to customise the hood yet!
    I have a few questions that if you could answer, I'd appreciate greatly.
    What is the best length to set the image stabilisation to manually? The Metabones is x0.71 and 8mm is the lowest in the settings on the EM1.
    Why is it dark in the view finder? When I manually open/close the lenses aperture it doesn't make the viewfinder any brighter.
    Do you have any other tips for this combo?
     
  15. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Looks good. I was tempted to pickup a cheap 8mm f/3.5 fisheye for APS-C and try it on my M43 focal reducer, I might give that a try after seeing these results!
     
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  16. chonbhoy

    chonbhoy Mu-43 Veteran

    430
    Apr 23, 2013
    Scottish Highlands
    The Samyang lens is cheap! Definitely worth a go, I read reviews which all had a lot of praise for it, now all I need to do is work out how to use it on EM1 (this is the only Nikon mount lens I have and first time using a focal reducer)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  17. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Use aperture priority mode and the viewfinder should be WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get), it won't work on shutter priority mode (and I have no clue about program/iauto/etc modes)
     
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  18. MAubrey

    MAubrey Photographer

    Jul 9, 2012
    Bellingham, WA
    Mike Aubrey
    The 10mm f/2.8 is actually an APS-C lens. So he's actually using ever so slightly more of the image circle that the lens is designed for when in 4:3.
     
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  19. chonbhoy

    chonbhoy Mu-43 Veteran

    430
    Apr 23, 2013
    Scottish Highlands
    I'll try this later, I had it on manual
     
  20. PeHa

    PeHa Mu-43 Veteran

    206
    Nov 12, 2013
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Hi,
    I use 8 mm for IS on the EM1, it works just fine, it doesnt have to be exact, just as close as possible.
    Regarding the dark viewfinder, I think you have had a good suggestion above :) I normally also use Aperture priority.

    Tips...
    Check that the aperture knob on the reducer always let you set the aperture on the lens (i assume you have such a knob on the Metabones for Nikon adapter as well). I've noticed that I accidently sometimes change it.
    I sometimes have a problem with a colored spot in the middle, especially in cloudy weather for some reason. I avoid it by using larger apertures and/or change angle of the camera. However, you may not have this problem as you're using the Metabones reducer. Have you noticed this?
    Otherwise using a real wide angle as 7mm is a challenge in itself and takes some learning, I'm not there yet ;)

    It would be really nice to see some samples from your Metabones / Samyang 10 combo :) Do you get the same level of vignetting as me (as the full 4:3 images above)? Theoretically, the Metabones could give a little more as it reduces more, .71 vs .72 with RJ, but it shouldn't be a big difference.

    Some samples again :) (large, can be clicked n zoomed)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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