Rumours that Panasonic is slowing/postponing Micro Four Thirds gear

fortwodriver

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Yeah, I remember LR not doing too great with that many spot heals, too. I assume your working drive is NVMe/PCIe storage? That seemed to be one of the best improvements I noticed, other than having a larger display so less panning and zooming was needed.

I'm on a 2012 Mac Mini. I've worked with 40MP+ files before in LR from other cameras, and yes, once you start spot retouching it can get quite slow as it keeps track of all of that in real-time. For some reason Photoshop, in all its complexity handles retouching FAR better than LRC. I just chalked it up to LRC being a bit of a resource hog.

I switched to C1 earlier this year for other reasons, but I still have my Adobe subscription.
 

RAH

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I expect these are out there, but does anybody have a side-by-side comparison between comparable cameras to evaluate the images? I would love to see a G9 & S5 side by side with as comparable lenses as possible, just to see the quality difference. I sometimes find photo comparisons between, say, the f1.8 & f1.2 lenses with differences that are really difficult to see (at the same f-stop). I wonder what circumstances would be needed before someone can see the difference between images shot on these two systems? I'm sure the S5 is better and in certain circumstances the difference is very noticeable, I'm just wondering how often that's the case (depth of field excepted, and I know how important that can be).
There is a direct comparison of the hi-res mode of these cameras here:


I think it is informative because I was wondering how much better a 96MP image from a FF camera would be than an 80MP image from a m43 camera.

Rob Trek has several YouTube videos comparing the S5 vs the Oly E-M1.3. That should give you a good idea of how the S5 compares to the G9, I would think. You could start with this:

 

fortwodriver

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Rob Trek has several YouTube videos comparing the S5 vs the Oly E-M1.3. That should give you a good idea of how the S5 compares to the G9, I would think. You could start with this:


I don't know if this matters, but this "test" reminds me of the weird colour science Panasonic seems to keep sticking to. Grey'ish faces and completely different from the Olympus in-camera colours. It also reminds me of the old Panasonic pro video from ages ago when I and my coworkers were constantly re-grading video footage from Panasonic cameras that had that similar weird greyish skin-tone... Seems to be a Panasonic "thing."
 

John M Flores

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If it were possible to buy an S5 for the same as a M4/3, would anyone get the M4/3??

I've bought enough cameras over the years to know that it's not the gear that's holding me back, it's skill, creativity, and opportunity.
 
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speedy

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I loved the colours of my G6.
Nature pics in vivid really were the best.
I was a Canon fan. My G9 produces colour every bit as nice as my old 6D. Panasonic has definitely improved, without doubt. That's why I use Silkypix as my raw converter. The colours are indistinguishable to the in camera settings, and that's a very good thing
 

pake

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Yeah, I remember LR not doing too great with that many spot heals, too. I assume your working drive is NVMe/PCIe storage? That seemed to be one of the best improvements I noticed, other than having a larger display so less panning and zooming was needed.
Yep. Two very fast nVME's (one for OS, one for data) and a SATA3 backup drive. 64GB ram too. But yeah, I guess we can get back to the original topic. Sorry for the thread hijacking. :D
 

whumber

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Sorry, missed this reply.

I can even show the rumour site where this clip is coming from
http://thenewcamera.com/panasonic-gh6-camera-may-use-sony-41mp-sensor-imx594cqr/


EDIT: now I even found the place where the rumour about true 41MP MFT sensor came from. It was EOSD forum and lo and behold, they were really talking about Olympus 2020 releases:
"If my sources are correct, Olympus will soon announce a 41MP MFT mirrorless camera using a variant of this sensor:"

Below that message was copy of IMX492 datasheet and the writer had only listed the resolution which m4/3 camera would use - also 41MP instead of the full 47MP. Anyway, there indeed were rumours about 41MP Olympus Camera for 2020 which never realized most likely because this sensor does not have PDAF sites and Olympus would have had to pay for a custom sensor development as they did with IMX270.

It actually came from some guy on the EOSHD forum who seems to have some kind of connection to Sony semiconductors during a discussion about the A6100/6600, although to be honest I don't follow that forum close enough to evaluate that person's credibility in any meaningful way.

There was one essential piece of information missing though. In another rumour this chip was correctly listed as 4k "color square pixel array" (CQR) sensor which makes a lot more sense.

"IMX594CQR – 41MP sensor able to record DCI 4K"

It can also record DCI 4k at 120fps (and use all pixels) and split into 41MP Quad Bayer sensor but not both at the same time.

That's certainly possible and a more likely explanation, but Sony lists all their other Quad Bayer sensors based on the number of "quad-pixels" rather than the number of sub-pixels.

Here's a better explanation about FF version of this Sony CQR sensor:
http://thenewcamera.com/sony-a7s-iii-to-feature-15mp-quad-bayer-sensor/

A7S III is a 12MP 4k-only videocamera with spectacular 15db dynamic range and low light performance but I don't know what happend to that theoretical 61MP resolution in the process because all reviews claim that still images are only 15MP. It can, however, record DCI 4k @120fps and use all pixels in doing so.

I think it's just telling you that Sony didn't use that particular sensor in the A7Siii.
 

RS86

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It's pretty likely that if they're making "revolutionary MFT zoom", they will also make a new camera. GH-series has been successful I think, and surely they can't tell about it more before the announcement? The zoom is a companion for 10-25mm f/1.7 maybe?

"Great news! Panasonic says new “revolutionary” MFT zoom and new MFT fast primes are in the works along the GH6!

Panasonic posted this long video chat for the CP+ online event. From around 51:00, Mr. Uno talks about the Micro Four Thirds system and says:
  • Yes we are “considering” to make the GH5 successor (which is just a diplomatic way to say “yes we are doing it”).
  • We are also considering to make a “Revolutionary” new zoom lenses and new fast single focus lenses for Micro Four Thirds.
  • He says “Please look forward to it”"
https://www.43rumors.com/great-news...t-fast-primes-are-in-the-works-along-the-gh6/
 

BDR-529

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Mixed feelings here.

I did set a hard deadline at CP+ for MFT system because this was in my opinion the last event where panny/omds could have launched some actual new bodies before the whole m4/3 ecosystem becomes obsolete.

And by new I do not mean the umpteenth facelift of that 5-6 year old 20MP sensor design with some dedicated AI AF features for hamster and scooter shooters this time.

All we got was more hot air from both companies. Well, at least one thing has changed. Instead of just repeating every 6 months those vaque promises for GH6 which panny might or might not ever release, they are now making also vaque promises for lenses which might of might not be launched in some unspecified future. Assuming of course that there are still some MFT users left by then.

On the plus side CP+ did improve the possible exit strategy. Sigma did launch a very compact constant aperture 28-70mm f/2.8 lens for L-mount. Panny S5 bundled with this lens will sell for around $2400€ after few months and solve 70% of my low light photography IQ problems.

https://www.l-rumors.com/announced-new-sigma-28-70mm-f-2-8-l-lens/
 
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Hypilein

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I will stay patient. Just give me a GX camera with global shutter (anything up from 16mp). FF has no draw for me and APS-C even less. My GX8 still takes photos that are pretty much the same quality as anything that's been released in mu43 to this day. Leaves me with more money to spend elsewhere (or save, as spending on trips is difficult right now).

At least we've heard something now. I think they could've been at bit more specific and I agree with those that are saying that it will probably be a fast telephoto. It could even be a fast super telephoto like a 100-300 f2.8. Both lenses will be too large for me anyway, but it's good for everyone if they keep pushing the envelope.
 
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Compared to the statements made by OM-D, the ones made by Panasonic feel more lackluster in terms of MFT involvement. While both haven't really announced anything, Panasonics ongoing way of dodging answers like "maybe", "we are considering" or "looking forward to" feels less enthusiastic than what OM-D has presented. But we'll have to wait and see what both companies are going to do later this year.
 

speedy

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Complainers are always complainers. My GX8 & G9 still work fine, my f/1.4 lenses still give comparable results to anything 36x24 with f/2.8 lenses currently available, can't find too much to complain about myself. Whinge on.
 

RS86

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Mixed feelings here.

I did set a hard deadline at CP+ for MFT system because this was in my opinion the last event where panny/omds could have launched some actual new bodies before the whole m4/3 ecosystem becomes obsolete.

And by new I do not mean the umpteenth facelift of that 5-6 year old 20MP sensor design with some dedicated AI AF features for hamster and scooter shooters this time.

All we got was more hot air from both companies. Well, at least one thing has changed. Instead of just repeating every 6 months those vaque promises for GH6 which panny might or might not ever release, they are now making also vaque promises for lenses which might of might not be launched in some unspecified future. Assuming of course that there are still some MFT users left by then.

On the plus side CP+ did improve the possible exit strategy. Sigma did launch a very compact constant aperture 28-70mm f/2.8 lens for L-mount. Panny S5 bundled with this lens will sell for around $2400€ after few months and solve 70% of my low light photography IQ problems.

https://www.l-rumors.com/announced-new-sigma-28-70mm-f-2-8-l-lens/

Well, seems like you have nothing to worry about then? Just patiently wait for the price to drop, and then give Panasonic your money for the FF. Meanwhile maybe limit your doom mongering here?

If Panasonic is saying they will release new lenses for M43, what is the reason not to believe it? If they release new lenses, then surely it's not far-fetched to think they will also release new cameras.

Why would they ditch a ready-made system, which has clear strengths still, no matter what the FF pushers say?
 

JonSnih

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It's pretty likely that if they're making "revolutionary MFT zoom", they will also make a new camera. GH-series has been successful I think, and surely they can't tell about it more before the announcement? The zoom is a companion for 10-25mm f/1.7 maybe?

"Great news! Panasonic says new “revolutionary” MFT zoom and new MFT fast primes are in the works along the GH6!

Panasonic posted this long video chat for the CP+ online event. From around 51:00, Mr. Uno talks about the Micro Four Thirds system and says:
  • Yes we are “considering” to make the GH5 successor (which is just a diplomatic way to say “yes we are doing it”).
  • We are also considering to make a “Revolutionary” new zoom lenses and new fast single focus lenses for Micro Four Thirds.
  • He says “Please look forward to it”"
https://www.43rumors.com/great-news...t-fast-primes-are-in-the-works-along-the-gh6/

  • It seems that both companies are waiting for the new 4/3 Sony sensor which is being manufactured now. That would mean a new generation bodies in Q4 2021.
  • We already have rich lens catalogue. Yes, you can find few holes in the OMDS and Panny line-up(s) but how many of new development is really needed on lens front? Panasonic got it right from the start in many cases, I guess:
    • a 12-35mm F2.8 & a 35-100mm F2.8 - HQ in bearable size
    • a 12-32mm F4-5.6 & a 35-100mm F4-5.6 - very good IQ in tiny package
    • a 14mm F2.5, a 20mm F1.7 pancake lenses
    • a 15mm F1.7 & a 25mm F1.4 - again, great additions
    • the latest F2.8-4.0 zoom trinity - very good and still compact choice
    • OK, what is here to improve to be even more m4/3 friendly?
  • Regarding the "revolutionary" zoom it sounds like a marketing buzzword to me. Would you consider a 25-50mm F1.7 as ground-breaking? I don't think so. A 10-50mm F2.5 might be it but does it really make sense to make it? No, it would be too heavy even for an advanced m4/3 user base.
  • The least thing we wanna see is another 25mm prime...
 

BDR-529

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If Panasonic is saying they will release new lenses for M43, what is the reason not to believe it?

I'm really happy to hear this because you are clearly able to link here the official Panasonic statement where they confirm what exactly will be released and when instead of this vapourware copy-pasted from that other rumour website.

" - Yes we are “considering” to make the GH5 successor

- We are also considering to make a “Revolutionary” new zoom lenses and new fast single focus lenses for Micro Four Thirds.

- He says “Please look forward to it


These were the very words panny imaging CEO used nearly half a year ago when he last stated that Panny is "considering" to design GH5 successor after all and asked us to stay tuned.

Quite a long time for "considering" something without any apparent intention to even release specifications of whatever is or isn't in their pipeline.

The least they could do is to release specs highlights so potential buyers would know if it's worth waiting for yet another year. As someone already stated above even OMDS promises are starting to sound credible compared to panny's.
 

fortwodriver

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The least they could do is to release specs highlights so potential buyers would know if it's worth waiting for yet another year. As someone already stated above even OMDS promises are starting to sound credible compared to panny's.

Why? It's not like a massive flood of buyers will suddenly come out of the woodwork. That may have worked or helped in 2009, but it likely wouldn't help them to leak much today.

I think they know that someone will buy a new camera they choose to make, but I'm sure they're also realistic given the general pullback of the camera-buying public over the past few years.

Just like how a lot of manufacturers are finally realizing trade-show style releases are pretty much an anachronism now. They can release anything they want, when they want to and market directly to the public through your desktop, tablet, or phone.
 

RS86

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I'm really happy to hear this because you are clearly able to link here the official Panasonic statement where they confirm what exactly will be released and when instead of this vapourware copy-pasted from that other rumour website.

" - Yes we are “considering” to make the GH5 successor

- We are also considering to make a “Revolutionary” new zoom lenses and new fast single focus lenses for Micro Four Thirds.

- He says “Please look forward to it


These were the very words panny imaging CEO used nearly half a year ago when he last stated that Panny is "considering" to design GH5 successor after all and asked us to stay tuned.

Quite a long time for "considering" something without any apparent intention to even release specifications of whatever is or isn't in their pipeline.

The least they could do is to release specs highlights so potential buyers would know if it's worth waiting for yet another year. As someone already stated above even OMDS promises are starting to sound credible compared to panny's.

Well, Panasonic has no problem here. They have the FF line-up like you say, and people like you can buy that if they are impatient and their gear cannot bring results they need.

People can also buy great products in the M43 land, while current users are not the most likely to upgrade unless they come up with some bigger tech jumps than in recent years.

Again, tell me why would Panasonic ditch ready-made system with best lens line-up in the game next to Sony? While the system has clear benefits compared to FF.
 

ivanbae07

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  • Regarding the "revolutionary" zoom it sounds like a marketing buzzword to me. Would you consider a 25-50mm F1.7 as ground-breaking? I don't think so. A 10-50mm F2.5 might be it but does it really make sense to make it? No, it would be too heavy even for an advanced m4/3 user base.
For me personally, yes. That lens is that good, nearly excellent (especially for video, that manual feeling in a focusing by wire lens tho, but for photography still that awesome) and i dare to say that this lens seems better than any m43's zoom lens i've ever tried (not that many, and i don't have any).
The downsides? not fully WR, not internally focusing, quite heavy and big (what? do you expect a 10-25mm f1.7, mft lens will bw smaller and lighter than a 18-35mm f1.8, apsc lens?)... but that's not a big deal if have the money and needs...
 
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