Rumours that Panasonic is slowing/postponing Micro Four Thirds gear

pake

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
2,414
Location
Finland
Real Name
Teemu
Surely time to go small again? Differentiate yourself truly from the FF newbies....

The EM10ii is about the same size as the G100, so my challenge to Panasonic would be to make a G120, with no vlogging bits, but WITH some IBIS - the EM10ii has shown it can be done in a body that size. I don't need the fancy features, just a stills camera that can make the most of that 20MP sensor and EVF. CDAF will be fine, too. You have all the bits, so must be a possibility, no? Surely? SURELY? HELLO?

(I know, hopeful suggestions never get replies, :) I also know vlogging is where it's at and that Panasonic will never do anything like this.....just treat my ramblings as the drivel of an old man...sigh)
I'm with you on this one. They both need smaller models as well. It would be idiotic to put all eggs in the "full frame sized cameras" basket. They will not win that race TBH. Focus on the size advantage and they have a fighting chance.
 

PhotoCal

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
281
If you're relying on a particular format/system or brand to continue your photography, then perhaps you should pay more attention to your skills as a photographer.

Reliance on equipment is one of the downsides of GAS.
 

Hypilein

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
1,602
The EM10ii is about the same size as the G100, so my challenge to Panasonic would be to make a G120, with no vlogging bits, but WITH some IBIS - the EM10ii has shown it can be done in a body that size. I don't need the fancy features, just a stills camera that can make the most of that 20MP sensor and EVF. CDAF will be fine, too. You have all the bits, so must be a possibility, no? Surely? SURELY? HELLO?
That camera already exists. It's called the GX9 and it's about the same price of the G100 too. Oh, and if you want a good EVF. Just get the good old GX8, which is better than the G100 in every way imaginable (except maybe the microphone but who cares, the GX8 has a mic jack) and can be bought used for less.
 

John M Flores

Super Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
3,197
Location
NJ
That camera already exists. It's called the GX9 and it's about the same price of the G100 too. Oh, and if you want a good EVF. Just get the good old GX8, which is better than the G100 in every way imaginable (except maybe the microphone but who cares, the GX8 has a mic jack) and can be bought used for less.
Does the GX8 have a flip/twist screen for selfies?
 

JonSnih

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
251
Location
CZE
If this is true, or if Panasonic exits Micro 4/3 altogether, this can only help the new Olympus company. Maybe the Micro 4/3 market will support only one manufacturer.
Don't worry. Panny will still produce current cameras and lenses which are popular and profitable (see bellow). We might see only 2 "regularly" updated camera line-up in the future (lets say a GH line and a GX line). They might also reduce number of lenses available. They will make what generates profit (I presume that all fixed R&D costs were written off - they do what Olympus did in tha past).

Sony still sells the 2014 A6000. This is what will happen with m4/3 low end - no more R&D there, just old cameras you can buy for cheap = a good entry to the system. You want something better, you have to pay for it and the choice will be limited (only few models).

Take the G9 or the E-M1ii/iii. They are all great. What else remains to be improved? AF, EVF, IQ. But how much it will improve your photography? Not so much. Yes, there is a space for an improvement but it is very small. And the 5-6year cycles will become reality.

M4/3 has a complete lens catalogue already. Any new lens is a bonus. Even without any new lens release in the future and with much longer camera life-cycle the system still have a lot of potential for those who like photography and value smaller package (convenience).
 

Darmok N Jalad

Temba, his aperture wide
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
1,353
Location
Tanagra (not really)
Yeah, the A6000 has been a Sony gateway drug for several years now. I think Panasonic has been using the GX85 and G7 as the same thing. Except now the GX85 is starting to see supply shortages. Did a bunch of folks buy the GX85 with 12-32 and 45-150 kit lenses during the holidays, or did Panasonic stop making it?
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
1,752
Location
Charente Maritime, western France
Real Name
Roddy
That camera already exists. It's called the GX9 and it's about the same price of the G100 too.
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

I guess if Panasonic were to add some stabilisation to the G100 it would be less different, but I still think it would be a nice little shooter for those who do not like the rangefinder style, nor the tilt-able EVF of the GX(9. The only major difference would be the faster mechanical shutter, but if you shoot with the electronic one most of the time, which a lot of people do, that shouldn't be too much of a con. And as a macro practitioner, I'd find the prospect of being able to do in-camera focus stacking intriguing....
 

archaeopteryx

Gambian sidling bush
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
1,611
And as a macro practitioner, I'd find the prospect of being able to do in-camera focus stacking intriguing...
You're referring to the stacking from 4k post-focus that's been available since the G80? It's such a seldom used feature I've found it difficult to get a clear sense of its abilities on any body with support (G80, G90, G100, G9, at GH5 at least) at any resolution (4k or, where available, 6k). From what I've been able to piece together it seems OK for simple compositions with easily stackable subjects and low numbers of frames. Beyond that, it appears to struggle. So I'm hesitant about it's ability to qualify for macro stacking beyond entry-level things such opening up for more background blur and then stacking a few frames to restore (or perhaps modestly enhance) depth of field.

I primarily work with macro stacks in the range of 100-300 frames. My 8.3 MP stack times from 4k post-focus shreds are therefore around a minute with GPU acceleration at 15 W TDP and the follow on cross-output retouching is often tedious with a tablet and working back and forth between Helicon and GIMP. A camera body with competitive compute throughput (and therefore similar TDP) seems unlikely even when powered from USB-C. As does the requisite firmware programming. Plus the user interface seems very likely to be poor due to the limited size of the rear LCD and shape of the camera body even if it were to support a stylus. Also not sure about camera bodies with the 8+GB of RAM that's routinely used, so performance would likely be limited by card read speeds.

In principle this could be addressed through processing engine changes and body redesigns. But, if there was clearly large market demand for the features, I'm skeptical of ILC manufacturers' willingness to be that innovative. I do think much of the retouching is AI automatable but, as no one's implemented it, it's hard to assess how feasible it would be to fit it into a camera body versus a conventional 15-65 W TDP or discrete GPU.

It's tempting to speculate this cluster of considerations could be why Panasonic doesn't support focus stacking from focus brackets. However, I've found it hard to confirm that's actually the case with current firmware on current bodies, and the argument appears to break down with 6k since there's not much difference between an 18 MP 6k post-focus frame and a 20 MP frame from a focus bracket. If stacking from brackets is, in fact, not supported a better explanation may be there hasn't been a business case to expand stacking support beyond what was implemented for the G80.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
1,752
Location
Charente Maritime, western France
Real Name
Roddy
Glad I was not excited about the focus stacking feature then, and only intrigued. I'll knock that feature off my list of things to look at when I get to see a G100 in the flesh - or a G120 if Panasonic wake up and change their production schedule to accommodate my desires :D
 

RAH

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
1,544
Location
New Hampshire
Real Name
Rich
Glad I was not excited about the focus stacking feature then, and only intrigued. I'll knock that feature off my list of things to look at when I get to see a G100 in the flesh - or a G120 if Panasonic wake up and change their production schedule to accommodate my desires :D
Gee, I thought it was useful, so I'd say don't be too quick to knock it off the feature list. Consider the source - @archaeopteryx says that he "primarily work with macro stacks in the range of 100-300 frames." Admirable and I'm sure the results are excellent, but is that the type of DOF effort you usually make, Roddy? It certainly isn't what I would do even just using focus bracketing. I forget how many images get stacked with the automated focus stacking, but it definitely does increase the resulting DOF on macro shots. So, as I said, I found it useful.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
1,752
Location
Charente Maritime, western France
Real Name
Roddy
Gee, I thought it was useful, so I'd say don't be too quick to knock it off the feature list. Consider the source - @archaeopteryx says that he "primarily work with macro stacks in the range of 100-300 frames." Admirable and I'm sure the results are excellent, but is that the type of DOF effort you usually make, Roddy? It certainly isn't what I would do even just using focus bracketing. I forget how many images get stacked with the automated focus stacking, but it definitely does increase the resulting DOF on macro shots. So, as I said, I found it useful.
is this feature a 4K feature only, Rich, or something else like Olympus has in some of their bodies?
 

D7k1

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
Messages
2,726
Focus stacking works with 6K (18 Mpx). Focus bracketing works with JPEG and RAW. I find bracketing is better but then when you do something on a fast computer with lots of cores and memory everything is better, just like bacon.
 

RAH

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
1,544
Location
New Hampshire
Real Name
Rich
is this feature a 4K feature only, Rich, or something else like Olympus has in some of their bodies?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but if you're asking if it crops the results somewhat, yes, it does (but not a lot). Meanwhile, I checked and it stacks 8 shots with focus stacking. To be honest, that's probably about as many as I would use with just focus bracketing, so to me the stacking can be pretty useful to add some DOF to my macro shots.

Edit: if you mean video, I wouldn't know video if it snuck up and bit me in the butt. I'm talking still images.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
1,752
Location
Charente Maritime, western France
Real Name
Roddy
I'm talking stills to, I do not do video at all either :)

I'm now as confused as you are about the focus stacking in the G100 - whether it is a 4K feature that uses images from the Post Focus feature which one then stacks outside the camera, or whether it is a feature of its own that it stacks full size images in-camera. Sigh
 

RAH

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
1,544
Location
New Hampshire
Real Name
Rich
I think that any camera that talks about "4K" and "6K" must be talking about video, not stills. So if you want a STILL camera that does focus stacking, it probably is NOT a camera that says it uses stacking with some 4K thingie. IMHO. I suppose it might use some video feature to drive its still focus stacking, but it sounds kind of odd. Maybe you could find a YouTube video on the camera.
 

D7k1

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
Messages
2,726
The G9 has both focus bracketing and focus stacking. Yes you can focus stack using the 6k function. All of the Panasonic 4k cameras can use 4K to focus stack.
 

RAH

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
1,544
Location
New Hampshire
Real Name
Rich
Yes you can focus stack using the 6k function. All of the Panasonic 4k cameras can use 4K to focus stack.
Does that mean that it uses successive video frames from a video to stack into a still image? If so, I wouldn't think it would be as good as STILL frames that get stacked into a STILL image.
 

11GTCS

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
186
Does that mean that it uses successive video frames from a video to stack into a still image? If so, I wouldn't think it would be as good as STILL frames that get stacked into a STILL image.
It effectively shoots a quick video and stacks the images, yes. There’s no reason why the quality would be worse than advertised (6k photo stack being 18mp). It’s not 20, but it’s not worse than if you fired off a burst with an 18mp sensor and honestly, I doubt most people would notice the gap between that and 20 at anything approaching normal picture sizes
 
Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Copyright © 2009-2019 Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom