Royally Plssed Off!

Bidkev

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,111
Location
Brisbane Australia from Blackpool UK 23yrs ago
Went into the city today as there was the annual Horajuku Walk. Comprised mostly of teens early 20's they're usually a fun bunch of exhibitionists who enjoy having their photos taken. Not an easy shoot with all the milling around and "snappers" stepping in front of you as you take the shot and some stood in shade and some in full sun..........but I digress from my angst, or should that be anger?

I always say thank you when I take a shot and hand them a card saying that if they wait a few days till I process, if they see their image on my web site to shoot me an email and I'll send 'em a digital copy. I'd shot a girl earlier and she was cool, but the 2nd shot of her had her alongside another participant.................that participant literally lost it! "Did you ask my permission!!!??? Delete it please". The please being nowhere near indicative of the nature of her rant. I tried explaining "Public Domain" to no avail, saying that I wasn't shooting her per so, but the girl that I'd shot earlier. Anyways I deleted it to avoid any further "crap" but she insisted on seeing it to which I replied, "you can't see it if I've deleted it" I had 3 combos slung so I showed her all the images on the combo I'd taken it with and she then said, "I want to see what's on the other cameras". I said to myself, "Feck this lunacy" and simply walked.

IRONY........................she followed me with her iphone saying, "This is going on youtube you pervert, you have no right to take my picture" I felt like saying "you idiot, you've just done what you accused me of doing" but I knew that would be lost on her. She'd had her moment of fame in a crowded square, albeit at my expense, but I simply didn't want to hang around any longer. There's always one, with the loudest voice needing to be heard, and it's sad, that up until then, what was a really enjoyable couple of hours for those wanting to have their photos taken, was spoiled by such an idiot.

I noticed that earlier she hadn't objected to any other younger spectators taking her image.................whether it's my age, Marine cropped hair, or the tattoos, is anyone's guess, but she created such a fuss that other amateur photographers, who had followed this event for years, also left, with one simply passing by, tapping me on the shoulder with a "don't worry about it mate, they ain't worth it" The sad bit is, the best part of them ARE worth it. Most still do respect elders, it's just the "precious" that "blot the landscape"
 

exakta

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
545
Reminds me of a story.

About 40 years ago after shooting a concert, one band member came up and demanded my film. I told him I had already asked the bandleader for permission and he had given it. Rather than get into a fistfight (we were both rather intoxicated), I gave him a partially exposed roll from my camera and went home with the rest of the film.

About 5 years ago, I heard from this musician's manager that they had seen two of the shots I had taken on a web page and were interested in using it for the cover of a CD reissue on a small UK label. I had the negatives scanned (at the record company's expense) and asked for 20 CDs as payment. I got the photo credit and gave away the CDs to my own musician friends.

Not long after that I ran into that musician at a concert and asked if he remembered asking me for the film. To my surprise he said he did remember. I left it at that, water under the bridge.

FWIW, here's the cover.

51%2BA1RUengL.jpg
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81XP10baC7L._SL1258_.jpg
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archaeopteryx

Gambian sidling bush
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
1,074
Didn't we do this thread already 13 months ago? Though I agree the message could have been communicated more effectively, some curiosity as to how many times it has to be delivered before it's heard seems reasonable.

[...] I had 3 combos slung [...] whether it's my age [...] the best part of them ARE worth it
Worth what, exactly? Some searching suggests they've since been deleted but, based on comments in certain of your previous posts, it would be easy to take this iteration of the complaint as being upset someone correctly inferred the intention and had the stones to call it out, even though doing so came at the expense of how others viewed her. I'm also curious over the apparent expectation the actions of an older male with three ILCs should be taken the same way as what appears likely to have been various mixed-gender, younger, individuals using phones casually. While Australian fair use law may not distinguish between the two and conventions of social acceptability often aren't entirely rational, it seems entirely unsurprising an effort to explain how someone's feelings should align with the law was unsuccessful.

I'm inclined to note another Australian woman's observations on male intent and photographic risk:
Julia Jacklin said:
Considering the prevalence of digital harassment I would suggest, though the concern may be overwrought in this particular case, it has an entirely reasonable basis (La Trobe, The Australia Institute, Australia, Powell 2017). I would also suggest some critical thinking as to consent and respect. The usual approach is to obtain permission before taking photographs rather than presuming it's granted a priori and offering resistance when challenged. Stating intent to publish open access images online seems likely to be especially concerning to individuals who have been or are being stalked.
 

NCV

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
388
Location
Italy
Real Name
Nigel
Went into the city today as there was the annual Horajuku Walk. Comprised mostly of teens early 20's they're usually a fun bunch of exhibitionists who enjoy having their photos taken. Not an easy shoot with all the milling around and "snappers" stepping in front of you as you take the shot and some stood in shade and some in full sun..........but I digress from my angst, or should that be anger?

I always say thank you when I take a shot and hand them a card saying that if they wait a few days till I process, if they see their image on my web site to shoot me an email and I'll send 'em a digital copy. I'd shot a girl earlier and she was cool, but the 2nd shot of her had her alongside another participant.................that participant literally lost it! "Did you ask my permission!!!??? Delete it please". The please being nowhere near indicative of the nature of her rant. I tried explaining "Public Domain" to no avail, saying that I wasn't shooting her per so, but the girl that I'd shot earlier. Anyways I deleted it to avoid any further "crap" but she insisted on seeing it to which I replied, "you can't see it if I've deleted it" I had 3 combos slung so I showed her all the images on the combo I'd taken it with and she then said, "I want to see what's on the other cameras". I said to myself, "Feck this lunacy" and simply walked.

IRONY........................she followed me with her iphone saying, "This is going on youtube you pervert, you have no right to take my picture" I felt like saying "you idiot, you've just done what you accused me of doing" but I knew that would be lost on her. She'd had her moment of fame in a crowded square, albeit at my expense, but I simply didn't want to hang around any longer. There's always one, with the loudest voice needing to be heard, and it's sad, that up until then, what was a really enjoyable couple of hours for those wanting to have their photos taken, was spoiled by such an idiot.

I noticed that earlier she hadn't objected to any other younger spectators taking her image............… is just bad luck when you come across one of these beasts...whether it's my age, Marine cropped hair, or the tattoos, is anyone's guess, but she created such a fuss that other amateur photographers, who had followed this event for years, also left, with one simply passing by, tapping me on the shoulder with a "don't worry about it mate, they ain't worth it" The sad bit is, the best part of them ARE worth it. Most still do respect elders, it's just the "precious" that "blot the landscape"
There are some very screwed up people out there, it is just bad luck when you come across one of these neurotic beasts.

We are bombarded with tabloid paper horror stories, so I quess some of the neurosis rubs off. Just think of the ignorant mob in the UK during a moment of press fuelled anger who trashed a woman house because she had a brass plate with "Pediatrician" written next to her front door.
 

T N Args

Agent Photocateur
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
3,465
Location
Adelaide, Australia
Real Name
call me Arg
I think you are upset because you weren't ready for it.

Photographers at events, or in public in general, need to be fully prepared and half expecting that sort of thing to happen. If you are prepared, then you can deal with it calmly, and patiently, while holding your line. Not only will you get your outcomes, but you won't be emotional about it afterwards, but can reflect with some satisfaction about how well you handled the situation, that is kind of expected to happen on occasion.

You started off very well, but offering to delete your photos gives all the wrong messages: that you are guilty as charged, that they have all the right in the world to demand deleted photos and to inspect your cameras, and that you are a pervert violating their innocence.

Stay calm, stay firm, stay friendly, and if it doesn't fizzle out very quickly but the aggressor wants to escalate, offer to call the police and get this sorted. Some aggressors will think that's a great idea (until the police put them in their place), and some will back down because they secretly know you are right and they are just being obnoxious bullies.

cheers
 
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