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Reverse Macro Technology

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by ibbbo, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Hello!
    I'm reading a lot of interesting information on this forum. I'm newbie.... So there's my case. I have Oly E-pm1 with kit's lens M. Zuiko 14-42mm. I also have and adapter from Pentax K bayonet to micro 4/3. I'm trying to use the reverse macro technics. So, first i try to take a shot just while holding the lens upside down in front of the Oly. There's impossible. After this something come up in my mind and I put the Pentax K adapter, then again put the lens upside down in front of the camera and voila! The miracle is happening :)
    Now I'm looking for a reverse adapter from this Pentax K adapter - 37mm (this is written in front of M. Zuiko) to Pentax K bayonet. Is there any, because when I write it like that, nothing.... Or may be Pentax K has a diameter info (37,40,42,49.....mm) and if I write for example 37mm to 42mm it will show up in ebay for example? I tried to find such info for Pentax K bayonet, but with no success....

    PP: Sorry for my bad english :)
     
  2. veereshai

    veereshai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    777
    May 12, 2011
    Arlington, VA
    Okay, let me try to answer a few questions. Remember when you reverse the lens, the wide you are the higher the magnification. When a lens is reversed and you're shooting at 14mm, you get very high magnification and hence lower DOF. Which means that unless you get a way of controlling the aperture, you can't use it effectively. Also, there's a good chance that you might get dust on the back element of your lens as it's exposed.

    Instead, I'd urge you to try this:
    (i) Get generic (non-kenko) extension tubes for micro four thirds.
    (ii) Get a Pentax K lens (like 50mm) with manual aperture control for cheap.
    (iii) Mount the extension tubes and then the the K mount adapter and then mount the lens (NOT reversed) for macro work.

    The above setup is quite cheap and you get good control because of variable extension tubes and aperture control.
     
  3. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Yes, I'm looking for cheap alternative, due to extremely high prices of macro lenses... Is that matter how many tubes I should use or? I saw there's from one to 3-4 may be more?

    And What about Olympus Zuiko Digital 35 mm F/3.5 Lens with adapter for micro 4/3? Is it good or? What in general I must know to find proper legacy lens with MF, suitable for macro?
     
  4. veereshai

    veereshai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    777
    May 12, 2011
    Arlington, VA
    Matter of tubes comes down to the magnification you're trying to achieve with a lens. You can use the calculator and understand a bit more here:

    Macro Extension Tubes & Close-up Lenses


    I haven't used the Zuiko lens you're talking about so I'll not be able to give you an opinion on that :(. However, if you look around carefully, you'll get long adapted macro lenses for decent prices. I have seen (here in the US) a Canon FD 100mm F4 macro go for $70. Look for Canon FD / Minolta MD lenses as they cannot be adapted to the Canon EF mount and hence lower demand drives lower price.

    I hope someone else will pitch with an opinion for the lens you're looking at.


    EDIT: Do you have any decent telephoto lenses? You can try a good achromat (like the Marumi DHG achromat) on a telephoto for good working distance with decent magnification. You can see some work done by NC with his Nikon 75-240mm here:

    https://www.mu-43.com/f40/pen-e-pl1-cheap-thrills-4709/

    That's a good/light combo I like for on field work and the magnification is good enough.
     
  5. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    Why not use Pentax extension tubes on the other end of the adapter instead? Either method should produce the same results, but I would imagine the Pentax tubes could be easier to find?

    The more extension tubes you add the more light is lost, making it tougher to keep your shutter speed up (which is already a problem in Macro if you're stopping down to get greater DOF). Starting out with a proper 1:1 or 1:2 macro lens is always best, then adding extension tubes from there only when you need the extra close focus.

    Yes, the Zuiko Digital 35mm f/3.5 is a fabulously sharp lens, well-built, and very inexpensive. There is no reason not to go for it, unless you want a longer focal length for a greater working distance (ie, for easier lighting or distance from skitterish creatures). The shorter focal length actually makes it easier to steady your shot, even though it makes lighting tougher by keeping you really close to your subject. One nice thing about the 35mm is it's significantly more compact than longer macros (ie, like 90-105mm).

    Besides 4/3 (which has full compatibility with m4/3), if you're looking at other legacy lenses you just need to find one with all manual controls. That basically means one with an aperture ring and mechanical focus (no fly-by-wire focus, but if it's got a manual aperture ring there's almost no chance it'll have fly-by-wire focus - if it does then the aperture ring is probably also electronic and not manual, like that on the 4/3 Summilux).
     
  6. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    No I haven't yet. I'm try to learn so much things, but it's hard for me a little :D I saw this extension tubes/magnifiers, but I don't know for what they are... I mean for shorter distances only or something else?
    I must figure out the simpler and cheaper solution for getting a good macro.
    The suggestion with ext. tubes and Pentax K lens is may be good, but must take a closer look at this :)
     
  7. veereshai

    veereshai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    777
    May 12, 2011
    Arlington, VA
    Yep, ibbbo could go for K mount extension tubes without altering the results. But, I have seen micro four thirds extension tubes go pretty cheap. Not sure how expensive/inexpensive the K mount extension tubes are. Also, micro four thirds extension tubes will help if ibbbo plans to try those tubes on a different system of lenses.
     
  8. msatlas

    msatlas Mu-43 Regular

    52
    Feb 5, 2013
    Madison, WI
  9. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    As I read the responses, May need a little more to dig into learning about photography. Thank you very much for the comprehensive answer ... start out with further research lenses, macro lenses, etc.

    PP: Is there possible to use this macro/magnification glasses on my regular M. Zuiko kits lens?
     
  10. dwig

    dwig Mu-43 Top Veteran

    621
    Jun 26, 2010
    Key West FL
    The K-mount>m43 adapter can work for you as an extension tube. You need to add a revering ring made for Pentax K mount lenses. These are usually made in either 49mm or 52mm sizes. The size is the size of the male thread that fits the lens' filter thread. You would also need a 37mm>49mm or 37mm>52mm stepup ring (one made to put 49 or 52mm filters on you lens which takes 37mm filters).

    With the stepup ring screwed onto your lens, the revercing ring can then be attached and the whole package can then be reverse mounted on the K>m43 adapter.
     
  11. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Now I see on my adapter's package it says "42mm to m4/3(t)". So I supposed I need from 37mm>52mm and 52mm>42mm?
    I'm not sure is this technology good for my lenses due to the exposion of dust, scratches etc. But may be is good to have an equipment if needed. I make this photo "on legs" with the K-mount and lens in my hand in front of the camera:

    df0f3b027fcd9ad4fd21d02e8762ac99_610x0.

    And what about this sets of close-up lens +1, +2, +4, +10 .... Are they useful or may be useless?
     
  12. dwig

    dwig Mu-43 Top Veteran

    621
    Jun 26, 2010
    Key West FL
    NO!

    The "42mm" on the adapter's box implies that it is a "Pentax/m42 Thread Mount" to m43 adapter and not a "Pentax K-mount" adapter. The Pentax K-mount is a bayonet type mount, not a thread mount.

    If the adapter is actually a thread mount adapter you would need a Pentax/m42 thread mount reversing ring. These are almost always made to fit lenses with a 49mm filter thread. You would then need the 37mm>49mm filter adapter to allow the lens to accept the 49mm reversing ring.
     
  13. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I decide to try first with an extension tube. After that I'll add some close-up lens and finally a cheap second hand macro lenses with Manual focus and settings. I read that if you make a proper "mix" of tube, close-up lens and macro lens, you can achieve something really good.
    I'll write soon again here, to make up to date info about that. Thanks to everything :)
     
  14. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Extension tubes are good.

    I also like using two lenses face to face like a relay lens type setup.

    I'm biased against close-up lenses.
     
  15. slothead

    slothead Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 14, 2012
    Frederick, MD
    ibbbo, you probably have had your question answered already (I didn't read all the responses), but you should be able to find a reversing adapter for your Pentax lenses and then that can interface directly to your m43 adapter.

    And, by the way, I congratulate you on your excellent English!

    Good luck,
     
  16. Luke

    Luke Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 30, 2010
    Milwaukee, WI
    Luke
    I have some old Pentax m42 extension tubes if the OP needs them.
    I used them on my old Oly after using a m4/3 to m42 converter. In this photo, there is a super Takumar attached at the end. Usually the more ridiculous looking the macro set-up, the better the photos.....not necessarily in my case
    6066434779_8b07e4c436.
    macrorig-HDR by Lukinosity, on Flickr
     
  17. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Yes, the face, to face is good technic too. For close-up lens i read, that the smaller diameter they have, the less distortion of picture they made, but.... we will see eventually :)

    Hehe thank you! But i haven't a Pentax lenses, just an adapter. I've a shop for old lenses not so far from me, may be I will check it soon for something interesting.... or may be some legacy russian lenses :D

    Hahaha it's funny that an hour ago my friend tell me the same " Won't it be ugly and big and heavy to use a tube and lenses?! It will look so ridiculous..." But I just say "The bigger - the better" :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. dwig

    dwig Mu-43 Top Veteran

    621
    Jun 26, 2010
    Key West FL
    For the common Pentax lenses yes, but for the Oly kit zoom the OP has it's not very likely that one is made. The Oly kit lens doesn't use a filter size commonly used by Pentax normal lenses. Reversing lenses are generally only made to fit the manufacturer's (Pentax in this case) commonly used filter size. This is why the OP would also need a filter stepup ring.
     
  19. Grelton

    Grelton New to Mu-43

    6
    Nov 4, 2012
    São Paulo - Brazil
    Ibbbo

    Take a look:


    [ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwgbYaB2jqI"]How to use extension tubes - YouTube[/ame]
     
  20. ibbbo

    ibbbo Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Yes it looks pretty easy to use them, but I'm concerned about that my M.Zuiko 14-42mm doesn't have a manual aperture ring...it only has a manual focus ring, so it'll be more tricky to make a proper settings, but I won't give up. And other is that I must wait 4-5 weeks for my delivery (I shop from ebay's china seller so...)... it driving me crazy already :woohoo1: