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Returned New Cameras?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by MrDoug, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. MrDoug

    MrDoug Mu-43 Top Veteran

    985
    Sep 5, 2011
    Boise, Idaho
    What is the process and procedures when someone (me) and you purchases lets say a new Panny G3 from Amazon or B&H or any major vendor.. and we play with it for 5 or 6 days or longer and return it? we re-package almost exactly like it was shipped and ship it back and they give us full credit on the purchase.. (minus shipping etc) what happens to that camera? do they send it back to Panny or do they re-package the best they can and sell it as used? how do they recover? anybody know? just curious...:smile:
     
  2. krugorg

    krugorg Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 18, 2011
    Minnesota USA
    I think it depends on the vendor. Amazon (big volume, muscle) would return it to the manufacturer and I am guessing someone else would be able to purchase as a recertified unit. Some other retailers offer open box units, which seem to be these units that are returned near-mint/mint.
     
  3. MrDoug

    MrDoug Mu-43 Top Veteran

    985
    Sep 5, 2011
    Boise, Idaho
    Yes, I agree.. big volume and big muscle.. "take this camera back or we cut you off!" LOL.. that kinda thing. and they can do it.. LOL.. the others?
     
  4. shrimp123

    shrimp123 Mu-43 Regular

    35
    Oct 9, 2010
    side note : buy it from a recognized store :) even if it is a lil expensive.
     
  5. sinpig

    sinpig Mu-43 Regular

    163
    Sep 2, 2010
    Superior, WI
    I bought a Canon DSLR, the X-Mas before last. Try it out, test everything I could imagine in my limited photographic knowledge, came to the conclusion that it was just too bulky for me, so, I re-box the whole thing and send it back to Amazon.

    I believe they just sell them as open box item through their Warehouse Deals site, granted they're not defective and all parts are included. I received my full returned no questions asked.
     
  6. MrDoug

    MrDoug Mu-43 Top Veteran

    985
    Sep 5, 2011
    Boise, Idaho
    there is truth to that..no doubt...
     
  7. MrDoug

    MrDoug Mu-43 Top Veteran

    985
    Sep 5, 2011
    Boise, Idaho
    Oh.. on another note.. I recently and dumb me retuned a camera.. I forgot to return camera strap... still got full credit.. I did call them and advised them of the problem and retuned it.. they didn't even notice.. so the person that bought that camera I returned may be lacking a strap.. ??.. that is why I'm asking this question.. LOL
     
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  8. Hikari

    Hikari Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2010
    It is returned to the manufacturer. Some will be sold as refurbished, some will be used for warranty replacements. The US has the one of the highest return rates and is a problem. The return rate impacts the pricing. Unfortunately, if someone buys something and finds out it is not for them, they return it making the manufacturer/consumer share the costs.
     
  9. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    I wouldn't worry about it. Just check over the stuff you purchase.

    I think when Apple gets stuff back, this is the stuff they sell as refurbished. They check it over again, and sell it at a discount. I get most all my Apple stuff refurbed, and never had an issue. Did the same a lot with Canon cameras, too.
     
  10. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    You will always pay for it one way or another -- either a restock fee, or higher overall pricing. It's still better to have a liberal return policy, then no (or limited) options to return. I'd rather NOT have manufacturers have the upper hand again, where everything was caveat emptor before you buy, and then you were stuck with it.
     
  11. Hikari

    Hikari Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2010
    When did the manufacturers have the upper hand? If the product does not work, return it. But when you make a mistake, why should others pay for that? Why can't you just resell it and see if you can get your money back? Don't you believe in self-responsibility?
     
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  12. Canonista

    Canonista Mu-43 Top Veteran

    563
    Sep 3, 2011
    L.A.
    I recently bought a VF-2 from Amazon, and though it was packaged like new, there was a clear scratch on the side, and the plastic mount showed signs of use. I sent it back as I had paid for a new one. Fortunately, Amazon (as usual) took care of it immediately, but it made me think why someone would return a product in such condition, and whether Amazon (or any vendor) always resells a returned product like this if the packaging looked unopened. I guess it's Caveat Emptor.
     
  13. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I bought A GH2 from B&H and used it for a week but want very happy from portability factor. So I called them from Australia , got a return authorisation number and sent the camera back and guess what?I left my 8GB card inside. Anyway I phoned them but they were hardly concerned. That camera appeared on their used store section after few days with around 100 USD discount .
     
  14. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    You don't remember back in the day? 70s, early 80s. There weren't always "return policies" and there were larger restock fees. There also weren's easy secondary markets like today. I prefer today to back then.

    "Don't you believe in self-responsibility?" -- I'm not fond of ad hominem characterizations. I do indeed, but I don't see any reason to not allow liberal return policies. You have presented no real case to not allow return policies, and at the end of the day, it's all a philosophical discussion. Return policies are what we have today. Do you hear about a lot of people who's equipment seemed opened when they got it, or who's cameras failed due to being an open box item? Neither do I. They are rare.

    Like I said, I'll take a slightly higher price, or the risk of buying something that has already been used, to have a good return policy.
     
  15. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Yes, but you were able to return it. You weren't stuck with it.

    Also, damage could happen to a unit during manufacturing, and it could slip by QA. In a world without easy return policies, you would have to a) fight with the reseller for a refund (remember when refunds were, at bast, via check 30 days later?) or b) try to sell a damaged unit yourself. Does anyone else remember the days when you had to argue with the store, to convince them that you didn't break the unit yourself? This was fairly common before the internet.

    Wasn't returning it to Amazon and getting a new one much easier?
     
  16. Iansky

    Iansky Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 26, 2009
    The Cotswolds, UK
    Returns

    I work for a major manufacturer of white goods and we have a strict policy of what we call "Retail returns". We will only accept returned items from retailers that have a genuine "Manufacturers fault" and the store has exchanged it.

    If the store exchanges a product for a customer purely because the customer does not like it / want it, and it has been used then that item is the responsibility of the store and they must do with it as they see fit - under current regulations in the UK, that product unless there is a genuine "Manufacturers Fault" is the responsibility of the store not the manufacturer.

    This ruling helps stop people who buy, use for a week and return without a viable reason - there are those who do this and inturn it does affect manufacturers and retailers alike and ends up pushing up retail prices.

    The long and short of this is try before you buy and most retailers in the UK (those selling our products have in store demonstration areas where customers can do this) offer this. I know that camera shops (Independants) that I deal with allow customers to try the product to ensure fit / form /weight /controls / size and quality all meet their requirements.

    The best experience is always to buy from a reputable dealer rather than off the web (some web sites have sold seconds/returned as new), it is better to pay a little more and deal over the counter and try it in store than shoot blind and regret later because the item is not as offered.

    The choice is yours.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Thinking more about this, easy returns are really essential. I don't have a local dealer of many of the items I buy. For example, I don't have anyone near to me that sells the Panasonic 25/1.4, so I can't even try it out.

    Here's a story of my experience with two lenses: 45/1.8 and 25/1.4.

    I purchased the 45/1.8 very early -- one of the first buyers. Direct from Oly. After trying to work with it for several weeks, I gave up. It completely wouldn't focus about 10-20% of the time, which was unacceptable to me. This was after trying all the fixes that were talked about in this forum. Should I have just said "oh well, my loss" or passed a flawed lens off to someone else on the internet, taking a $50 hit, and now the new buyer doesn't even have a warranty on the lens (surprise -- warranties aren't transferable). So, I returned it and got a full refund.

    I was also researching the Panny 25/1.4, and read about the "rattlesnake" issue, etc. I really felt like I wanted this focal length and aperture, so I bought it, and the only reason I put down $600 for a "rattlesnake" lens is because I know I could return it. It was worth the time and return shipping fee to try out a lens that I should really like. Turns out, the issue isn't effecting me, so I'm keeping the lens.

    In both cases (the first where I couldn't have known about the problem, the second where I knew about a problem, but the risk was low because of the return policy) I was protected by that return policy. And, because of the policy, Panny made a sale. I wouldn't have bought the lens otherwise, so it was good for them. For Oly (I bought the 45 direct from them), they got a return, and they should have, for releasing a lens with a flaw.

    For these kinds of benefits, yes, I'm willing to accept an overall (what, $0.50, $1.00, $2.50? even $5.00) higher price on all the lenses I buy. Don't forget, it was internet selling that allows the price to come down to begin with.

    Easy returns is a must for on-line shopping, IMO, and I won't buy from a site without it.
     
  18. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    I've heard horror stories about people buying expensive items in Europe. Some countries laws allow returns, others only allow returns if the manufacturer recognizes the faulty product.

    The reason I bring this up is I just purchased a TV that has a few "quirks". There were several forums that had pages upon pages of people here in the US and Europe having the same issues with the TV. Some people in some countries couldn't return their TV's because the manufacturer said that the problem with the TV doesn't mean the TV is faulty, and that the retailers didn't have to take them back. I'm glad such laws don't exist in the US.

    I worked in retail for a long time. Many times we took products back even if it was the customer's fault or customer decision to buy a product and they not like the product. The biggest reason is because of repeat business. In many cases the only way to know whether the product is right or not is to buy it and play with it.

    The biggest issue with cameras is simply that no one is keeping many of the mirrorless cameras in stock. I have only seen an E-PM1 in stock anywhere. I have yet to see a G3, GH2, E-P3, or E-PL3 in stock to play with. All I can do at that point is buy it, play with it, and decide on whether I like it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    For better or for worse, we don't have a lot of local camera stores near me anymore.

    But even if we did, they wouldn't carry Ricoh, Panasonic or Olympus. The ones that are left are all Canikon, with a drop of Sony.

    I also disagree that just because it's a local store, they won't resell a returned product. I've known a number of small business owners. Some are very scrupulous, some are not. I'll take efficient markets and easy returns instead of replying on a random fact of what stores are near me, or having to make a long pilgrimage to a distant store. (though I could tell my wife we are moving, so we can live closer to a better camera store :)
     
  20. Iansky

    Iansky Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 26, 2009
    The Cotswolds, UK
    Hard decisions

    I fully appreciate that in the US there are probably many locations that do not offer camera stores offering what you want and as such you are driven down the internet route.

    Don't get me wrong, I also purchase from proven, reputable internet camera sellers and have been more than happy with the service and the product that was as stated. We do however suffer from those few unscrupulous ones that sell returned items as new and in some cases faulty ones that are not manufacturing faults!

    All manufacturers have a responsibility for any product they sell being "fit for purpose" and if they have a genuine manufacturing fault they must by law repair or replace depending on time from purchase to issue occuring and being reported.

    Some stores also offer sale or return process but returned items (unless genuine manufacturing faults) are then sold as "demo" units by the store at a reduced price - they cannot be sold as new!

    Unfortunately, we as consumers demand more and more and many buy without ensuring this is what they want/need knowing full well they can return it if they don't like it (I can understand this in areas where there are no stores to try before buying) but to do this as a mtter of course drives retailer profits down as they cannot sell non faulty returned items that have been used at full value so reducing their profit margins that are not very high to start with, this will only serve to drive the smaller independants out of business becuase they don't have the buying power to bulk buy at discount from manufacturers - a vicious circle.:frown: