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Returned my Epm1, need help with replacement

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by Crn3371, May 18, 2012.

  1. Crn3371

    Crn3371 Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    May 14, 2012
    I just sent my refurbed mini and VF2 back to Cameta for the date/time issue. Kind if disappointed that a known problem like that escaped the refurbishment process. That being said, I'm open to suggestions for a replacement. Between the date/time issue, and the reported ibis issues, I'm a little hesitant on getting another mini. Viewfinder is mandatory, so if it's another Pen it's going to have the Vf2 on it most of the time. I'm new to m43 (selling off my Canon gear) and my main criteria is size and weight (hence the mini purchase). Not a big fan of PP so everything I hear about the Oly jpegs sounds right up my alley. Thinking that I'd rather have a built in flash rather than having to remove the viewfinder in order to use flash. For that reason I'm leaning towards the Ep3. How much bigger than the mini is it? Significant, or not enough to matter? Logic tells me the Pansonic G3 is the best choice due to the fact that it has both a built in EVF and a flash, but Id rather go with the range finder styling as opposed to the faux slr styling. How's the Panasonic Gx1? Is the Panny accesory EVF comparable to the VF2? Any help and suggestions is welcome.
     
  2. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    The EP3 is a bit bigger. The EPM1 w/pancake can fit in loose pants easier than an EP3. If that isn't your aim, then there isn't much difference. Once you put on the VF2, it's out of the pants pocket anyway. EP3s are relatively affordable right now if you find a refurb, with no know issues that I'm aware of.
     
  3. troll

    troll Mu-43 Veteran

    224
    Jan 25, 2012
    If you need VF most of the time I'd say you're better off with G3, it's a good camera for $500. Pens with VF-2 aren't any smaller than G3/GH2, and they're flimsy. E-P3 for $580 is still quite expensive. If you really want Olympus consider E-PL2, you get a flash plus decent grip for $350. Then again, with VF-2 it'll cost more than G3 at the same size and weight, but with older sensor. If you don't absolutely need IBIS then Panasonic seems like a more reasonable choice.
     
  4. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    The E-P3 is a terrific camera. It's fast produces great color and if you like the PEN form factor it's a really great option. What about something like a G3? If you're going to have a PEN body and throw an EVF on it you may as well consider the G3 as they wouldn't be all that different size wise. The G3 has a better sensor than the PEN bodies, built-in EVF, Flash, flip out LCD and IMHO handles better than any of the PEN bodies do.

    As far as the Olympus color vs Panasonic color... with a few tweaks to the settings these are examples of Panasonic OOC JPEG color.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dixeyk/7222870688/" title="Pink Velvet by dixeyk, on Flickr"> 7222870688_da30d0cf2d_b. "723" height="1024" alt="Pink Velvet"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dixeyk/7179690552/" title="Sentry by dixeyk, on Flickr"> 7179690552_77edc5bc90_b. "683" height="1024" alt="Sentry"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dixeyk/7179696640/" title="Alien by dixeyk, on Flickr"> 7179696640_d5b9d76edb_b. "1024" height="678" alt="Alien"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dixeyk/6897223578/" title="Finally by dixeyk, on Flickr"> 6897223578_97a40757ec_b. "1024" height="768" alt="Finally"></a>
     
  5. Crn3371

    Crn3371 Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    May 14, 2012
    Logic keeps telling me that the G3 is the best option due to the built in flash and viewfinder. How do the G3 and GH2 compare? Similar size? I was seriously thinking of pairing a 14-150 to the mini for a single lens solution. I see that the GH2 is available in a kit with a 14-140. How is that combo? Still significantly smaller than a comparable dslr?
     
  6. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    14-140 is a big lens. 14-150 is not.

    The specs on the G3 are spot on, but I never bonded with the camera. It might just be a personal thing. Other g3 issue is inconsistent metering. I hear your pain though. Ive got the same - affordable with built in evf.
     
  7. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx Mu-43 Top Veteran

    995
    Dec 31, 2010
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    The GH2 + Panny 14-140 is large, at least in the m43 world. Very much a DSLR appearance with much stouter grip than G3. I was unable to get comfortable using heavier, larger lenses with the G3 and retired that camera immediately. Finally picked up a used GH2 just last week.
     
  8. Kelton

    Kelton Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Aug 13, 2011
    San Diego, CA
    My E-PM1 has the same date/time issue, but I haven't found it to be a huge problem for me. I just deal with it. I haven't noticed any IBIS issues. Hopefully, you find the camera that works best for you. I'm planning on getting a VF2 for my E-PM1. I believe the G3 would be the best bet for you. It's not that big at all and is surprisingly small in the hands, even for someone short like me.

    GL with finding your next camera, and do tell us what you decide on! :)

    The E-P3 is a great camera too. I was considering getting that, but I decided my money would best be spent on lens over bodies.
     
  9. Sammyboy

    Sammyboy m43 Pro

    Oct 26, 2010
    Steeler Country
    If you like those great Olympus jpeg's and want a camera with classic style, go for the E-P3.
     
  10. EP1-GF1

    EP1-GF1 Mu-43 Veteran

    312
    Apr 12, 2011
    If you liked the E-PM1 otherwise I would give it another go. The benefit of the Pens is you can take the EVF off and make them smaller if you need to - something that's not possible with a G3/GH2. I also much prefer the "what you see is what you get" screen preview on Olympus cameras too. I've had 3 Panasonics and they all have been more "What you see might be what you get, but it's a bit of an exposure lottery and you'll probably have to tweak a few things later on". :smile:

    Something else you might consider if you were looking at the 14-150mm lens is one of the "old" E-PL1 14-150mm kits that are still for sale. Although I have an E-P3 I have just ordered this old kit myself because it was cheaper than buying the lens alone. I'm in the UK and the kit is coming from Germany so things may be different over there.

    The E-PL1 has a built in flash (which can be bounced), it takes the VF-2 or 3, and seems to be capable of producing some beautifully sharp and colourful pictures. See here here and here

    The screen won't be anything like the one on the E-PM1, let alone the OLED screen on the E-P3 but if you mostly going to use a VF-2 maybe that doesn't matter. It won't focus as quickly as the newer cameras either, but from what I've read it's still reasonable with the faster lenses.

    And if it's "free" with the lens it can keep you going for a while.
     
  11. Crn3371

    Crn3371 Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    May 14, 2012
    I notice that Epl2 kits can be had fairly cheap. How does this older Pen measure up against the newer offerings?
     
  12. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Generations are mostly as follows. If someone adds a correction, I'd be happy to update.

    EP1 (mid 2009) -- first one. 12MP sensor. Fun camera, but it's slow in operation, low res LCD, no EVF option. No built in flash. But it can get the job done if you treat it right. Still takes good pics. No manual controls in movie mode. Can go down to ISO100 (my, how old fashioned nowadays, sadly). No direct record movie button. Had to move mode dial to "movie" Two dial control (thumb dial and jog dial)

    EP2 (late 2009) -- second gen. Same 12MP sensor and same body style of EP1, but can take the VF2 (all pens after the EP2 can take the VF2). EP2 gives manual control in movie mode. Still, slow operation and low res LCD. Still no built in flash. No direct record movie button. Had to move mode dial to "movie." Two dial control (thumb dial and jog dial)

    EPL1 (early 2010) -- second gen along with the EP2. Same 12MP sensor, though the EPL1 is a little tweaked (weaker AA filter than the EP1 or EP2). Lost both dials in favor of button controllers. First pen with a button dedicated to "manual focus assist." EP1 and 2 did not have this. EPL1 does not give manual movie control, and max shutter speed of 1/2000 (ugh). Low res LCD, slow operation, has an EVF option. Has built in flash. Bouncable. Last Pen (at least to date) with ISO100 :(. Introduced Direct Record movie button for the Pen line. No auto orientation sensor to right your portrait pictures. (There's also an EPL1s sold in Japan, it usd the BLS5 battery and had the new 14-42 MSC lens. Nothing else new). For the looks of the EPL1 you either hate or you, well not love it, but you put up with it ;) Still seems for sale at a very cheap price. Either they made a ton of them, or they are continuing to make them as the "gateway drug" into m43.

    EPL2 (early 2011) -- Generation 2B??. Faster operation and AF. Max shutter speed of 1/4000 (yeah!) Still the same 12MP sensor. Menus were improved. Looks and handling are good. Re-introduced a single job dial. higher res LCD (460K dots instead of 230K on the previous pens). Built in flash (can't remember if you can bounce it). Built in grip. Some nice body colors. I think min ISO is 200, and it might have given manual movie control. No auto orientation sensor to right your portrait pictures. Revised accessory port still takes the EVF2, but also could take macro lights, mic jack and penpal. Also released with a new gen 2 kit lens -- MSC or "movie and stills compatible" faster and quieter then gen 1. (first three pens had a poorer, first gen 14-42). If you were to get a camera with a kit lens, I would be tempted to not get anything before EPL2. Some owners reported a "red dot issue" where red dots would appear if you shot into a real strong light source (such as the sun). Not all cameras exhibited this. It's a good camera, but just a little slow compared to...

    EP3, EPM1 and EPL3 (mid 2011) -- Third gen. Same 12MP sensor, but MUCH MUCH improved speed of operations for all three. First Pens with 1080 movie recording with AVCHD option. Also, the EPM1 and EPL3 have a redesigned shutter, which is much faster (up to 5fps with IBIS off). Much improved menus and white balance. Speed of focus is blazing. New kit lens (MSC mkii) Great cameras, but still with the sensor from the EP1 (though the AA filter is weakened from the EP1 and EP2). EP3 has first touch screen (but not tilt) in the pen line, EPL3 has first tilt screen (but not touch). EP3 has a built-in flash, EPM1 and EPL3 have mini add-on flashes. EPM1 and EPL3 are the smallest pens. EP1, 2 and 3 are basically the same body. Some EPM1s have had an IBIS issue, and some a date/time issue. Not all the EPM1s have them, and Oly can repair. I've not heard of any issues with EPL3 or EP3.

    All Pens before the OMD EM5 can use the same batteries. This is, IMO, a wonderful thing Oly does (as opposed to Panny, where every new camera seems to have a new, pricey batter). BLS1 or BLS5. At first, the BLS5 (I think it released with the EPL2) seemed like it wasn't compatible with the BLS1 cameras or chargers, but many people have successful mixed and matched.

    OMD EM5 (spring 2012) -- new sensor, better DR and high ISO noise. Built in VF and a bunch of other goodies. Tilt and touch screen. New battery (not compatible with the other Pens). Much improved IBIS, stabilized VF, weather sealing, etc. etc.

    I suppose this should be turned into a spreadsheet/grid, or someone already has.

    You can also check out DPR, and pick all the models for side-by-side comparison: http://www.dpreview.com/products/co...s=oly_epl3&products=oly_epm1&products=oly_em5
     
  13. Kelton

    Kelton Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Aug 13, 2011
    San Diego, CA
    I know that feeling. I had a Canon S95 and it always saturated my photos and made them look really nice on the LCD. When I put them on my computer, they were horribly undersaturated and bland.
     
  14. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    Really comes down to whether or not you want a PEN style camera. I went from an E-PM1 to and E-P3 and ended up with a GH2. I wouldn't go back. Everyone is different. I think when it comes right down to it you won't find the differences in IQ to be that significant. It comes down to what features you want/need. For me the terrific handling of the G/GH series cameras won the day. I find them so superior to the PEN cameras in that respect that I cannot imagine going back. It's little stuff like the clickable thumbwheel and the placement of buttons right where you need them. It may not seem like a big deal to everyone but for me it made all the difference in the world. for other folks it might be IBIS or default color. If you like the PENs, I'd say stick with them. If you're open to considering a G3 or other G/GH series then see if you can go someplace and handle one.
     
  15. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    IQ wise I think you'll find them all very similar. Some folks point to the weaker AA filters on the E-PL1 as giving it the sharpest images. I've had the E-P1, E-PL1, E-PL2, E-PM1 and E-P3 and to be honest I doubt I'd be able to tell any of the images apart. I think the E-PL2 is a nice camera, a lot more comfortable than the newer smaller bodies and a heck of a bargain. Of the ones I have had the E-P1 and E-P3 were my favorites. The only one I kept was the E-P1.