Replacement for LX100

tkbslc

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While it would be nice, it seems they're leaning on the 1" sensor for this market with the LX10 and ZS200.
If that is true, I hope they release an LX20 with a viewfinder. We are talking 2.2x vs 2.7x crop, so not like night and day or anything comparing LX10 vs LX100. Maybe half a stop at the highest ISOs noise difference is all.
 

davidzvi

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I hope I'm wrong, but ....

An LX20 would be easy, replace the mode dial with SS and change the other to EV. Add the EVF from the ZS200 and decide between a smaller tilting or larger fixed LCD. It would be a nice tighter little package.
 

Turbofrog

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If that is true, I hope they release an LX20 with a viewfinder. We are talking 2.2x vs 2.7x crop, so not like night and day or anything comparing LX10 vs LX100. Maybe half a stop at the highest ISOs noise difference is all.
The main thing to remember with the LX100 is that is has a much more gradual aperture fall off than every other camera it competes with, and it's faster to begin with. The fact that it's in front of a bigger sensor only helps the issue.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX10/LX15 Review

The G7X is the outlier here, but the LX10 and RX100 III/IV/V are basically f2.8 constant cameras that happen to have a wider aperture chucked on to the first few millimeters.

The sensor on the LX100 happens to be an older one that isn't really up to snuff when cropped down further, but if it was put in front of a modern AA-less 20MP sensor, I think it could deliver really good results that would be hard to match with the 1" cameras.
 

tkbslc

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That is true, but lx100 also pretty weak in terms of sharpness. Everything is a tradeoff.

But, the aperture falloff is one reason I went with Canon G7X II over LX10 (or RX100). The LX10 is faster at 24mm end and that's it. By 27mm the G7X is faster and stays there until about 55mm where it tops out at f2.8 for the rest of the range. At 35mm, the G7X is nearly a stop faster. It pretty much matches the LX100 through the range aperture wise (while having 50% more reach) meaning it's back to that 1/2 stop between 2.2 and 2.7x crop.
 

Turbofrog

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That is true, but lx100 also pretty weak in terms of sharpness. Everything is a tradeoff.

But, the aperture falloff is one reason I went with Canon G7X II over LX10 (or RX100). The LX10 is faster at 24mm end and that's it. By 27mm the G7X is faster and stays there until about 55mm where it tops out at f2.8 for the rest of the range. At 35mm, the G7X is nearly a stop faster.
I don't know, in terms of sharpness the LX100 lens actually seems very good. In DPReview's little lens comparator, tool, it performs very well: better in the corners than the RX100 or the G7X, and only a bit behind the RX100 in the center at the wide end. It mostly seems like it is let down by its low-resolution sensor with an AA-filter.

The 1" sensor gets downsampled by almost half when comparing to the LX100, so the images are almost always going to look sharper as a result.
 

Turbofrog

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I see a lot of really soft shots posted from the LX100, but I haven't spent that much time looking at it since lauch. Maybe it's AF then?
I think it was super-bad JPEG processing. I found that era of Panasonic products (of which my GX7 is one) to have really mushy NR / sharpening algorithms.

Then again, I still haven't met a JPEG that I like. I much prefer grain and detail like a straight RAW conversion with no edits, and no one seems to offer JPEGs like that.
 

spacecreature

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I am getting the LX100 next month, is that dumb? I'm tired of waiting for the LX200 (even if they announce it next month it might take a few more months before its available right? I kinda need it soon for a project ) and the LX10 lacks a hot shoe which I need. The competition is also underwhelming like the new iteration if Gx1 which was hoping would be more interesting . Fuji's x100F is nice but has a fixed lens, and the conversion lenses are expensive. The price of the Panasonic seems good now and you often get a bunch of free stuff with the cam.

I dont want to start another thread. Just a quick question to those who have it. What variable ND filter works on it and wouldnt interfere with the lens retraction mechanism.
 

davidzvi

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I am getting the LX100 next month, is that dumb? I'm tired of waiting for the LX200 (even if they announce it next month it might take a few more months before its available right? I kinda need it soon for a project ) and the LX10 lacks a hot shoe which I need. The competition is also underwhelming like the new iteration if Gx1 which was hoping would be more interesting . Fuji's x100F is nice but has a fixed lens, and the conversion lenses are expensive. The price of the Panasonic seems good now and you often get a bunch of free stuff with the cam.

I dont want to start another thread. Just a quick question to those who have it. What variable ND filter works on it and wouldnt interfere with the lens retraction mechanism.
Not dumb if it does what you need. If you know that you'll often have a filter on it make sure to get and aftermarket auto lens cap. I personally preferred the smaller form factor of the Panasonic cap, but I'm pretty it won't close all the way with a filter.
OEM
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


Aftermarket
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 

pdk42

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I am getting the LX100 next month, is that dumb? I'm tired of waiting for the LX200 (even if they announce it next month it might take a few more months before its available right? I kinda need it soon for a project ) and the LX10 lacks a hot shoe which I need. The competition is also underwhelming like the new iteration if Gx1 which was hoping would be more interesting . Fuji's x100F is nice but has a fixed lens, and the conversion lenses are expensive. The price of the Panasonic seems good now and you often get a bunch of free stuff with the cam.

I dont want to start another thread. Just a quick question to those who have it. What variable ND filter works on it and wouldnt interfere with the lens retraction mechanism.
I bought a used LX100 a couple of months ago. It was absolutely mint and seemed hardly used at all. I loved the size and the handling for such a compact camera. The IQ was pretty good too - all-in-all, I was pretty pleased with myself and thought that I'd snagged a real bargain. But that was when I was taking shots around the house. Once I went taking shots outdoors, I rapidly realised that I'd bought a lemon!

I found that 75% of images taken of distant objects (landscapes, cityscapes etc) were completely blurred. It would generally focus fine on objects less than a few metres away but on things further away, it would more often than not completely miss the focus - by a country mile. I tried all the focus modes available (including MF !!!), tried IBIS on, IBIS off, tripods, ... Basically, the camera just sometimes produced mush. Other people have noticed this too (e.g. Steve Huff and Robin Wong both noticed it). I eventually off-loaded it.

Many other people seem really happy with their copies - so I'm guessing it's some sort of defect. So, my recommendation would be to make sure you buy from somewhere with a good return policy.
 

spacecreature

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Not dumb if it does what you need. If you know that you'll often have a filter on it make sure to get and aftermarket auto lens cap. I personally preferred the smaller form factor of the Panasonic cap, but I'm pretty it won't close all the way with a filter.
OEM
View attachment 618384

Aftermarket
View attachment 618385

You mean if you put a filter on it, the lens will not retract back in properly and give errors? Thats why I am asking what brands would work, coz some are thinner then others maybe and they might work? Or you mean they all work but then you wont be able to put the cap back on?

I bought a used LX100 a couple of months ago. It was absolutely mint and seemed hardly used at all. I loved the size and the handling for such a compact camera. The IQ was pretty good too - all-in-all, I was pretty pleased with myself and thought that I'd snagged a real bargain. But that was when I was taking shots around the house. Once I went taking shots outdoors, I rapidly realised that I'd bought a lemon!

I found that 75% of images taken of distant objects (landscapes, cityscapes etc) were completely blurred. It would generally focus fine on objects less than a few metres away but on things further away, it would more often than not completely miss the focus - by a country mile. I tried all the focus modes available (including MF !!!), tried IBIS on, IBIS off, tripods, ... Basically, the camera just sometimes produced mush. Other people have noticed this too (e.g. Steve Huff and Robin Wong both noticed it). I eventually off-loaded it.

Many other people seem really happy with their copies - so I'm guessing it's some sort of defect. So, my recommendation would be to make sure you buy from somewhere with a good return policy.
That's why I never buy used:) Coz they are obviously sending it away for a reason, and it is usually not a good one. My problem is they don't sell them in my country, so a friend will buy it for me from the US and give it to me when he comes to visit. If its defective I will probably be stuck with it coz it will be hard to return it :(
Anyway I think it has a setting somewhere where you decide if you want to shoot stuff up close or further away like landscapes, most lenses dont do both equally well , some are designed for optimum performance in one category . So there might be a option hidden somewhere in the menu that you need to tweak? Usually, I always use the smallest focus point, focus and recompose also. That's usually the only way that works for me. Otherwise there is always something wrong.

PS: I didn't know you couldn't manually zoom in and out!
 

pdk42

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Anyway I think it has a setting somewhere where you decide if you want to shoot stuff up close or further away like landscapes, most lenses dont do both equally well , some are designed for optimum performance in one category . So there might be a option hidden somewhere in the menu that you need to tweak? Usually, I always use the smallest focus point, focus and recompose also. That's usually the only way that works for me. Otherwise there is always something wrong.
I'm a very experienced photographer and have used a lot of cameras. I also spend time with any camera I own in order to understand EXACTLY how to configure it. I can promise you that if there was a setting somewhere that would have made the LX100 I had work properly I would have found it. I was desperate for it to work! I tried ALL the focus modes, including the option to have a small point that would zoom in when the focus button was pressed - but it didn't help.

It's the first camera I've ever owned where I failed to get sharp shots of basic static landscape scenes reliably. My experience is not a one off either. Do a Google for LX100 focus issues and see what you find. The usual reviews are gushing about the camera but there are plenty of people who had the same experience as me. Read the Steve Huff review in particular:

When I shot landscapes at infinity focus with the LX100, the details were mush, even at base ISO. I took several shots and it was always the same. So not sure if I had a defect or if this was a camera issue.
What's frustrating though is that it's not a 100% "always fail" issue. When it did focus for me I was very pleased with the results. I think there is some tendency to this behaviour and TBH it's sort of soured me to Panasonic compact cameras.
 

davidzvi

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You mean if you put a filter on it, the lens will not retract back in properly and give errors? Thats why I am asking what brands would work, coz some are thinner then others maybe and they might work? Or you mean they all work but then you wont be able to put the cap back on?......
I mean when the lens retracts, which it has no problem doing, there isn't enough room between the front of the filter on lens and the back of the OEM autocap for the autocap to close all the way.
 

spacecreature

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Was wondering also about the dust on sensor issue, if it's real or over exaggerated?



I'm a very experienced photographer and have used a lot of cameras. I also spend time with any camera I own in order to understand EXACTLY how to configure it. I can promise you that if there was a setting somewhere that would have made the LX100 I had work properly I would have found it. I was desperate for it to work! I tried ALL the focus modes, including the option to have a small point that would zoom in when the focus button was pressed - but it didn't help.

It's the first camera I've ever owned where I failed to get sharp shots of basic static landscape scenes reliably. My experience is not a one off either. Do a Google for LX100 focus issues and see what you find. The usual reviews are gushing about the camera but there are plenty of people who had the same experience as me. Read the Steve Huff review in particular:



What's frustrating though is that it's not a 100% "always fail" issue. When it did focus for me I was very pleased with the results. I think there is some tendency to this behaviour and TBH it's sort of soured me to Panasonic compact cameras.
That's unfortunate. Like you said, apparently it was not just your copy that was bad (coz that's my initial thought). The fuji x100f is the opposite, it's good for landscapes and bad for portraits and close ups.
In my case I will be using it for closer subjects with the landscape behind as a far background so it shouldn't be a problem. But thanks for sharing that info. And maybe some extra sharpening in post should help also :)

I mean when the lens retracts, which it has no problem doing, there isn't enough room between the front of the filter on lens and the back of the OEM autocap for the autocap to close all the way.
Ok thanks. I guess one can just forego the cap altogether, if you are using a filter and you place your cam in a small bag.
 

tino84

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I had tz100 and gx80, when was active “diffraction compensation”, quite all my jpegs resulted very soft I remember..
 

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