Really disappointed with my new E-M10IV

bkspero

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Regarding the cost of dumbing down...I first bought an EM10/ii just to see what it was like to use a camera instead of my phone. I loved it. The sold feel. Many features. Customizable controls. The choice of inexpensive prime lenses. Enough to want a 2nd camera so I could use 2 different lenses without having to change in the field. So I bought an EM10/iii. The first of the dumbed down versions. Returned it and bought a 2nd EM10/ii body. Over time I also bought a 45mm/F1.8, 2 plastic fantastic 40-150mm zooms (dropped and broke one), an EZ 14-42 mm kit zoom, a PL 20mm/F1.7, and a PL 14mm/f2.5 lens. Soon after I bought a 75-300mm zoom. All because of how impressed I was with my first EM10/ii.

A few months later it was an EM1/ii....then a 300mm/f4 Pro lens...and a 12-40mm/f2.8 lens. Again, all started by my good experience with my first EM10/ii. I still use the EM10/ii's for about half of my photos.

If that first camera had been an EM10/iii (or based on what I am reading here, an EM10/iv), I probably would have kept it, but I think I would have gotten bored with it and lost interest in camera based photography...and Olympus/OMDS would have lost the extra sales.
 

pake

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In regard to your audio-less videos, I assume you watched them on the camera as well to confirm? Sometimes there can be a codec issue on desktops, resulting in a lack of playback of either video or audio. Probably a long shot, but I just didn’t want you to trash them in case maybe there was a software issue at play.
Yep. No audio on camera either. 100% sure the mic is broken. The videos had audio until they didn't anymore. Something happened during first days of August.


No idea if this is the case with the E-M10 series but on some models, like my E-M1.1 for example, you can return the AF to center by pressing and holding the OK button (that is when you are already in the screen to move the AF point around; you still have to get there first). This works even on cameras that have a HP setting and is set for a different point.

I had thought this was the case for all models, but I found out on my recently acquired E-PM2 that this is not the case as it doesn't work on that one. Let us know how it works on the E-M10.4.
Yep. That works with E-M10s as well. But it's not as quick as the assigned button. And it won't change the box type either like the HP does. So if I'm using a 3x3 grid on top left corner and want to switch to smallest box in center, I cannot do it in a fraction of a second like with the HP assigned button.


Are you sure the "mic' is broken- are you recording with an external mic- if so you might have to put the "power on" setting for external mics w/o power (non batt powered)?
100% sure. No external mics.

In addition to the suggestions regarding audio formats and power to an external mic, if the mic is broken but the rest of the camera is fine, an external microphone may be the cheap answer and let you send back the M10 that's clearly disappointed you.
External mic isn't an option. I'm capturing moments/memories as they happen - there is no time to start meddling around with external gear when our puppy does something you want to record.

@pake I can’t deny that this does seem to be a big backwards step for your use case. I’m not sure about your findings on the quality vs your E-M1 Mark III though, it would be good to hear more about that after you do further comparison.

My use case for the E-M10 Mark IV is different though: small lightweight body for use with primes and small zooms when out with the family and my E-M1 Mark III would be overkill.

For me the improvements in sensor, massively better face detect, and better ergonomics without noticeable increase in size are significant. And although I too miss the custom modes, I’d like at least one just to be able to return to a know baseline, I find myself making more use of the SCN dial position for quick adjustment to suit my subject. But this is for less serious work so appreciate it may not be a good solution for other needs.

At the end of the day I can see why they needed to differentiate the product lines more but I do feel they have gone a bit too far in some areas. I think I’m really hoping for an E-M5 Mark IV with better build (robust thumb grip and did somebody say PD Capture compatible base plate?), the latest face recognition, more accessible C2 and C3 modes and USB C. The icing on the cake would be a hybrid screen that can tilt and swivel.
E-M5III, not E-M1III. For me the E-M1 is an overkill too as I feel it's too heavy. The size is in the full frame territory already and if I wanted such a big camera, I'd buy a full frame with tiny primes and crop the images.

To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy with an E-M5IV with reliable animal eye AF (Olympus cameras tend to focus on noses instead of eyes) and a screen that tilts upwards instantly. That's it. Nothing else needed. I'd even pay $2000/2000€ for it. I'm not asking for the moon from the sky.


I'm pretty sure I will keep the E-M10IV - at least for now. I need to test it properly for macro work before I give up on it. It will be my 2nd camera on Sunday as I have a gala event to photograph. We'll see how it delivers. I'm sure it'll do better than the old mk2 would.
 

Ghostbuggy

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Not really about the E-M10 IV, but your E-M5: I'm also sort of surprised about the fact that "Pro" Service isn't available for the Mark III, it was for the Mark II, in fact you could purchase the 3-year warranty extension for around 100€ and activate it for the Mk II.

However you might still want to contact OMDS Europe through normal, non-pro warranty service, they usually have a good reputation when it comes to this. Needless to say you'd be without your camera for a while... you could buy a 2nd hand body and resell that one once your actual camera comes back from service. Although that's expensive up front, but in the end cheaper than renting a camera for a few weeks.
 

pake

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Not really about the E-M10 IV, but your E-M5: I'm also sort of surprised about the fact that "Pro" Service isn't available for the Mark III, it was for the Mark II, in fact you could purchase the 3-year warranty extension for around 100€ and activate it for the Mk II.

However you might still want to contact OMDS Europe through normal, non-pro warranty service, they usually have a good reputation when it comes to this. Needless to say you'd be without your camera for a while... you could buy a 2nd hand body and resell that one once your actual camera comes back from service. Although that's expensive up front, but in the end cheaper than renting a camera for a few weeks.
Yep, I will of course contact OMDS for repairs once my shooting schedule allows me to be without my main camera for 3-4 weeks. I thought about buying one used and then selling it later but knowing me too well means I wouldn't sell it after all (I'm too obsessed with "backups"). :D
 
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I’ve been thinking for a while to bring back an em10.ii or em5.ii in my m43 kit, as a general purpose backup body.

the em10 line took a direction I don’t like from the third iteration, the em5.iii is too expensive as a 2nd/3rd body, the em1.iii is relatively too expensive as an upgrade for my em1.ii. Wouldn’t bring enough to my table. I feel like i have no clear upgrade path, would rather secure a “safe” backup if something happens to my m43 kit.


end of the day i keep postponing, as my photo money always ends somewhere else … but the idea is still there
 
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I think I would have gotten bored with it and lost interest in camera based photography...and Olympus/OMDS would have lost the extra sales.
Totally agree. Olympus suicided by dumbing down the gateway drug into their system.

em10.ii was a magnet into m43, now there’s pretty much nothing to bring fresh blood in
 

Ghostbuggy

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Sometimes you can find good prices for the E-M5 Mk II, I am talking between 300 and 350 Euro, but those offers have become rare, at least here in Germany. Used prices also tell how popular the E-M10 Mark II is, as those are a bit high in comparison, especially when keeping in mind the age and original price when it was released.

An interesting alternative for a back-up camera would in fact be another E-M1 Mark II, which can be found used for around 700 to 780 Euro. However on the other hand a used E-M5.3 isn't that much more expensive...
 
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Totally agree. Olympus suicided by dumbing down the gateway drug into their system.

em10.ii was a magnet into m43, now there’s pretty much nothing to bring fresh blood in
When I hear the EM10.4 in the same paragraph as “shooting schedule” and “photographic work” perhaps Olympus/OMDS is doing the obvious and logical.

With both the entry-level model and the flagship using the same sensor and a 4x difference in price, the only way to prevent cannibalizing sales was to make the lower end less attractive to those for whom photography means “schedule” and “work”.

This thread is then proof of their marketing success.
 

RAH

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The sensor on the 10.4 is not the same. It only has contrast-detect, where the EM5.3 includes phase detect. Not sure about the engine, but I‘d be surprised if it’s much of a step up from the EM5.3 since the 10.4 is an entry level body.
What he said^. Robin Wong even mentions this in one of his videos (queued at the correct place):
@Aristophanes , from what he says, I think it is not correct that "with both the entry-level model and the flagship using the same sensor". From what he says, it isn't just the contrast-detect-only, but the number of MPs (20.3 vs 20.4), etc. So, they're different. So this could account for the differences you are seeing in IQ, IMHO.
 
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archaeopteryx

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the number of MPs (20.3 vs 20.4), etc.
This made me curious, so I looked up the specs:
  • E-M1 III: 20.4 MP, 5184 x 3888 (21.8 MP actual)
  • E-M5 III: 20.4 MP, 5184 x 3888 (21.8 MP actual)
  • E-M10 IV: 20.3 MP, 5184 x 3888 (21.8 MP actual)
Since 5184 x 3888 = 20.155 MP all of the headline MP numbers are inflated. Presumably Olympus chose to inflate the E-M10 IV by less for marketing purposes.

Sony's infosheets for the IMX269 and IMX272 both say 5388 x 4040 (21.77 MP), which is correct math and presumably where the 21.8 MP actual comes from. It would not surprise me at all if the IMX269 and IMX272 share some masks to reduce costs and I suspect it's likely the IMX270 Olympus uses in PDAF bodies shares a base design with the IMX272 and the only difference is an additional mask step to block off parts of some pixels for OSPDAF. It's also conceivable the IMX269 and 272 are speed bins of the same part, with the 272 being the ones which test for 60 fps.

So, while it's an oversimplification to say Olympus has the same sensor across all price tiers, it seems likely the basic idea is correct. For example, the dynamic range measurements available for current Olympus bodies are pretty much interchangeable and likely identical within measurement accuracy and body to body variation.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what's the path OMDS has chosen.
My sense of the ILC market is manufacturers are mostly too paternalistic to believe we'll notice or care about crippling. Personally, it mainly acts to increase the amount of consideration I give to phone cameras. I felt Olympus telegraphed the crippling with the E-M10 III and wasn't surprised to see it increase in IV. Since the OM-D people came with JIP's purchase the mindset may or may not change.

Panasonic cripples too but, so far as I can tell, cripples about the least and seems more committed to maintaining a lower cost presence than other manufacturers. That too may change with management fiat but it's definitely one of the factors leading to my μ43 kit being all Panasonic except for one Olympus lens.
 
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They went out of market, excellent marketing killed them.
Yes, that's pretty much my thinking as well.

When I was to choose a replacement for my GX9 I was looking into EM10.4, EM10.3 and EM5.3. Dismissed immediately the EM5.3 due to its swivel display type and almost bought the EM10.3 (available on the used market, therefore cheaper than the 10.4) but I realized in due time it lacks silent shutter (and this was supposed to be my street camera). Therefore went back and looked into EM10.2 (was still looking for a used/cheaper camera body) against EM10.4 then, finally, the "technology advance" won me over, so I ended up buying a brand new EM10.4. Which I enjoy a lot, actually (one big plus being, btw, its plastic and lightweight construction).

To sum up, I went through the same frustration finding the EM10 line being chopped down from the (said) excellent EM10.2. And I considered this to be a big arrogance from Olympus, like they could afford that due to being a market leader. Which they were not. I sort of felt exactly the same when I left the Nikon DSLR boat (at least Nikon were, at that time, constantly increasing their market share - so their arrogance was, somehow, pardonable).
 
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They went out of market, excellent marketing killed them.
All dedicated camera makers do exactly the same. It has to do with the parochial, institutional culture of the Japanese dedicated camera industry. They have nothing else in the toolkit to differentiate price tiers. m43 never made money for Olympus Inc. For over a decade photography was a legacy, vanity project.
 

Darmok N Jalad

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I’m somewhat conflicted over the plastic build of the E-M5.3 (never used the 10.4). Putting a big lens on it is possible, but it’s not a confident feeling to use the shoulder strap with something like the 100-400 or 40-150 pro on there. If you steer clear of the huge lenses, then the light build is incredibly liberating. Our local zoo is rather expansive, and by far the best packing experience I had was the E-M5.3, 12-45, and 75-300 and a spare battery. The stuff I wasn’t using easily rode in a jacket pocket. It didn’t feel like I was carrying a camera at all.
 

PakkyT

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Totally agree. Olympus suicided by dumbing down the gateway drug into their system.

em10.ii was a magnet into m43, now there’s pretty much nothing to bring fresh blood in

I kind of disagree with this statement in that you have to keep in mind that here at mu-43, we are a bunch of enthusiasts talking about a system we know pretty well. Most people here complaining about the E-M10.4 are those who already use more advanced models and were looking for something small or cheaper but still expected all the same bells and whistles in the menu system as they have on their E-M5 or E-M1 model. So our tiny little subset of users is not really representative of all Oly users.

Instead I would guess that more of the sales of new E-M10.4s are to new users looking to try a "real camera" over their mobile phone (new parents, retirees, someone going on their dream vacation, etc.) and are not sure they want to commit as much money to the other lines. To most of them, the E-M10.4 is probably a seemingly very complicated, function rich, sophisticated piece of photography equipment. If they have no prior knowledge of say, MySets, they are not going to be missing them on the 10.4.
 
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Darmok N Jalad

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I kind of disagree with this statement in that you have to keep in mind that here at mu-43, we are a bunch of enthusiasts talking about a system we know pretty well. Most people here complaining about the E-M10.4 are those who already use more advanced models and were looking for something small or cheaper but still expected all the same bells and whistles in the menu system as they have on their E-M5 or E-M1 model. So our tiny little subset of users is not really representative of all Oly users.

Instead I would guess that more of the sales of new E-M10.4s are to new users looking to try a "real camera" over their mobile phone (new parents, retirees, someone going on their dream vacation, etc.) and are not sure they want to commit as much money to the other lines. To most of them, the E-M10.4 is probably a seemingly very complicated, function rich, sophisticated piece of photography equipment. If they have no prior knowledge of say, MySets, they are not going to be missing them on the 10.4.
I think you have it. When I was searching for my first ILC, the E-M10 was on my list. I ended up getting a GX85. That was largely because the price was similar and they offered a 2 lens kit. The 2 were quite similar, but the concept was the same. I would even propose that the lack of many advanced features could be to reduce confusion for customers just starting out. The E-M5 was intended for the folks wanting more features but similar form factor. The Pen-F was another small body that brought the build quality as well.

Same story would go for the GX9 and G85/95. The G85 was my next step before I went with the G9. I realized that I like the gripped body, regardless of what format I use.
 

pdk42

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As someone who railed against the swivel screen for some time, it’s very frustrating that it’s impossible to buy an Olympus camera that has a tilt-only screen and yet which isn’t heavily dumbed down or, worse, lacks an EVF. However, I’ve eventually reconciled myself to the swivel and although I still have an EM10.2, if I had to replace it, losing the tilt only shouldn’t be a deal breaker. @pake - why do you say macro demands a tilt-only screen?
 

ac12

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I think of the EM10 line as the entry level camera to Olympus m4/3, much like the lower half of the Nikon APS-C line, the D3xxx and D5xxx cameras.

The dumbed down Nikon D3xxx and D5xxx are what SELLS to the people who coming from a cell phone camera, want a "real" camera. And that is what SELLS at Costco, not the high dollar FF stuff.

I have trouble teaching the high school kids to use the rather simple D5600 (and Canon T7i). They are used to point and click with their phones. Some are able to get it, some have trouble.

I had one student shoot an entire game "out of focus." On investigating, I found the focus point moved all the way to the left. So she was aiming the camera in one direction (like her cell phone), while the camera was focusing in another. So now, one of my basic lessons that I spend time on is, how to use the auto focus; be aware of where the focus point is (did it get moved to the side and how to move it back to the center), and to put the AF point ON the subject.

Some people don't "get it," that "the AF point has to be ON the subject, for the subject to be in focus." So the mfg has to dumb down the AF, so the camera will choose what to focus on, just like on a cell phone camera, because the photographer can't.

I remember talking to a parent who was carrying a set of pro level Canon gear, and he had his camera in "Auto" mode, cuz he did not know how to set and use it in any other mode. :eek:

So much as I hate the dumbing down of the EM10 line, I see the logic, to get the cell phone users.

But, I do wish there was an optional firmware for those of us that don't want a dumbed down EM10, to get us back to the mk2 level of control, rather than be pushed up to the EM5. I got my EM10-mk2 as a small/light option to my EM1.
 

doady

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I got E-M1 II and 12-100mm a couple of years ago to replace my C-7070WZ in preparation for an overseas trip to a rainy tropical country. I ordered 8-25mm F4 yesterday because I thought it best fulfills my requirements photographing an urban environment full of skyscrapers and wide boulevards. These decisions were based on what I felt were my needs.

Would I have gotten E-M1X instead of E-M1 II if I had started out with a more capable camera, like C-8080WZ or E-30 or something? Would I have gotten 7-14mm F2.8 instead of 8-25mm F4?

I think that's the problem with viewing a camera so much as a "gateway drug", as luxuries or recreational products. For Olympus/OM to start focusing more on making products what people want, and less on making products that people need, could be heading down the wrong path.
 
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I use to think that, like with people, once you give someone a "set" salary - then you can't chop it down without creating frustration. You can, reversely, add more tasks to that person's tasks list, but reducing their salary is a big mistake which would lead to un-motivating the said person. So, in my mind, the things are pretty much replicable to photo cameras (or any other consumer goods): once you set a standard for a class of products, you can't really go back and chop off features from the following generations of the same camera line without creating user's frustration. In our case, the EM10 line of cameras is not only about "newcomers" (from cellphone cameras into m43 system) but also about m43 users that need an lighter camera or a backup camera or just a second camera since it is trendy to have one.

L.E. I would go as far as to say that I would have never bought any EM10 line products should my EM5 had the silent shooting mode (I could have lived with its shutter lag with no complaints)
 
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