RAW oversaturated and incorrect colour Mac Big Sur

Adrian Jones

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Hi all, just wondering if its just my Macbook (M1 running Big Sur) that oversaturates all RAW files when compared to JPG files or if all Macs running this OS are affected. The colour is off too, reds and magentas are the worst but all colours are affected. I noticed it first when I shot RAW plus JPG and the difference in Apples preview is quite large, the jpg files look correct whereas the RAWs are awful and loose details. The difference also appears in other programmes like Olympus Workspace and Darktable amongst others. It only affects the files when viewing them on the Mac, if I copy the same files and view them on my Linux box the JPG and RAWs have the correct colour and saturation. This problem makes assessing and selecting RAW images for processing very difficult. Anyone found similar?
 

mcasan

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No problem on my M1 Mini using Capture One, Photoshop or Lightroom Classic using calibrated 32" monitor with wide gamut. I never use Photos to do any serious editing. I only use Workspace to update camera and lens firmware. Been shooting m43 for over 5 years.
 

Adrian Jones

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No problem on my M1 Mini using Capture One, Photoshop or Lightroom Classic using calibrated 32" monitor with wide gamut. I never use Photos to do any serious editing. I only use Workspace to update camera and lens firmware. Been shooting m43 for over 5 years.
Thanks mcasan, appreciated. I have never used Photos to do anything either, normally use Darktable, Rawtherapee and sometimes Workspace now I have a computer that will run it. The problem I have is not so much with the editing but the preview and analysing the RAW files to decide which to process further. The colour/saturation discrepancy disappears once the file is loaded into the RAW processing software and a profile is applied, I normally use neutral where everything is set to zero when I start to edit an image. This problem is happening with Canon RAW files as well as Olympus. It seems that Apple applies a wide gamut colour profile to RAW files called Display P3 and I have a feeling that is where my problem lies. The colour differences if I shoot RAW + JPG on my Olympus cameras between the two file types can be very noticeable in some images, less so in others but its always present. Apple seems to apply whatever was set in the camera to the jpg files ie RGB or Adobe RGB. thanks again for your reply, appreciated.
 

John King

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The initial RAW thumbnail is generated from the embedded JPEG file in the RAW. 3200x2400, probably not colour calibrated.

If you open the file to preview, it will update the thumbnail to far more correct colours. At least, that's what it does using Adobe Bridge on my PCs.

And PS, :Welcome: to this friendly forum.
 
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Using an iMac here
FastRawViewer v2 seems to be showing the colours correctly. Since I shoot Raw plus Jpeg it shows the colours from the Jpeg not the imbedded one as far as I can understand

ON1 seems to be the same

Olympus workspace v1.5.0 looks a bit more saturated and colourfull compared to the above two, but I must admit I like that.
If you had not mentioned it, I would not have noticed it.

The difference is minor to me, but I am not a purist for this sort of thing. Which is correct I do not know. :hmmm:
 

Adrian Jones

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Thanks John, Thats exactly what I would assume would happen but it doesn't on this Mac, the thumbnails in the folder where I uploaded the files to are different colours depending on whether they are Jpegs or RAW, this colour difference stays if they are opened in Apples Preview or anything else, its as if Apple automatically applies this Display P3 profile to any image file that has no profile ie as in RAW files.
Thank you for the welcome too, much appreciated. :)
 
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Adrian Jones

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Using an iMac here
FastRawViewer v2 seems to be showing the colours correctly. Since I shoot Raw plus Jpeg it shows the colours from the Jpeg not the imbedded one as far as I can understand

ON1 seems to be the same

Olympus workspace v1.5.0 looks a bit more saturated and colourfull compared to the above two, but I must admit I like that.
If you had not mentioned it, I would not have noticed it.

The difference is minor to me, but I am not a purist for this sort of thing. Which is correct I do not know. :hmmm:
Thanks retiredfromlife, Thanks for your reply, I'm pleased it's not just me or my computer but for me its enough to make deciding which RAW file is the best out of several very similar ones as the saturation and slightly warmer colours loose the finest details. It means I always have to shoot both RAW and jpg so I can see details and know which to develop fully. I shoot macro, insects and plants almost exclusively and so I need to see the tiniest details to ensure that the main areas of interest are actually in focus, when DOF is perhaps only 1/10 of a mm ensuring the plane of focus is in exactly the right place makes all the difference.
 
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Thanks retiredfromlife, Thanks for your reply, I'm pleased it's not just me or my computer but for me its enough to make deciding which RAW file is the best out of several very similar ones as the saturation and slightly warmer colours loose the finest details. It means I always have to shoot both RAW and jpg so I can see details and know which to develop fully. I shoot macro, insects and plants almost exclusively and so I need to see the tiniest details to ensure that the main areas of interest are actually in focus, when DOF is perhaps only 1/10 of a mm ensuring the plane of focus is in exactly the right place makes all the difference.
Good to see another macro shooter in the forum. I also like close up work. Spiders around Christmas time for a month or so before they die off.
Looking forward to seeing some of your photos in the spiders or macro forums.
Most there do close up rather than true 1:1 macro.
 

PakkyT

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While it makes sense that opening a RAW file in other editors might result in a different interpretation of how to process and display that RAW file, it seems odd to me that you see this as well when using Olympus Workspace which should show the RAW very close to the camera generated JPG.
 
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While it makes sense that opening a RAW file in other editors might result in a different interpretation of how to process and display that RAW file, it seems odd to me that you see this as well when using Olympus Workspace which should show the RAW very close to the camera generated JPG.
Got to admit I think I like the workspace colour the best. I think it generates nice colours. Buy for someone like me if it looks nice, good to go and accuracy is not important within reason.

I would like to think that workspace is the most accurate.

And if I did not open them up side by side in different editors like I did today I would never have known. For someone with my ability the difference is academic, I would be happy with any of them.
 

PakkyT

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I would like to think that workspace is the most accurate.
Right, but my comment was aimed at the original poster where they said they do not get the same colors in their raw files as the jpg even when they open them in Workspace. I would think Workspace would always open the RAW very close to what you see on the JPG. Even if your monitor is completely off calibration and you get funky colors I would expect the same funkiness to be the same in both and even if the colors are way off they should be way off identically.
 

IMoL

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I use 2 macs, one M1 and one slightly older Intel. I see no difference between them, but then I never view the RAW files in the OS at all, except to move files around in finder, but then I am not looking at the colours. I only view the RAW files in C1, Bridge or FastRawViewer.
 

Adrian Jones

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Hi PakkyT, thanks for your reply. It's a strange one, the Macbooks screen displays colours beautifully, very natural, it's just RAW files that have a problem, everything else is excellent as far as I am able to tell, the colours match the wide gamut display attached to my main desktop running Linux well. The jpeg's look great straight out of the camera from both my EM1 mk2 and EM1 mk3 as do jpeg's from my Canon. Raws , when previewed, from any of these cameras show the problem when opened on the Macbook, they are oversaturated and have a very warm tint to them, very unnatural and fine detail is lost especially at the red end of the spectrum. When I first noticed this I thought that I had messed up some setting on the camera, its like super vivid has been turned on but as it affects all my cameras realised it was to do with this laptop.
I have a feeling that when fisrt opened in editing software the RAW files don't have a profile so the system displays them using the system default which on these Macs seems to be Display P3, as soon as I add a profile or set it to neutral in the editing software the RAW's look as I would expect the to.
 

Adrian Jones

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I use 2 macs, one M1 and one slightly older Intel. I see no difference between them, but then I never view the RAW files in the OS at all, except to move files around in finder, but then I am not looking at the colours. I only view the RAW files in C1, Bridge or FastRawViewer.
Thank you IMoL, much appreciated, its a strange one and quite possibly something I have done but I have no idea what, never seen a problem like this before on numerous other computers I have owned/built.
 

IMoL

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Thank you IMoL, much appreciated, its a strange one and quite possibly something I have done but I have no idea what, never seen a problem like this before on numerous other computers I have owned/built.
I just wonder if it's somethng to do with Big Sur (or an update thereto) - both of mine are in synch from an OS version perspective (and I keep them that way, so I would not necessarily notice if something changed version to version)
 
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