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POWER OIS problems for video

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by Vesku, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Vesku

    Vesku Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Sep 23, 2014
    Fin
    I have studied hard about Panasonic POWER OIS lenses and I think that there is a global issue. My 14-140 II has nasty micro vibration when shooting video handheld. Later I found that 12-35mm and 35-100mm has the same issue. There are lots of examples in forums of that issue.

    Could someone with those lenses report the same issue for us. Micro jitter or vibration when shooting stationary subject handheld.

    My test:
    https://vimeo.com/user23310531/videos
     
  2. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    There was a firmware update for the 12-35 that has corrected the issue you're describing, but no such firmware update has come out for the 35-100 or 14-140 II.
     
  3. Vesku

    Vesku Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Sep 23, 2014
    Fin
    That FW update removed the jitter what existed when OIS switch was at off position!!! How weird. I mean the jitter which exists when shooting OIS on handheld.
     
  4. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    According to Pansonic's firmware update site (link) says that with the version 1.2 update, "Improved the stability of O.I.S.(Optical Image Stabilizer) in Motion Picture recording". It was an improvement made to reduce the "micro jitter" seen in video footage with the Power O.I.S. switch set to "on".
     
  5. Vesku

    Vesku Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Sep 23, 2014
    Fin
    But the micro jitter is still there. I tested in my store with updated 12-35mm lens.
     
  6. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I don't know what to tell you, but the firmware update for the 12-35 lens was to improve the stabilization for use during video recording. If you using Panasonic lenses are completely unusable for your kind of work, then your only options are to either bring a tripod, or sell your gear and get a camera that will work for your needs. Fortunately for what I do, the OIS works just fine (mostly stills, with some video just for memories).
     
  7. Vesku

    Vesku Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Sep 23, 2014
    Fin
    I payed 2600 dollars for a state of the art video hybrid camera. Every tests has praised that lens for video too. It is OK for just memories or casual amateur holiday shots but I still waited more. 200 dollars camcorder can make more stable video!
     
  8. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    It is a bit ironic that Panasonic who has clearly turned towards video as a major feature, is not providing the necessary quality in their own lenses, and that in some respects, one would be better off buying an Olympus camera to use with their lenses (and disable their OIS and rather use Oly IBIS). Of course, the problem with that is that Olympus really has no good Video support (no 4K, poor framerate and codec support etc)
     
  9. poopstick

    poopstick Mu-43 Regular

    112
    Aug 9, 2013
    Burlington Ontario
    Looking at your videos, all I see is judder from a fluctuating shutter speed. Have you tried shooting in manual mode?
     
  10. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    Here is an example I did with the 35-100, full manual mode, compared with three other lenses at comparable focal length:

    http://vimeo.com/106895202
     
  11. poopstick

    poopstick Mu-43 Regular

    112
    Aug 9, 2013
    Burlington Ontario
    Yes, I can definitely see the problem on that video with the 35-100. You say the 14-140, and the 12-35 do the same?
    I've shot a few videos on the 12-35, and never saw any problems.
     
  12. Vesku

    Vesku Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Sep 23, 2014
    Fin
    Hi. Are you talking about my vimeo examples.
    Shutter speed has nothing to do with vibration which is generated by lens. Ignore those river samples. Those are stabilation tests.

    How I can explain my issues because people cant see these faults in video. People are willing to accept bad quality because they have no idea of how it can be better.
     
  13. stripedrex

    stripedrex Do or do not. There is no try.

    374
    Jun 8, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    Alex
    Wow that's some serious jitter. I use the e-m1 on my 35-100 going to test later. Hoping the LX100 doesn't suffer that with P-OIS.
     
  14. Vesku

    Vesku Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Sep 23, 2014
    Fin
    Hi. Have you shot stationary video clips handheld. The jitter is then best visible. If you move camera the jitter mixes with camera movement and is harder to see. We are talking about fast little jitter which is not very obvious at least in small monitor. In big screen it is very disturbing.
     
  15. poopstick

    poopstick Mu-43 Regular

    112
    Aug 9, 2013
    Burlington Ontario
    Why don't you show us some video with the issue then?
     
  16. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    Yes, though I will say this test I did is with Tele Ex enabled (for all lenses of course), so basically it is recording only a 1920x1080 portion off the sensor and it will show more than when you downsample the entire sensor. I will run another test tonight to see how it fares in "normal" mode. However, the fact that it shows so much worse than other lenses is really discouraging.
     
  17. Vesku

    Vesku Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Sep 23, 2014
    Fin
    One guy "Guli" reported the same issue in my vimeo page.


    "Güli 3 weeks ago
    did you find anything out. i am having the same problem"
     
  18. guelinator

    guelinator New to Mu-43

    2
    Jan 31, 2014
    Does anybody belief that we will get a fix for that, or does Panasonic just dont care about it.
    They are praising power OIS as far better than mega OIS, and they made GH4 a great toy for videographers, but their PowerOIS really sucks at video....

    my video with the worst jitter i've made so far:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hXl0dCHaBo&list=UUWqxv1tWulrWxjOzDYwMf_A

    i have also a 100-300mm MegaOIS, and i am very happy with it.
    it also seems that all the MegaOIS lenses seem the have no jitter.

    i would love to get the 35-100mm because its a sharp lens, but the 45-150 seems to do a far better job at video. that really breaks my heart

    I have made some extensinve tests this weekend, i also used a monopod, handheld, hendheld with really good stability.
    with the 14-140mm MK2 at 100mm every video jittered. the only thing that worked was a several kg heavy rig, that stabilized the 14-140mm so good, that its working, but than i can even film without OIS without jitters

    100-300mm did well in every test at 100mm, handheld, monopod.. every video did not have those terrible micro-jitters....

    i have filmed a lot with the G6 and 14-140mm MK2, and never noticed the jitter before, but i still did not figure out, if its because the resolution is far less (GH4 in 4K uses 1:1 pixel, and G6 downsamples full sensor to fullhd) or it behaves differently....
     
  19. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    For those of you who did not see it yet, I added a video to show the issue of Micro Jitter on the Panasonic 35-100. This is basically a Power OIS flaw that shows itself clearly when doing handheld video with stabilization enabled. This issue is fairly widely reported, and similar issues have been reported for the Panasonic 14-140. Earlier the issue was apparent on Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 as well, but Panasonic did provide a firmware fix to that particular lens.(though there are some conflicting reports of the effectiveness of that fix). It seems logical that similar fixes could be done for these two other lenses as well, but Panasonic has so far not acknowledged the problem. This is perhaps because a large percentage of users are mainly taking photos, not shooting video, so it has not so far affected ratings or most reviews to a large degree. (It works fine for photos)

    Comparing 4 lenses, around 35-45mm, to see how each handle in terms of OIS when used handheld. Shot with GH3 in Ex-tele mode (which zooms in), then Premiere was used to crop into 4 different squares. All were shot at 24fps w/125 shutter speed, 1000 iso, and either f4 or f5.6 aperture. Original clips were stored in 1080p24 at 50mbps. Absolutely no processing of the video was done other than cropping.

    As is evident, the 35-100 has a very clear micro jitter issue, while even a cheap 14-42 kit lens does not.

    Lenses in test:
    Panasonic Leica 42.5mm f1.2 "Nocticron"
    Panasonic 45-150 f4-5.6 (shot at 45mm)
    Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 x-series (shot around 40-45mm)
    Panasonic 14-45 f3.5-f5.6 (shot at 45mm)

    The first test is available at https://vimeo.com/106895202
    Also available at http://youtu.be/Nnz-1477CrY (1080p)

    The second test is available at https://vimeo.com/107002305
    The second test is now also available in 1080p at youtube: http://youtu.be/Rl00rMhQP-Y

    Some information about the second test:

    This time I am testing the Panasonic 45-150 f4-f5.6 and the Panasonic 35-100 f2.8. I do not show which side is which until about 15 seconds out in the video, so try to guess... I am NOT using Tele Ex for this second test.

    Shot Full Manual, f5.6, 1/125 shutter, 1000 iso. Stored each clip as 24P, 1080p 50mbps. First half is shot at approx 45mm, Second half is shot at approx 100mm for both lenses.

    PS: As usual, it is better to Download than to Stream. I have a free account, so streaming is limited to 720p and for the second video, Vimeo actually capped it at SD resolution (but you can still download full HD, plus I uploaded a youtube version as well), and you better download fast, as I think it stays up for download for about a week only(?)