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Possible for IBIS to 'wear out'?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by jurgen, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. jurgen

    jurgen Mu-43 Regular

    120
    Jan 27, 2014
    I have an admittedly limited understanding of how IBIS systems work (not only Olympus' but Panasonic's and Pentax's as well), but is it possible that it could "wear out" as does a shutter mechanism? Or that the sensor might be prone to "giving out" faster because it (for lack of a better word) "clangs" into stuff from time to time when the camera/IBIS is powered off (is it even the sensor that does this, or is it the rails to which it's attached)?

    My E-M1 is working impeccably by the way, couldn't be happier. Just something I've been curious about :)
     
  2. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    It's a mechanical device, so inevitably it will either stop working or start to perform erratically/poorly, but I suspect that the shutter and the dust remover will be on its last legs by that time as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    Any mechanical system will eventually be subjected to wear and tear, but I don't think you need to worry about it either unless you severely dropped the camera and jammed the IBIS. I love IBIS on the E-PL1 -- it's a great hand warmer probably from draining the battery fast when I use it a lot then a heat warning. :frown:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. jurgen

    jurgen Mu-43 Regular

    120
    Jan 27, 2014
    Interesting! As a followup, does this mean that lens based IS systems are potentially prone to "wearing out" as well? Or autofocus systems, for that matter?
     
  5. Mikefellh

    Mikefellh Mu-43 Top Veteran

    939
    Jun 7, 2012
    Toronto, Canada
    From what I've read the system on the E-M5 uses voice coil magnets like what moves the heads on a hard drive. The electromagnets won't wear out, although the driver circuit may burn out. Hard drives will take a LOT more abuse than the IBIS system ever will.
     
  6. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Absolutely! Both IS and AF are electromechanical devices, so eventually things will start to wear out, or some extreme jolt etc may put them out of alignment/cause operational issues. This is probably where the pro lenses etc tend to last longer, in the main, as the components are more likely to be better engineered, manufactured, sealed etc.
     
  7. orfeo

    orfeo Mu-43 Top Veteran

    673
    Sep 27, 2013
    FR
    If you clean your sensor by yourself the wrong you will damage it. If the ibis outlast the 100000 mtf cycle well you got a champion mechanical ibis.
     
  8. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    You never need to clean an Olympus sensor. The IS is less prone to wear, so should last well in excess of the shutter.
     
  9. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Everything will degrade given enough time. However it has not been an issue. I am sure somebody someplace has had it fail but I have not heard of any complaints. I have heard more about AF failures than anything else. I wouldn't worry about it, just enjoy what it can do.
     
  10. pake

    pake Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 14, 2010
    Finland
    Teemu
    Well... This is what happened to my E-M5 after ~15 months of usage:

    [video=youtube;2CmVtlBcj_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CmVtlBcj_w[/video]

    [video=youtube;D-ktD4NuljE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ktD4NuljE[/video]

    I sent the camera three(!) times to Olympus and they claimed it was functioning according to specs. They finally admitted after seeing the second video that it indeed is faulty and they sent me a new camera (which I will get today!).

    I use the IBIS so that it activates when I press the shutter halfway. Who knows if that decreases IBIS lifespan...
     
  11. gr8Shot

    gr8Shot Mu-43 Regular

    99
    Nov 13, 2013
    Not my experience. Mirrorless cameras have an exposed sensor that is charged whenever the camera is running. DSLRs have a sensor hidden behind a shutter curtain. For the most part, the sensor is charged only while exposing pictures.

    My E-M1 sensor has required one major cleaning with Eclipse fluid in October and weekly dusting with an Arctic Butterfly static brush since then. My E-M1 collects more debris than any camera I have owned excepting my old Nikon D200 that lacked a sensor vibrator and used a CCD.

    For those who say sensor cleaning is dangerous, please explain. I have wet cleaned more than a 100 sensors for myself and friends since 2006. I have 100% perfect results and 100% happy customers. A camera sensor is NOT as delicate as some suggest. Cleaning is as easy as a lens element when you get over the fear of the unknown. Educate yourself. Your mirrorless camera will appreciate it.
     
  12. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    There are three commonly voiced concerns over cleaning Oly sensors:

    1 - Oly recommend against it

    2 - The external face of the sensor (actually the dust shaker) has an anti- static coating that wet cleaning will remove

    3 - The IBIS may be damaged by applying too much pressure. Depends whether it's turned on or not, but there is no guidance or science behind which may be better.

    Personally, I've wet cleaned my E -M5 and have not suffered any ill-effects. YMMV!

    Also, I disagree about the Oly sensors being unduly sensitive to dust accumulation. My experience is that they're better than the Canon gear I used to have.
     
  13. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    Are you including sensor-based IBIS mechanisms in your definition of a "sensor"?

    --Ken
     
  14. madmaxmedia

    madmaxmedia Mu-43 Veteran

    335
    Feb 20, 2010
    Honestly these days the magnetic stripe of your credit card is more likely to wear out first than your IBIS mechanism, due to annual upgrade cycles.
     
  15. gr8Shot

    gr8Shot Mu-43 Regular

    99
    Nov 13, 2013
    Yes.

    The E-M1 sensor rests on a relatively substantial rubber gasket when it is at rest. It needs a solid resting point - not just for cleaning. The IBIS sensor takes a beating riding around in your camera bag and on your shoulder. Cleaning is not hard on the sensor - IBIS or not.

    Few, if any, manufacturers recommend cleaning your own sensor. You can determine the ultimate reason on your own. I will argue the answer is more legal than technical.

    I am comfortable doing it. I am certainly not alone. Thom Hogan Agrees that Mirrorless sensor cleaning is a virtual necessity.

    Fostering doubt about sensor cleaning is fine if that makes anyone feel better. I am happier getting crud off my sensor on a regular basis.
     
  16. gr8Shot

    gr8Shot Mu-43 Regular

    99
    Nov 13, 2013
    Sensor Cleaning Supplies

    For those who care, here is my complete arsenal of sensor cleaning tools as a followup to Thom Hogan's excellent summary of sensor cleaning issues.

    Cleaning Supplies in order of first use. I stop when the sensor is clean - and continue to the next when it is not:

    1. Rocket Blower. I have many kinds, including the overpriced VisibleDust Zeeion. Here is my current favourite:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/838819-REG/sensei_bl_012_bulb_air_blower_cleaning_system.html $6.95

    2. Sensor Loupe. This one from Amazon.com I like best:
    http://www.amazon.com/Opteka-SSC-85...8&qid=1392132586&sr=8-2&keywords=sensor+loupe $39.95

    The VisibleDust version is acceptable if you are ordering everything from B&H - currently $30 off:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/870213-REG/Visible_Dust_9183082_Quasar_7x_Sensor_Loupe.html $69.96

    3. Visible Dust Static Brush (ESSENTIAL - works 90% of the time). Comes in different sizes, without or without light. I prefer the smallest brush regardless of sensor size:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/936371-REG/visible_dust_9469492_arctic_butterfly_sl_707.html $72.75

    4. Visible Dust Green Swabs. After much experimentation, I just find green works best. Two sizes (12 Pack):

    Full Frame http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/561007-REG/Visible_Dust_4080470_UltraMXD_Vswab_1_0x_Green.html $43.65
    Everyone else including m43: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/435203-REG/Visible_Dust_2863171_Swabs_for_1_5_1_6x_Sensor.html $43.65

    5. Eclipse cleaning fluid (for cemented dust and water spots):
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Solutions_EC_Eclipse_Optic_Lens_Cleaning.html $8.50

    6. Visible Dust Smear Away Fluid (for oily blotches that Eclipse won’t get):
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/439049-REG/Visible_Dust_2351918_1_Smear_Away_Solution.html $25.95

    Total cost = $200. But like so many things in photography, the benefit of flexibility and getting the job done right justifies the expense for me.
     
  17. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    Thank you for the reply. I respect Thom Hogan, and agree with the post that you referenced, but didn't Thom also say this:

    in this post: http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/a-note-about-camera-reviews/olympus-camera-reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m5-review.html?

    I think that we all need to do what we are comfortable doing, and it appears that you feel comfortable cleaning the E-M5 type sensors. You may be correct that the warnings are more for legal purposes, but it is interesting that after advising folks to learn how to clean a sensor, Thom makes an exception for the E-M5. Perhaps that is for legal purposes as well, but I suspect that he might not have written the former post if that was the case. Given that I am horrible at repairing things, I suspect that I a might take a pass on cleaning and E-M5 sensor, if only because of Murphy's Law.

    --Ken
     
  18. gr8Shot

    gr8Shot Mu-43 Regular

    99
    Nov 13, 2013
    I think the inconsistency is: The E-M5 Review predates newer the WiIl I Ever Need to Manually Clean my Sensor article. I suspect Thom just changed his mind and accepted that cleaning mirrorless sensors is inevitable. I bet the E-M5 reference was never 'cleaned up' afterward.
     
  19. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    I am a bit confused. The date on the cleaning article is Nov. 3, 2011. The date on the E-M5 review is Dec. 17, 2012. Is there something that I am not considering?

    --Ken
     
  20. gr8Shot

    gr8Shot Mu-43 Regular

    99
    Nov 13, 2013
    The sansmirror.com cleaning article was actually published in late 2013 and certainly not November 3, 2011. From what I can see: sansmirror.com was launched on November 3, 2011. Looks like this date was applied to the cleaning article by mistake.