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Please talk me out of this

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by DynaSport, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. DynaSport

    DynaSport Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 5, 2013
    Dan
    My G5 appears to have died after all. It makes me sad. It was the camera that got me to stay with m43. I first bought an E-PM1 because I thought I wanted the smallest camera I could get. But I never bonded with the E-PM1. It was hard for me to change settings on. It often focused where I didn't want it to. It was sometimes slow to lock focus and I missed shots. I thought about ditching it and sticking with my Canon DSLR. But then I bought the G5 on a huge sale and really liked it. After buying the G5 I have bought the P14, PL25, O45, and P100-300. I already had the O14-42 and O40-150.

    So, now I find myself in need of another m43 camera. I have always bought cameras that had been out for a while and that I could find a good sale on. But now I am tempted to buy the G7 kit with the 14-140. I was considering that lens as the next lens for my G5 anyway, for times when I wanted a one lens walk around solution.

    But, I can get a much better discount on the GH3 or EM-5. So, please talk some sense into me. Explain to me that I would be better off buying one of those cameras instead of the G7. I am leaning toward the G7 because it has newer features, such as wi-fi capabilities. Because it is the most similar current camera to my G5 for ergonomics. Because it addresses pretty much all my dislikes of the G5 (faster shutter speed, better buffer, wi-fi, better tracking, better high ISO performance (I think on the last two)). So, with that in mind, tell me why I'd be better off with the GH3 or EM-5 or whatever other camera I can get a good buy on.

    Thanks
     
  2. faithblinded

    faithblinded Mu-43 Top Veteran

    929
    Nov 25, 2014
    Cleveland, OH
    Ken
    E-M5 is an easy call. Used bodies are priced ridiculously low, for what they offer. Since only 1 of your lenses has OIS, the IBIS of the E-M5 will be of huge benefit, and no panasonic body will offer it.
    The Panasonic bodies would offer better video, no question. The G7 would give you wifi, which the em5 lacks.
     
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  3. Mwing

    Mwing Mu-43 Regular

    48
    Jan 31, 2014
    if u will buy the 14-140 anyway, may just go for the g7
     
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  4. profgregorio

    profgregorio Mu-43 Regular

    116
    May 21, 2013
    Manila, Philippines
    I have both the G5 and the G7. After using the G5, you will probably hate the ergonomics of the EM5 and would need to buy the optional grip which will add a lot to the cost. I would advice you to take that into consideration when deciding your purchase. Good luck with your decision.
     
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  5. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    The GH3 and E-M5 are both fine cameras. IBIS would swing it for on the E-M5, but since your G5 didn't have it, the GH3 is probably the better bet since the menus etc will be very similar.
     
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  6. Vivalo

    Vivalo Olympus Loser

    931
    Nov 16, 2010
    Finland
    Why not the GX7?
     
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  7. Robstar1963

    Robstar1963 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    895
    Jun 10, 2011
    Isle of Wight England UK
    Robert (Rob)
    Which despite a comment to the contrary in a post above -DOES HAVE GOOD INBUILT IMAGE STABILISATION - Not common on Panasonic bodies -this was the first and only to include OIS prior to the GX8
    Also consider the EM10 - great camera - very compact - and ergonomically superb if you add the optional and very simple ECG1 - and uses older much cheaper spare batteries previously used in the (non EP5) PEN cameras
    Both of these are models that have been on sale for quite a while and have depreciated in price as a result
    You will be paying a considerable premium as an early adopter of the G7
    On all of these alternatives you will get much easier to use and smoother exposure control dials - the one thing that irritated me on G5 and G6 models - poorly placed and far from smooth in action
    I always thought that Panasonic missed a trick here - their toggle control for power zoom lenses / exposure comp duties in front of the shutter dial controls exposure settings in full manual mode - if they had included aperture and shutter control on the toggle in A and S mode they would have had a much more pleasant camera to use and I would probably still be using them now !
    Panasonic demonstrating how to ruin or seriously impair a product for the sake of a 'hapeth of tar'
    http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/spoil+the+ship+for+a+hap'orth+of+tar
    Rob
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2015
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  8. DynaSport

    DynaSport Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 5, 2013
    Dan
    I think my years of shooting dslr cameras makes me like the ergonomics of the G5 style of camera. What many view as ugly, is comfortable to me. That is one thing that concerns me about the E-M5. That and the Oly interface that so many here love. I might could get used to it on the E-M5, I could not on the E-PM1. But the E-PM1 has very few controls and that is what frustrated me so bad. The E-M5 has many more, and I could probably get used to it after a while.

    I am curious how beneficial I would find IBIS. It seems like many people feel they couldn't get by without it. Perhaps, since I have never had it (well, the E-PM1 had it, but I ended up turning it off because shutter shock ruined more photos than the IBIS saved), I don't know what I'm missing. I could buy the E-M5 and the Oly 14-150 for about $300 less than the the G7/14-140 kit. Or, I could buy the GH3 for a couple hundred less than the G7/14-42 kit. I'm in no rush at the moment. I'm still trying to like my E-PM1.

    Thanks for the replies. I'm not talked out of it yet, but I can't ignore all the recommendations for the E-M5.
     
  9. fredlong

    fredlong Just this guy...

    Apr 18, 2011
    Massachusetts USA
    Fred
    The G6 has ergonomics more like the G5 and is pretty inexpensive now.It also has some of the more up to date features you mention. The G7 ergonomics are better than any previous G body.

    Edited to add: As per your request. Don't do it! ;)
     
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  10. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    I would look at the E-M10 over the E-M5 unless you need weather sealed. There are a couple updates that would make the difference for me (af, processor, ...) and I like the one piece grip better.

    But how long have you had the G5? How long do you tend to keep your cameras? Some of us tend to turn over things regularly, others hold on to gear. If you hold on to your gear and the extra won't really be an issue then get the G7 + lens that you were looking at anyway and sell the two Olympus zooms.

    It sounds like you probably wouldn't be happy with an Olympus body or a range finder, nothing wrong with knowing what you like. But if you do turn things over often and want to play with something different than the E-M10 or GX7 would be my picks. They're old enough to be cheap and new enough that you should be able to resell them if you don't like them. I'd probably only look at the GH3 if the difference between it and the G7 would impact you.
     
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  11. DynaSport

    DynaSport Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 5, 2013
    Dan
    I tend to keep my gear a long time. I was shooting a Canon 20D when the Canon 60D was out. I like to get a camera and learn it. What it does well and what it doesn't do too well and try to get the most out of it. That being said, occasionally I buy something I just can't seem to get to do what I want it to and when that happens I will get something else. That's what happened with the E-PM1. I kept trying to take pictures of hummingbirds at a feeder, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get it to lock focus and take the picture I wanted. When I got the G5, it didn't have any trouble doing that.

    I guess what I want most is fast, accurate, focus. Good tracking as well. I know tracking isn't a strong suit of the m43, but some do it better than others. I would also really like better high ISO performance.
     
  12. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Well any of the options listed above will be better than the E-PM1 was so...

    But for you most wanted, the G7 with the new Depth From Defocus AF just adds to reasons to skip to the end and order the G7 + 14-140. Then list the 14-42 and 40-150 for sale.
     
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  13. TwoWheels

    TwoWheels Mu-43 Top Veteran

    679
    May 28, 2014
    British Columbia
    Evan
    If you liked the G5, treat yourself and buy the G7. Life's too short to not get what you want for the sake of a couple hundred dollars. If you try some thing else you're not convinced about and end up selling it, you'll be frustrated and waste money flipping it and then buying again. I try too often to save a few dollars buying a good value instead of what I really want. It's not worth it. :)
     
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  14. Bif

    Bif Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    May 28, 2012
    San Angelo TX
    Bruce Foreman
    G7!

    EVF on it is superior to the GH3, FAR SUPERIOR! Almost identical to that on the GH4.

    Superior to the E-M5 which while it had a nice EVF just isn't sharp and bright like the G7 EVF is. After all "seeing" is what it's all about.

    Magnified ASSIST in MF mode helps tremendously once you have it set up and tuned to your liking. Auto focus is very snappy and quick but a lot of situations will call for manual focus. Like at the far end of most tele zooms, where auto focus kind of struggles with the drop in contrast that is common in some situations.
     
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  15. ashburtononline

    ashburtononline Mu-43 Veteran

    389
    Jan 21, 2015
    New Zealand
    EM-1 .... why dick around. get the best!
     
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  16. DynaSport

    DynaSport Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 5, 2013
    Dan
    Well, after spending a fair bit of time comparing camera specs and reviews over the last couple of days, these are some of my conclusions.

    If I factor in weather sealing, which I have been tempted to do since I wonder if environmental issues had anything to do with my G5's demise, the options are limited and mostly expensive. There are the GH4, EM-1, EM-5, EM-5 II, GH3, and the GX-8. Of these, only the older GH3 and E-M5 can be considered bargains right now.

    But, I don't have any weather sealed lenses at present and I wonder how much of a benefit a weather sealed camera is without a weather sealed lens. Not that much I suspect. Although, of course, I might buy a weather sealed lens at some point and then having a weather sealed camera would be nice.

    Then I have to decide how much other features actually mean to me. If I really want wi-fi, the EM-5 is out. Most everyone says the screen on the GH3 is pretty bad and the specs seem to confirm this.

    AF speed and accuracy and tracking is pretty important to me. From the tests I have seen the GH4 is best at this. The EM-1 is next. I don't know where the G7 falls into this as I haven't seen any testing of its AF, but from what I can tell from the little I have been able to find, it is good. I wish it had a shutter capable of 1/8000 though, as I often wished my G5 did out on the bright beach.

    Here is what I have come up with bottom line. There are lots of choices and all of them seem good. The EM-5 seems to be the bargain of the whole bunch right now. If I was going strictly on price and discount, it would be hard to buy anything else. It is an older camera, but was the standard for m43 for a long time and while there are some areas that people complain about, seems to be a solid choice. For some reason I hesitate, however. I'm not sure the AF will be all I want. I'm afraid I won't like the ergonomics. I wanted wi-fi on my next camera.

    If price was no object for me, I think I'd be buying the GH-4. The only shortcoming it has that I can see is the lack of IBIS. And I guess for some the size might be an issue. I'm not sure either would bother me. Next would be the EM-1. Cheaper than the GH4, with IBIS.

    So, after all this looking and evaluation, I'm still not sure. There is definitely a part of me that still wants the G7. It just seems to be a sweet spot between size and performance. It is new and has all the bells and whistles, but is not weather sealed, and does not have a 1/8000 shutter or IBIS.

    I wish I knew how much I'd like and use wi-fi. I might not even ever use it, or I might find it extremely useful. And I wish I knew how much I'd like IBIS. Everyone seems gaga over it, but for the most part I seem to have gotten along fine without it. It seems of little use for most moving subjects, as you need shutter speed to stop action anyway. I have liked the OIS in the P100-300 though.

    Sorry for the long post. It helps me to put things in writing sometimes to help me think things through. Still thinking. And thanks for all the responses.
     
  17. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    These are all highly functional cameras that will not limit your photography in any real way. If you have been happy with the G-series Panasonic bodies, then it's really no worth it to switch to Olympus. So it's GH3 vs. G7. If you are into video, the G7 is obvious. If not, then this is much trickier. Unfortunately, DPR does have direct comparison images for the two bodies so it's hard to tell if there are any real advantages in IQ. How much do you really need/want Wifi? Supposedly the tracking is noticeably better, so that could be a real plus if you use that. In terms of feel, I suspect that the GH3 will handle well as it was once the flagship model.
     
  18. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Weather sealing, AF tracking - that pretty much leads you to the conclusion you've already made. GH4 or EM-1.

    At KEH.com the used EM-1 body only are $750-795 right now, the GH4 are not in stock right now, but the GH3 is between $572-599.
    6 month warranty. Another option perhaps?

    I personally prefer the Olympus setups, but the GH3 might be the one for you since you already are used to the Panasonic control schemes/layouts. Not sure about the AF tracking on the GH3 other than I know that the GH4 tracking is always rated superior to the GH3.
     
  19. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    I have an E-M5 and love it, but I wouldn't be buying one now unless price was the number 1 driver. It's already some way behind in firmware and will only get further behind. It also has the older shutter without EFCS (0s anti-shock). At that price point, the E-M10 is a better bet.

    If you want weather sealing, then the E-M1 is seems the obvious route. There are some great deals around and unless video is important to you, it's the best u43 camera around (IMHO).
     
  20. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    While you could do the E-M1 and the new 14-150 Olympus that is weather sealed I would still come back to your preference to Panasonic. There are rumors that Olympus is going to update the menus systems, but they have not really changed from the E-PM1. If you didn't like the menus on the E-PM1 then chances are you might not like them on the E-M1 either.

    A few points:
    • G7 has the electronic shutter to 1/16000, though rolling shutter might be an issue. I haven't found it to be for me with my GM5.
    • While it may not be the same as the GH4 AF system (no idea), but it does have the Panasonic Depth from Defocus system so I would be surprised if it's not close. The E-M1 has the best AF of any Olympus body, the GH4 is top for Panasonic. My guess is the GX8 / G7 would be the next best Panasonic and better than the GH3 or E-M5. AF and video are the biggest areas advancement over the past few years.
    • Many people use just WiFi, but I only use it when I'm away from home for more than a few days and want to transfer an image. It can be handy.