Please explain lenses to me on the GH2

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by Decius, May 13, 2011.

  1. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    Okay, so I'm very new to interchangeable lenses, however, I now know a bit.

    What I'm not clear on is listed in the following questions:

    1) The Nokton 25mm f/0.95 is a manual focus - why did they not allow it to use the GH2 autofocus? Is the autofocus feature on the GH2 only compatible with panasonic lenses?

    2) Are micro 4/3 lenses more expensive than other lenses of similar quality? For the lens mentioned above, for example, would it be possible to buy a cheaper lens that is sized differently and get an adapter? If so, what lens?

    3) Related to 2), is using an adapted lens inherently going to be less quality than using one that is made for micro 4/3?

    4) What are the most common lens mount sizes? Which ones are usually adapted to micro 4/3?

    5) I've read that if you get a lens that is too wide angle you get fisheye effect - on a GH2, the mm is doubled so if you have a 20mm it will effectively be 40mm. What's the minimum mm that permits you to avoid all distortion but have the widest view, and therefore, a shallower DOF?

    Thanks in advance. I just ordered the GH2 from Pana.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    1. Voigtlander don't make AF lenses. They make old school simple design manual focus lenses. The high quality manual focus cam is too heavy for an af motor to drive.
    2. The only other f0.95 available currently cost around $12000.00. The CV25 is a bargain. But generally yes, m4/3 lenses are more expensive. They're also generally of a higher average optical standard as well.
    3. No. That's up to the quality of the lens/adaptor combination. However some older lenses designed for film don't do well on digital sensors.
    4. Nearly every lens mount ever made can be adapted to m4/3 and adaptors are cheap on eBay. I wouldn't let popularity determine what lenses you buy. Ask for opinions from some of the very knowledgeable people here. Olympus OM, Nikon and Canon FD are popular.
    5. Sorry. you read wrong. Some lenses are better corrected than others certainly, but they dont go all "fisheye" on you. You probably mean pincushion or barrel distortion. This can usually be corrected in post processing nowadays if it bothers you.

    Wide lenses do not have shallower DOF. From the same shooting position and aperture longer lenses have shallower DOF. A smaller aperture number will give you shallower DOF for the same focal length and shooting position. If you keep the subject the same size in the frame when changing focal lengths ( ie: by moving shooting position) then DOF will be the same at the same aperture value.

    One of the reasons the Nocton you mention is so popular is that it has a very wide maximum aperture (small number of 0.95) which allows it to have a very narrow DOF compared to most other m4/3 lenses.

    The widest lens available for 4/3 is the Panasonic 7-14, which is a native lens. It is well corrected by the camera.

    Gordon
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    I'm confused about this - are you saying a 50mm lens will give a shallower DOF than a 20mm?

    I figured a longer lens telescopes more so it will make everything it points at more compressed and less distinguished from each other, hence, not blurring the background from the principal.

    So, for example, if there was a 50mm 0.95 and a 20mm 0.95, and if a shallower DOF leads to a more filmic look (which i believe it does), the 50mm would be preferable?

    That is in opposition of everything I have read and heard.
     
  4. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    I just did some more reading specific to what you said, and it appears you're right. That's very odd. Must have been the first place I read about it, I misunderstood or they misexplained.

    So to get that film DOF, what is a reasonable mm that doesn't force you to be 20 feet away from your subject? is a 20mm good? I've seen some wide shots that are not close ups and I don't quite like the effect of the 20mm - dof is pretty bad.
     
  5. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    Based on all the sample videos I've seen, the Nokton stands out in regards to the "filmic" feel it gives in my opinion.

    Is this almost specifically because of the superior aperture? Or is there some other factor I am not aware of?

    For example, I've compared it to the 20mm panasonic 1.7 (I think) and it is definitely more filmic.
     
  6. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    Are you talking about stills or video? Because the physics are the same but the applications are very different.

    With regards to one being more "film-like" ( the term I use, not necessarily correct) I agree that the Nocton feels more this way. However I doubt that it is because of either its focal length or aperture. There's a lot more to lens design than just the physical stuff like focal lengths and apertures. There's sharpness, fall off, bokeh, colour, contrast. All these affect the way a lens "draws" a scene. The Nocton draws like an old school film lens, because it basically is one. The Pannasonic is far more clinical, more corrected. It's not better or worse. Just different. If you look at the image thread for the Panny you'll see some brilliant images. Stunning stuff.

    Gordon
     
  7. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    I'm talking mostly video, although stills are important.

    So, would you say the GH2 + Nocton is the most price effective solution for film-like high def video?

    Other options include 7d, 5dmk2 but both those are more expensive, and I personally feel the GH2 quality is superior to the 7d and comparable to the 5dmk2 with more video modes.

    If not, what would you suggest?
     
  8. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    Yo should have a look at the luminous-landscape site. Lots of good info on gH2video and a thorough review of the Nocton.

    Gordon
     
  9. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    Good suggestion - they cover pretty much everything you said about the stuff, except they do press that the aperture on the Nokton is what really gives it the DOF.

    Any opinions on this?
     
  10. Gwendal

    Gwendal Mu-43 Veteran

    300
    Jun 6, 2010
    Regarding Gordon's comment - it should also be mentioned that the size of the adapter varies a lot - lenses in M mount, for instance, have a very thin adapter while the one for Nikon is much bigger. If "size matters" for you, you should keep it in mind. Also, it seems that rangefinder lenses are usually smaller and lighter than equivalent SLR lenses. So while it is true that all lenses can be adapted to m43, rangefinder lenses in M mount have an advantage here. Hope it helps !
     
  11. Luke

    Luke Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 30, 2010
    Milwaukee, WI
    Luke
    It sounds like super shallow dof and isolation of the subject is the original poster's main goal. If I am reading you correctly, the aperture is the main thing.

    It's only meant to be a lens test, but it is so gorgeous and film-like you should really watch this.... The Pier: Test shots done with Noktor F0.95 50mm with Panasonic GF1 - Panasonic GH1 & micro4/3 Community on Vimeo

    It looks like what you want from your description. Talk about film-like. That looks like professional cinema quality to this novice user.
     
  12. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Many people are doing very "filmic" video work with inexpensive adapted lenses on Micro 4/3 bodies. Check out some of the videos by one of our members here: Seb Farges on Vimeo. He lists the lenses he uses, and most are quite affordable and readily available on Ebay.
     
  13. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    I didn't actually quite like that video - and mind you, it's the 50mm which for some reason does not look as good as the 25mm. I read up on the 50mm and for some reason it apparently isn't that useable at .95 (which is probably why it's not more popular).

    You can get one of those on ebay for something like 600 bucks.

    [ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdiZMqhc5Cs]YouTube - Movember Gala Party: GH2[/ame]

    This is an example of the kind of quality I'm talking about. This is with the GH2 + 25mm .95

    That's pretty close to film.

    However, I've noticed that with almost every one of the dslrs - including the 5dmk2 - that wide shots with movements, such as people or cars, just does not look like film. I don't know how to recreate that yet and have not seen any combination of lenses or cameras that can do that. (would be open to suggestions on that)

    So I'm settling for what I can accomplish with digital, which appears to be the GH2 + Nokton.

    If you watch this video though, the close ups are amazing - looks very very close to film imo.
     
  14. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    Thanks Amin - looking them up.
     
  15. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    K, i'm just going to throw out questions as I encounter them.

    Regarding this video:

    [ame=http://vimeo.com/23477723]MOBY "After" directed by Seb Farges (Saatchi & Saatchi music video challenge) on Vimeo[/ame]

    The black cropping on all four corners - is that because of the lens or is that purposeful? Because that video looks beautifully filmic, but isn't useable cause of the corners if it's the lens.
     
  16. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    That c-mount stuff looks pretty good for the most part. Do you always get vignetting on a c-mount -> 4/3?
     
  17. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    It depends on the specific lens, but many of the C mount lenses vignette when shot at their maximum aperture. I think if you do some digging, you'll find a lot of options. For example, just about any old 50mm SLR lens is going to give you great performance and depth of field control for video. It's just a matter of the focal length you want. It's when you want a lens wider than 35mm and faster than f/2 with no vignetting that options become limited and the prices start rising.
     
  18. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    Can you make a recommendation on a solution for film like video in a c-mount solution on the GH2? I was aiming for the Nokton because I thought the aperture provides the best film look but after seeing the videos at that link, he's getting results I like better for 60 bucks, so now I'm back at square one.

    I don't even know if there is a difference between c-mounts.
     
  19. Decius

    Decius Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    May 13, 2011
    Oh, and are c-mounts particular to a certain industry? Like, why do those lenses provide a filmic look?
     
  20. sprinke

    sprinke Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 5, 2011
    Pasadena, CA
    Debi
    Decius ... I'm following this thread with interest, but it occurs to me that perhaps you might have better luck asking your questions on Vimeo's forums. There are probably a lot more people there using the GH2 for video, people who have background and training in film.