Photography under threat: The shooting party’s over

Djarum

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DJ,
Cosina is 100% right.
Cosina, you know me better than that to even think I am the kind of man that just let's things pass.
As a Mod on this forum, I have to keep myself and others in a respectful nature. Therefore, I will state that I agree with you but will not engage the pressure points that I have on the subject.
AND...this conversation is fine with me as I feel that this issue is international.

Cosina, your on point and I'm proud to know ya.....someday, we need to drink a few pints...
I never said I disagreed. I actually completely agree. I just never realized that there was such a spark into the subject.

Dj
 

Justified_Sinner

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I was stopped by the police and security TWICE on Sunday for photographing building sites, threatened with violence by two scumbags for photographing a statue and shouted at by an old man for photographing his garden fence.

All on one day.

The way forward is to just keep taking pictures.

The police stopped me for this crap shot:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414425619/" title="Steel Pipe Frame by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
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"500" height="375" alt="Steel Pipe Frame" /></a>

The security guard tried to stop me taking this, though I was standing on a public street and shooting in a door:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414760801/" title="Warehouse Roof by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
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"375" height="500" alt="Warehouse Roof" /></a>

The scumbags threatened me with violence and the theft of my camera for taking this:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414800573/" title="Michaelangelo Of Industry by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
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"500" height="375" alt="Michaelangelo Of Industry" /></a>

And the old git shouted at me for taking this:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414745811/" title="Aquamarine Fence by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
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"500" height="375" alt="Aquamarine Fence" /></a>

(All taken with a variety of Auto 110 lenses on the G1)
 

BillN

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On a lighter note, and to not in anyway detract from the passion of the above arguments, I was asked to stop taking photographs in a French Supermarket a couple of weeks ago and told to delete the photos. Obviously "the management" did not want me to steal their "spectacular design ideas"

On a sneaky point I now carry a few CF cards with me and swop them out "in store" after I have taken a few shots

Maybe the following image sums them up in a sort of way, (taken in the supermarket) ........ .... maybe not really as it could be the reverse of the point - but you get my implication(s)

toilet cleaner and the stuff that energises the "stuff" in septic tanks, (the "French" main sewage system)

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[/url][/IMG]
 

Justified_Sinner

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Point of interest. I have no idea about France, but in the UK, NOBODY can tell you to delete photographs without a court order!

There is very useful PDF about the law in the UK here:

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/uk-photographers-rights-v2/

(The author asks that you be directed to this link and then download the PDF from that page.)

I've been trying to learn this by heart! It certainly helped me deal with the police on Sunday and they drove off, content but probably feeling a bit silly.
 

goldenlight

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I was stopped by the police and security TWICE on Sunday for photographing building sites, threatened with violence by two scumbags for photographing a statue and shouted at by an old man for photographing his garden fence.

All on one day.

The way forward is to just keep taking pictures.

The police stopped me for this crap shot:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414425619/" title="Steel Pipe Frame by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
"500" height="375" alt="Steel Pipe Frame" /></a>

The security guard tried to stop me taking this, though I was standing on a public street and shooting in a door:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414760801/" title="Warehouse Roof by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
"375" height="500" alt="Warehouse Roof" /></a>

The scumbags threatened me with violence and the theft of my camera for taking this:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414800573/" title="Michaelangelo Of Industry by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
"500" height="375" alt="Michaelangelo Of Industry" /></a>

And the old git shouted at me for taking this:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_justified_sinner/4414745811/" title="Aquamarine Fence by the justified sinner, on Flickr">
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
"500" height="375" alt="Aquamarine Fence" /></a>

(All taken with a variety of Auto 110 lenses on the G1)
Makes you wonder what they are all afraid of, doesn't it. In fact, it's this atmosphere of fear that worries me - it's at times like this that people are willing to trade rights and freedom for perceived security and that's exactly what an Orwellian government exploits. We're not there yet but the omens are not good.
 

goldenlight

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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Ben Franklin
I use that quote as my signature line on another forum. Good old Ben - now there's a man who would get my vote!
 

goldenlight

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On a lighter note, and to not in anyway detract from the passion of the above arguments, I was asked to stop taking photographs in a French Supermarket a couple of weeks ago and told to delete the photos. Obviously "the management" did not want me to steal their "spectacular design ideas"

On a sneaky point I now carry a few CF cards with me and swop them out "in store" after I have taken a few shots

Maybe the following image sums them up in a sort of way, (taken in the supermarket) ........ .... maybe not really as it could be the reverse of the point - but you get my implication(s)

toilet cleaner and the stuff that energises the "stuff" in septic tanks, (the "French" main sewage system)

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
[/url][/IMG]
Symbolises the cr*p we have to deal with - maybe we should look upon our role as society's cleaning agents!
 

goldenlight

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But let's not get it all out of proportion. The demonstration that I photographed was held to draw attention to the plight of the people of the Congo - our problems pale into insignificance by comparison. There's a hell of a lot that is right with our great Western democracies, and that's worth fighting to save. It's important that campagners for causes like the Congo retain their right to draw attention to the issues through demonstartions, and it's important that photographers retain the right to photograph these events and document all else in society.
 

Djarum

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But let's not get it all out of proportion. The demonstration that I photographed was held to draw attention to the plight of the people of the Congo - our problems pale into insignificance by comparison. There's a hell of a lot that is right with our great Western democracies, and that's worth fighting to save. It's important that campagners for causes like the Congo retain their right to draw attention to the issues through demonstartions, and it's important that photographers retain the right to photograph these events and document all else in society.

Obviously there are worse tragedies in the world than a government denying public photography. But here in the states, free press, free speach, and free expression (isn't that what photography, to some degree is, an art, an expression?) is what our founding fathers faught for, and what our currently military forces fight to maintain.

I realize people who don't live in the states or don't understand the citizen's mentality here in the states and might say "big deal". Globally, it may be insignificant. But as insignificant as it is, it plays on the core principals of our institutions, our democracy, and our freedoms.

We shouldn't take lightly our feedoms and rights being reduced.
 

BillN

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The Russians are adding to their "Democratic" Rights, daily

Mr Blair and Mr Brown and their PC "do gooders" have and are taking ours away, daily

They creep up on you in an "insipid" way

To quote one Russian

"I'm glad I don't live permanently in the UK as you have more controls now than we have"
- well not really, probably, but I know what he means and it's not funny
 

Streetshooter

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Bill,
My brother in law shoots in Russia, Tula region.
He did a shoot for an ad agency in a park.
He was detained about 8 hours. They took his CF cards and did not return them..
Even tho the director was with him, they kept the cards.
He's nervous now but still works.
It's a shame that Human Rights are in jepordy all over the planet.
 

cosinaphile

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fascism is creeping into the structures and lives of all the so called western democracies

usa australia canada the uk,......... orwells nightmare is coming true

in the usa demonstrations are corralled into "free speech zones" away from conventions and places that would cause ultra right wing nationalists and religious zombies embarrassment or duress

the right that the magna carta in 1215 gave the citizens of the better nations of the west , no longer applies in the usa and the govt may sieze you and hold you for the rest of your life without bringing charges or even informing your family of it ,is that freedom?

our controlled media will not even mention this sprial into fascism and the nightmare of coming controlled police state, instead endlessly telling us who tiger woods is banging this week

instead of praising the "western democracies" for being better that central African killing fields,our future and our childrens future would be better served by being angry at the assaut on wages freedom speech photography ,travel and anger at the survaillance societies and loss of privacy in the name of "security"
the biggest threat to you life and liberty, at this juncture in history, is your own leaders, if you dont get that that , then its time to start paying attention , and stop bathing your brain with patriotic nonsense about how arab boogie men are hiding under your bed and mental masturbation lie about great the west is .
i love america , that why i oppose internal treason.

our live and liberties and freedoms are being eroded and smashed by fascist weasels

how great is that
 

BillN

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Unfortunately we voted for the "buggers" - no offence to anyone, even "buggers"

and pete - please keep your "small" secrets to yourself - this is a mixed forum
(for the avoidance of doubt - it's a joke - I'm sure your camera is bigger than that!)
 

pete

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:) my secrets may be small but they are mighty posters of my life, even though I maybe be the only one who sees them... but I do care whats going on, however small or big it is....and I didnt vote for the last bugger....no offense
 

goldenlight

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Obviously there are worse tragedies in the world than a government denying public photography. But here in the states, free press, free speach, and free expression (isn't that what photography, to some degree is, an art, an expression?) is what our founding fathers faught for, and what our currently military forces fight to maintain.

I realize people who don't live in the states or don't understand the citizen's mentality here in the states and might say "big deal". Globally, it may be insignificant. But as insignificant as it is, it plays on the core principals of our institutions, our democracy, and our freedoms.

We shouldn't take lightly our feedoms and rights being reduced.
Please don't take me wrong; I do like to counter balance my own arguements, if only go give them more creedence and greater strength. I certainly do not wish to play down the importance of this issue - indeed, I seem to have adopted it as something of a personal crusade. Apart from banging on about it endlessly on various forums I've also had an article published in Amateur Photographer magazine with another awaiting publication. I've written to our Home Secretary and the Metropolitan Police Commissioner rgarding this issue on several occasions. I've attended a street protest for the first time in my life and am becomming impatient for more, to the extent that I'm considering what active protest I might make as an individual. I'm not frightened of imprisonment if it ultimately comes to that because, as a pensioner, my income (to support my family) is guaranteed whether I'm at liberty or not. Whatever action I take it will be peaceful because I abhor violence. However, I hope the overused phase "over my dead body" does not prove to be predictive.....but if that's what it takes. :mad:

I love my country, our heritage, freedoms and traditions and I will not stand idly by as they are trampled roughshod by cynical politicians manipulating a wave of public fear and suspicion to further their Orwellian ambitions.
 

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