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Photography under threat: The shooting party’s over

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by BillN, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. BillN

    BillN Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 19, 2010
    SW France
    • Like Like x 3
  2. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Yes, a sobering article and well worth reading if you care at all about freedom to photograph in public in the UK. But the shooting part over? Not for me it isn't. Sure it might be more difficult, but that merely makes me want to make it difficult for them, too. One thing our spineless politicians have forgotten about the British is that we don't give in easilly - not to terrorists and not to disreputable politicians and their puppet policemen. :mad: 
    • Like Like x 1
  3. pete

    pete Mu-43 Regular

    Feb 26, 2010
    Phoenix, Az
    Right on Golden: it has started somewhat in the U.S. also. I know some museums are starting to ban photography (an art museum too), just cant believe that. But its a start. Too much govenment!....Ill not say more. Thanks Bill for the article.

  4. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Whenever I read of what's happening in the UK and Europe lately, the more it reminds me of Michael Moorcock's science fiction novels about the dark and evil empires that the UK and Europe had become.


  5. Brian S

    Brian S Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Apr 11, 2009
    The Smithsonian allows photography of art works acquired with public funds. If they are showing works that are on loan, they abide by the wishes of the owner.

    So will a tourist find themselves unable to use a Camera in the UK? I have to believe that will cause a lot of confusion.

    "The End of All Songs".
  6. Brian Mosley

    Brian Mosley Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    John, I recognise the British from your description... just don't get me started about the current state of affairs :mad: 


  7. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
    ive copied and pasted this forum entry from the ep1 forum, as it recounts a vile encounter i had with some brain dead pinkeretons in the area near nyc where i live , i believe it has a little relevance here in this thread exploring the encroaching fascism of the so called "western"... " democracies" and its assault on freedoms of which photography is one ,....................

    Re: Photography is not a crime
    « Reply #2 on: August 28, 2009, 08:26:04 PM »
    Quote (selected)ModifyRemove

    Once i was stopped for taking pictures of trees and station architecture in a metro north station. the idiot metro north cop who first questioned me gave me the third degree asking where i was going, why was i taking pictures.he took my US passport[ my preferred id] told me to stay seated and ran my info thru his patrolcar computer.

    He came back and told me to sit tight and wait for federal officers. I was polite and corgial but made no secret of my annoyance at being challenged and delayed. Eventually i had five policemen\ agents surrounding me going thru my nikon d80 and asking personal questions about the hundreds of photos

    when they were done 2 and a half hrs later, i asked if i was in any way breaking the law or was i free to go . they were done with me so asked permission to say a few words to the assembeled officers , i told them that they all f*****g knew from the very beginning i was not a terrorist , that i didnt even work for the federal govt ! and seeing this meaningless charade of nonsense " police work" that violated me , did nothing to combat americas security risks, wasted tax money and resources and my time and violated my privacy , and if anything was learned in the preceeding hours it was the depths of shame and encroching police state fascism my beloved america has been infected with .

    i also told them with men like them at the front lines of the nonsensical war on terror, it was a sure bet the treasonists who murder americans would remain at large . they said nothing as they stated blankly thru me while one of them picked his nose. some snickered and chuckled as they turned to leave.

    i felt a chill and a nausea and a deep unease that stayed with me the remainder of the evening.

    yes voyager , i know exactkly what your talking about.

    « Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 11:38:51 PM by cosinaphile »
  8. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    This has started in the colony a few years ago. The way I look at it is...as a streetshooter, it thins the herd. I'm not saying I agree with it...it's actually against our Constitution.
    What I mean is, when you see some street work from the colony, you have to realize that the shooter has guts to go after it. Many street shooters have stopped and now do other less challenging things.

    The days of Winogrand, Evans etc are long gone....
    My friend is a respected fashion shooter. He's back in Philly now from NY. He had some major issues with a modeling school. He was shooting portfolios of young woman/girls....needless to say, that didn't go over to well.
    Back to the public place situation. The world has changed. We have to learn to adapt but not stop what we do, or THEY win.....
    Here in the colony, we don't stop...we just improvise and move on....
  9. chalkdust

    chalkdust Mu-43 Regular

    Dec 29, 2009
    McKinney, Texas
    I am mindful of people's privacy when I take my camera out in public. However, when I am in public, so are other people. Public is public. I am particularly careful about photographing other people's children in situations in which cameras are not plentiful. I respect museums and their protection of exhibits, some of which do not take well to repeated flash.

    Mindfulness is good. We keep plenty of other facts in mind as we photograph. Privacy and protection of rare things and children are good things to keep in mind too.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
    they win? only if you lay down shooter and concede victory to these creepy domestic terrorist who have hijacked america , and are turning it into the nightmare that orwell warned of ,

    streetshooter.... you have honored too many brave soldiers.. pows and mias , good cops and brave firemen to to just concede victory to these fascist freaks.are you really ok with this new american police state???to just accept ,it rather than loudly reject it? if so then i tremble to think that every american who made the ultimate sacrifice has only died in vain ,...... nations can be attacked from within .this is americas nightmare , uk as well

    if we let a handful of fascist creeps define our new world in this brand of mickey mouse coca cola fascism that being smeared across the landscapes of america the uk etc, then
    we are as treasonist to ourselves and children as the sick elitist monkeys who promote these agendas

    this bs startd with the false flag attacks in the us and uk 10 years ago ,the mass murderers in govt are still at large , if it takes being denied permission to take a public picture to get people to wake the f**k up to what in really going on in front of their faces, then so be it, i for one do not accept this as the way thing are ,

    from where i stand, it is the corporate fascist state ....Washington freaks.... a criminal military apparatus and sadly yellow media for this nightmare

    if you're not angry ...........your not paying attention
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    A little over 6 years ago, I was taking an art history class in my last year of Bachelors(the college I went to required an "art" class even for an engineering degree).

    At any rate, one of the projects we had was to take pictures of architecture around town that was influenced by greek or roman art.

    We have a small federal court house here that has some greek style columns and sculpture. I had a 28mm film camera, and I started snapping away. After a few minutes, some security guards came out and asked me to stop. It was part of their new security for federal buildings after 9/11. I was really suprised they didn't take my film, and if they had, I wouldn't have been able to finish the project.

    I know here in the states, there is always controversey, especially with the paparazzi and famous celebrities. I watch TMZ on occasion, and I do think the photographers at times can go too far.

    I would hate however to visit NYC and not be able to take pictures in public, especially the architecture.
  12. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA

    Stirred up a hornets nest have we?
  13. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    Cosina is 100% right.
    Cosina, you know me better than that to even think I am the kind of man that just let's things pass.
    As a Mod on this forum, I have to keep myself and others in a respectful nature. Therefore, I will state that I agree with you but will not engage the pressure points that I have on the subject.
    AND...this conversation is fine with me as I feel that this issue is international.

    Cosina, your on point and I'm proud to know ya.....someday, we need to drink a few pints...
    • Like Like x 1
  14. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
    shooter i 100 % understand your position as moderator here .

    ive followed your work on your website and thru the forums and have considered
    you one of the greatest patriots working in photography that i know of .
    thank you for the courage you demonstrate in being supportive of the post above.
    your work as a photographer and documentarian of brave unsung americans moves me deeply, so im proud to know you as well.......,id be honored to have a drink with ya too

  15. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    This crap really got it's start back with Mapplethorpe under the watchful eye of Helms...then on to Sturges....What a disgrace to the Constitution.
    They use terrorism to justify the means to an end. That's crapola!

    With what I've experienced with vets and returning wounded soldiers, it sickens me to think that they, the defenders of the Constitution haven't a clue as to what the government powers are doing.
    I love my country Cosina, I fought for it and would do so again. But I fear my government!
    • Like Like x 1
  16. curtisls87

    curtisls87 Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    Jan 7, 2010
    Manhattan, KS USA
    Curt Schimmels
    I cannot speak specifically about rights in the UK with regard to photography, but in the US, it is considered a part of your Constitutional right to take a picture in public, of anything or anyone.
    There was a case in California a few years back where Barbra Streisand sued a man who, by documenting the California coast, photographing from a plane, took and published pictures that included her seafront property. Her case was dismissed outright.
    I encourage every photographer to know their rights as they apply in their country, and be prepared to define them, if needed. Here is a link to a "photographers rights" card, that an attorney provides
  17. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
    the treatment of veterans is a continuing national shame,the collective suffering , and pentagons misuse of their service sickens me , many dont have a clue as to whats going on , but many do.......
  18. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    Thanks curtis....

    An organization that defends these rights is ASMP, here in the colony.

    I was a member but dropped after I stopped that kind of work...maybe I made a mistake.....They need all the support they can get....

    You speak of the Constitutional right to make photos and you are right. Unfortunately, since 911, Homeland Security defines those rights and may not entirely agree with you. I do but there are those amongst us that don't give a rats ass about your rights. Those people mostly are in and around Washington DC. If your a veteran you understand, if not, ask a vet and you'll get it quick.
  19. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
    curtis , the pdf was informative , thanks
  20. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Seems to be a real international problem. The thing is, not to give up. We won't, not in Britain. This "nation of shopkeepers" suffers mostly from apathy. But once aroused we are stubborn, truculant and stoic. We should not be underestimated. I would rather die than lose my freedom, and I do not say that lightly. I would rather lose my physical freedom than lose the freedom in my head. Those sentiments are aimed equally at terrorists and the misguided authorities in my country. Ain't any of them going to win!

    In fact, by nature I am more of a landscaper than a street shooter, but this very controversy has got me interested in the streets. Last year I attended a demo for photographer's rights outside NSY - the first demo in which I have ever participated in 54 years. On my way home I chanced upon an unrelated demo in the form of a street march. Normally that sort of thing didn't grab my attention but, given that a new law had come into force that very day which could be construed as making it illegal to photograph police officers, I thought what the hell, I'm going to follow this march and snap as many of them up close as I can.

    I have to say they were very tolerant of me - maybe it was because of the "I'm a photographer, not a terrorist" sticker that I was still wearing - but I'd made up my mind that either I was going to cover that march or I was going for a ride in the back of a police van! Here's a few pics, not :43: but 4/3 nonetheless (Olympus E3)





    So you see, rather than driving me off the streets all they've succeeded in doing is making me into an ocassional street shooter, maybe not a particularly good one, but at least I'm there. And staying!
    • Like Like x 2
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