Photographers Just Don't Understand.

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RRRoger

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I did some Googling on the GH4 and whether it was for reviews or images, it's clear that Panasonic is a victim of its own success. Every search query resulted in reviews or images of the GH4 as a video camera first and foremost. Panasonic has so heavily emphasised the 4K capability, that the still camera feature has been lost in the noise generated by this one aspect. So if you don't see or hear much about the GH4 as a stills camera, I think it's pretty clear as to why. If you want information on the GH4, just check video forums, blogs and the like, there might be snippets about taking still shots. And it is clearly recognised as a 'revolutionary' camera, in the video world.
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True enough, but I was satisfied with the Video from the GH3.
I bought my GH4 for better stills, especially for action shots and for use in poor light.
The fact that the GH4 has improved in every way is a real bonus for me as I mostly shoot 1080 P60 Video.
I also like only needing a camera mounted external mic and light weight TriPod.
That and a 12-35 Lumix lens makes for a pretty compact package,
the smallest one I care to own due to my large hands.
 

GFFPhoto

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For those wanting to get into video with the GH4, here's a link to a site that will provide information on a few accessories that you might like to purchase along with your camera: http://cheesycam.com/.
Don't be intimidated Ray, you can start getting into video without any of that stuff. Vimeo has a great film school that will de-mystify the process and make it much more approachable.
https://vimeo.com/videoschool/101

Enjoy!
 

OzRay

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Don't be intimidated Ray, you can start getting into video without any of that stuff. Vimeo has a great film school that will de-mystify the process and make it much more approachable.
https://vimeo.com/videoschool/101

Enjoy!
I'm not in the least bit intimidated, it's called research, know your product and requirements, before committing to a path. I'm also registered with Vimeo. To do video 'properly', you need more than just a camera and a lens, and the likes of Movie Maker. It doesn't matter what sort of camera you're using, even a GoPro, it will require lots of pre and post work; the camera is just a small part of the production. To suggest otherwise, is like suggesting that in fashion photography the camera is the most important component.
 

Replytoken

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All right, time to take a break from :popcorm2: and jump back into the pool. Like most of us here, I appreciate quality. When something is important is important to me, I try to buy as best I can within my budget, or sometimes even a bit over my budget. I fully understand and appreciate craftsmanship, and typically shoot raw files regardless of their output, since I never know what images might be printed as large as 20"x30". And while I do this because it is important to me, I do not lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of folks seeing my work are doing so on smartphones, tablets and uncalibrated computer monitors.This is not going to stop me from shooting raw files, and I am aware that downsampling may improve the quality of an image, but given the size of even 720p video files, and the compression that may be applied by the host web site, I am starting to believe that watching 4K video on a smartphone is akin to eating SOS made with Wagu filet mignon (continuing with the food analogies). Yes, bandwidth will eventually increase, but I suspect that we will probably be debating the GH7 by then (if we are lucky). This certainly does not mean that folks should not be shooting 4K video, for viewing now or in the future, but it is hard not to be mindful of how the audiences for many of these videos will be watching them. But, it does make me wonder what percentage of GH4 buyers are currently able to extract every last ounce of IQ from them. I do not doubt there are a number of them, but given the viewing devices the majority of folks are using, it is going to be much harder to demonstrate that ability to play at 11!

And for a quick breath of fresh air on a related note, I recommend reading this timely post from Ming Thein: http://blog.mingthein.com/2014/06/09/achieving-visual-consistency/ , especially the very last sentence of the post.

--Ken
 

GFFPhoto

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I'm not in the least bit intimidated, it's called research, know your product and requirements, before committing to a path. I'm also registered with Vimeo. To do video 'properly', you need more than just a camera and a lens, and the likes of Movie Maker. It doesn't matter what sort of camera you're using, even a GoPro, it will require lots of pre and post work; the camera is just a small part of the production. To suggest otherwise, is like suggesting that in fashion photography the camera is the most important component.
Relax Ray, just watch some of those videos I linked. Just take it a step at a time. You are up to the task of video if you want to be :smile:
 

Fri13

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I thin most mu43 members would choose the E-M1 if they were getting a free camera without the ability to sell it. It seems that most people think the E-M1 is the most significant m4/3 camera release of the past year. I disagree. Even if I prefer my E-M1 over the GH4 I cannot understate it's significance. 4k is no joke and the GH4 is amazing. it is far from perfect. The EVF really should have been on par with E-M1 but while the E-m1 is an iterative improvement over the E-M5 the same cannot be said of the Gh4 over the GH3. The GH4 is revolutionary much like the GH2 but more so. The GH2 Hacked was amazing but the stock GH4 is revolutionary.
It is about control layout and ergonomics too! When you are in quick situations, faster you can make adjustments then more time and possibilities you have to capture moment.

Of course some people might shoot in A/S or even P modes but EM-1 has so far been best what I have laid hands on when it comes ergonomics and controls. I shoot usually in two modes, M and Movie. And changing quickly all exposure and AWB settings is so easy that people just undermine the speed over technical specs like 1080p.

[quoye]DFD is an incredible improvement in mirrorless tech. Panny has undersold it significantly. I truly believe it is better then the pdaf of the E-M1 and will be able to confirm in a week or so hopefully. The 1.4 firmware update was the best so far so I am not sure atm but I'll try to update soon.

I am too tired to continue atm. I'll write more in the next few days ins.[/QUOTE]

Yes, DFD is improvement for low light and I am expecting Olympus will get it from Panasonic for EM-2 or EM-1n models. Still it isn't such a revolution that it would render EM-1 now obsolete in AF speed.

The AF speed to single shot or continues shot isn't problem, it is in tracking subject accurately without missing the lock of subject and we need 99% certainty for that.
 

OzRay

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Relax Ray, just watch some of those videos I linked. Just take it a step at a time. You are up to the task of video if you want to be :smile:
I really don't need to look at the videos, as I understand what's required. My current issue is what do I actually want to do, not how do I go about doing something. Just like still photography, it's not a case of what camera or lens do I need, it's what do I want to photograph that needs to be answered first.
 

GFFPhoto

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I really don't need to look at the videos, as I understand what's required. My current issue is what do I actually want to do, not how do I go about doing something. Just like still photography, it's not a case of what camera or lens do I need, it's what do I want to photograph that needs to be answered first.
Just trying to help :smile:
 

humzai

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Hey fortwodriver what productions are using 8k cameras? The arri alexaa is 2k and is and has been used in a hell of a lot of productions and arri doesn't even have a 4k camera out. What 8k cameras are you talking about? I'm curious about the veracity of your claims.
 

OzRay

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I sometimes wonder if 4K and rumoured 8K etc is just another version of the MP race that we endured over the last decade, but which has really settled down in the last few years. There are some interesting articles on 4K, this being one: http://vmi.tv/training/useful-stuff/4K_The_Case_for_and_against. Just consider the paragraph on file sizes for a moment.
 

GFFPhoto

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Perhaps but no one really gives a damn about 4k yet
I think some people just love their cameras and want to downplay anything that their particular model can't do. This thread has gone from the naysayers claiming "The GH4 and 4K is just too much for most people" to "The GH4 and 4K isn't that big of a deal" and back... and forth... and back... and forth. Its almost like they feel threatened. But thats silly. Why would they be?

You are correct in your observation that Panasonic has gotten less buzz in these forums than other cameras have, but lets be honest... the Olympus reality distortion field is in full effect here. I think that the huge demand for this camera shows that many people recognize what it brings to the table. Panasonic and Sony are by far the two most innovative camera companies right now, and I think Panasonic is kind of sneaking up on people. I am continuously impressed by the cameras Panasonic releases. Not only is the GH4 pretty spectacular (especially at its price), but the upcoming LX8 would have been unthinkable just a year ago. I think this is just one of those times where you are clued in to the good stuff it before its cool and mainstream.
 

GFFPhoto

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I sometimes wonder if 4K and rumoured 8K etc is just another version of the MP race that we endured over the last decade, but which has really settled down in the last few years. There are some interesting articles on 4K, this being one: http://vmi.tv/training/useful-stuff/4K_The_Case_for_and_against. Just consider the paragraph on file sizes for a moment.
I hear ya Ray. Some men want the power of a big V8, while other folks want the fuel economy of a tiny four banger. There is no "right" choice for everyone.
 
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The funny thing about the current Panasonic persecution complex that seems to exist here now is that a few years ago it was cameras like the GF1, GH1 and then GH2 that were the duck's nuts and Olympus was the poor cousin of Micro 4/3.
 

GFFPhoto

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The funny thing about the current Panasonic persecution complex that seems to exist here now is that a few years ago it was cameras like the GF1, GH1 and then GH2 that were the duck's nuts and Olympus was the poor cousin of Micro 4/3.
Like I said earlier, above average products and great design casts a spell on people, and Olympus has both.
 

piggsy

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I sometimes wonder if 4K and rumoured 8K etc is just another version of the MP race that we endured over the last decade, but which has really settled down in the last few years. There are some interesting articles on 4K, this being one: http://vmi.tv/training/useful-stuff/4K_The_Case_for_and_against. Just consider the paragraph on file sizes for a moment.
I dunno, is it a generational cohort thing? There is a certain "old man yells at cloud" quality to it - I mean - just the weird preoccupation with fixed figures like 1.7tb/hr for scare factor. See how that sounds in 18 months! Your first thought will probably be, "Only 1.7tb/hr? is that going to be enough to be any good?" :D
 

OzRay

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It shouldn't be an us vs them attitude, both Panasonic and Olympus produce outstanding cameras and lenses. Both have a slightly different focus on how they go about things, more often than not, based on their heritage and future path. Olympus has been an optical/photography company since inception, Panasonic has been predominantly a diversified electronics company (like Sony), so it's not unexpected that there will be differences in how each approach cameras, their design and utility. Olympus has made it very clear that their focus was not on video at the moment, which is diametrically opposite to what Panasonic is doing. I'd hate for both to be doing exactly the same.
 
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