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Photographers Just Don't Understand.

Discussion in 'Back Room' started by humzai, Jun 7, 2014.

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  1. val

    val Mu-43 Top Veteran

    548
    Dec 19, 2013
    Australia
    William
    phFfo5q.png
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  2. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
  3. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter Subscribing Member

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    To be fair, this has been a very civil discussion. Many forums would have been reduced to feral noises by this point.
     
  4. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    No you still dont get it... what is being filmed is more important than how its filmed

    Hollywood has a history post ww2 of using 'novel' formats to fight off competition from TV... they thought that if if it was bigger /wider/in 3d then it would drag folks away from their shiny new TV

    Washed out colors in 3 kings.. one of my favourite movies... has nothing to do with shot format, but with PP. Choice of colour palette is an artistic not technical choice....same for michael mann and many others

    Raging Bull supposedly was shot in B/w because scorsese was concerned that colour footage from the 60's was already fading.. that maybe hype... but it was a decision artistically driven not by technology

    The original star wars was shot on 35mm stock.. apparently on a panavision PSR35 which would have had an effective sensor size not dissimilar to a micro 4/3 sensor. People lined up for the effects.. the content... not the format

    I am guessing I am older than you... maybe I look at the world differently.. I have lived my adult life working in the tech field... I have had the moment when I realised that the photoshop file I was working on was bigger than the hard drive on my first mac

    . Access to tools is a wonderful thing and I am sure 5 years down the line all cameras will have 4K and some will have 8K.... but owning a tool and being able to make use of it are a long way apart

    K
     
  5. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
  6. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Our current Government has ensured that we'll only be dreaming of broadband, not thinking about it.

    As for the GH4 - I'd like to play with one. I hear it's a great sensor, with awesome AF...

    Sounds like at least 2 attributes that are good for stills.

    Z..
     
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  7. Livnius

    Livnius Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Melbourne. Australia
    Joe
    Kevin, I think GFFPhoto made it abundantly clear in his his very paragraph that he agrees that content, the narrative, the story being told, rather than the tech is what's really important....a point which I believe we all GET despite your protestations.

    Having a great story to tell AND having great tech as a tool with which to aid telling it. The 2 do not have to be mutually exclusive. It really is is a very simple point people are trying to make here Kevin.
     
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  8. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Exactly, understanding the effort that goes into accomplishing a coherent video is what needs to be understood. It's an excellent cheat sheet that's described in the video, but then you could do a complete video on each of the points describing how to fulfil them.
     
  9. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    Kevin, I get it. I just disagree. I don't think a bad story is saved by good footage (why do I have to keep saying that part?), but I think better footage makes a difference. Better resolution, better dynamic range, better latitude in post. All of that. Absolutely. Makes a difference. Its fine if you think it doesn't make a bit of difference... but I think it does.


    But why are you harping on this point...

    If you feel you can't make use of the greater resolution, dynamic range, and latitude you get from better footage, then don't buy a GH4. But thats really about you and your assessment of your own skills. If you feel you don't have the skills that merit video better than your EM1 produces, then stick with that, but generalizing that to others doesn't really follow logically. The assumption and continuous assertion that it is somehow "more" than someone else needs or can make use of is ridiculous. Just because you feel you "can't" doesn't mean others can't.

    I have no illusions about being the next Scorsese, but I can take a GH4, put it on a GorillaPod, point it out my living room window at the hummingbird feeder and make fantastic use of the 96fps and 4K video. I can then take those clips and import them into FCPX, massage them a bit, put some music behind it (Chopin? Schumann?) and in a few hours have something that will delight myself, my friends, my family, and the judges at Cannes. OK, I'm kidding about the Cannes part, but I have no illusions about being the next Scorsese, so I'm good with just delighting myself, my friends, and my family. The GH4 will make a HUGE difference over the 60fps 1080p footage I get now from my GX7. What I can do now, I can do much better with a GH4. No extra rig, no big studio lights, just what I have currently and a GH4.
     
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  10. I guess that is my response to the question first posed in this thread. Panasonc's top-of-the-line stills camera is also an all-singing, all-dancing video camera. If they produced a model being primarily the former and less of the latter, what would the price point be, would it have IBIS, etc. For Panasonic to sell their GH cameras to photographers as well as videographers, that is the biggest issue that I can see.
     
  11. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Actually, I'd say Pana have done the smartest thing they could - saw that Oly already has great stills bodies, but not so much in terms of video, and has filled the hole...

    I still have my great stills body (EM-1) you can have a great 4k video body...

    Have cake.

    Eat cake.

    Z...
     
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  12. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Actually, I'd say Pana have done the smartest thing they could - saw that Oly already has great stills bodies, but not so much in terms of video, and has filled the hole...

    I still have my great stills body (EM-1) you can have a great 4k video body...

    Have cake.

    Eat cake.

    Z...
     
  13. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    The ironic thing is, aside from shooting with legacy or 43 glass, the GH4 is probably a better stills body, and if you have stabilized Panasonic glass, it is by a significant margin.
     
  14. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran



    I have no Pana glass, and I really like my IBIS. Ergonomics are great too - not quite as good as my old 7D, but still good. I haven't picked up the And had a good fondle yet, so can't comment there. Sensor is a step up, I hear, however. But that's ok, tech progresses, and when I get a new body again, it will have progressed more.

    Z...
     
  15. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Panasonic clearly markets the GH series as hybrid (still and video) cameras, but there is no doubt that they are some of the finest cameras around for stills. If IBIS or 4/3 glass are important to you, you may want to look elsewhere, but there are lots of stills photographers who will find other aspects of the GH4 (superior low light AF, probably superior AF period at least with Pana lenses, fully articulated rear display, etc) to be compelling reasons to pick this camera.

    Some seem to this that the fact that the GH series is superior for video somehow makes them less well suited for stills. Certainly not the case!
     
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  16. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    I'll admit - a fully articulating screen sure would have been nice when I was lying on my stomach 4 feet from a semi submerged alligator, trying to get "the" shot in portrait view...


    Z...
     
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  17. fortwodriver

    fortwodriver Mu-43 Top Veteran

    993
    Nov 15, 2013
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Frank
    All I said was that having a camera that can produce dimensionally 4k video, doesn't mean it's really outputting real resolution inside that box. It isn't. The codec just isn't strong enough.

    Look at all the early DSLRs that advertised 1080p... Very few of the earlier ones actually created 1080p footage that took advantage of that high resolution. Most of the time you had blotchiness, tearing, mpeg style artifacts and poor colour depth that you can get away with more at 720p... The same is with these first generation "pro-sumer" 4k cameras. While they readily fill the 4k "window" with a moving picture, that moving picture still has a way to go in terms of clarity to show off the format. Maybe the next generation of large-sensor cams will be able to make a better go of it.

    ...and no I wasn't basing anything on my E-M1...
     
  18. Livnius

    Livnius Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Melbourne. Australia
    Joe
    :eek:  ...get the shot I say and to hell with self preservation !
     
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  19. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    Most of the reviews I have read (EOSHD, Camera Store, etc. etc.) give the codec very high marks for 4k video. In fact, they say its better than ANY other hybrid camera or DSLR (The 5D3 might have better DoF, but not a better codec). Of course, ones opinion of the codec depends on your standards and expectations. It sounds like you are using it in professional environments along with high end professional cameras. Like I said earlier, if Panasonic's flagship hybrid camera is in the same conversation as high end video cameras costing 10X more, then that speaks highly of the GH4. More artifacts than your RED epic, or EOS C500, or whatever pro camera you shoot is still very high praise for a $1700 hybrid camera that also gives the best stills performance in m43.
     
  20. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    For those wanting to get into video with the GH4, here's a link to a site that will provide information on a few accessories that you might like to purchase along with your camera: http://cheesycam.com/.
     
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