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Paypal is keeping me from my EPL1

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by twalker294, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. twalker294

    twalker294 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 18, 2010
    OK, so a bit of a rant here.

    I put both my Canon G9 and SX20 on Ebay in order to partially fund my EPL1 kit and 20/1.7. The rest of the money is coming from a bonus I am getting from work next Friday. So my plan was to sell the Canons, then use that money to buy the EPL1 and 14-42. Then once my bonus comes, order the 20/1.7 and maybe the EVF.

    So both of my auctions ended this afternoon and I was VERY happy with what I got for the two cameras. One of my buyers paid for her purchase this evening and I got the email notification from Paypal.

    Now, I've not used Ebay for anything, be it buying or selling, in quite a while -- well over a year. But apparently now if your transaction fits certain criteria such as an inactive seller (which I am,) high risk category such as consumer electronics (yep that one fits too,) or a few other things, Paypal will hold your money for 21 days OR until 3 days after delivery of the item, OR until the seller gives you positive feedback on Ebay.

    Now if I am a buyer, this is great. I get to make sure everything is on the up and up and the seller doesn't get his money until I have had a chance to verify that all is well. If I file a complaint, the seller doesn't get paid until it is resolved.

    However if I am a seller, this completely sucks. I have now sold two cameras for a total of $634 and Paypal isn't letting me have MY MONEY. I am also now in a position where I have to ship merchandise that I've not received the money for yet. Well Paypal has it you might say. I've got news for you -- I trust a stranger on the internet a heck of a lot more than I trust Paypal that's for sure.

    So, let's say I ship the cameras tomorrow (which is my plan,) and they are received by the buyers on Monday. In order for Paypal to verify delivery I have to enter the tracking numbers on Ebay. They will then wait an additional 3 days before releasing my money just to make sure the seller doesn't have any complaints. So, best case scenario, I will have access to MY MONEY next Thursday or Friday.

    I guess the silver lining is that I'll be able to order the camera and the 20/1.7 at the same time and save on the extra shipping cost.

    I think this will be my last Ebay deal. Paypal/Ebay has just gotten too heavy handed and monopolistic with their rules.

    Anyway, end of rant. I just wanted to share my tale of woe :frown:
    • Like Like x 1
  2. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Emeritus

    twalker, I don't blame you for being upset. I've never sold anything on eBay so don't really know the ropes. Although I have used Paypal a fair amount, so far so good for me.

    Does it help if you are a "verified" account holder at Paypal? I'm guessing you've contacted Paypal directly.

    Perhaps some other more eBay/Paypal savvy members can offer some pointers?
  3. twalker294

    twalker294 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 18, 2010
    Unfortunately being a verified member doesn't seem to make a difference since I have been for many years. My Ebay record goes back probably 10 years and I've never had one negative feedback as either a buyer or seller, but I've never been very active on Ebay -- just a purchase or sale every once in a blue moon. I guess all I can do is wait and find an alternate method of selling cameras from this point forward.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. pxpaulx

    pxpaulx Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 19, 2010
    Wow, I didn't know they were upto that sort of strict rule. I am fairly active so have never had something like that happen. Do you have a premiere account, or just a regular one? I upgraded long ago, simply because I think that out of my first handful of items almost all wanted to pay via credit card (which I do myself), so having the premiere account allows you to accept that for payment. I don't know if that would have helped anyway, but its a viable option too.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Its unfortunately for you, but I prefer it that way. As you said, it is good for a buyer. Can't have it both ways.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 16, 2010
    That is incorrect. It is good for PayPal! This has nothing to do with protecting buyers, if they wanted to do that then there are much better ways of doing it. For starters, they would be much more proactive about removing obviously fraudulent listings, which they don't do (even when it's pointed out to them), etc, etc. (Remember - PayPal and eBay are the same company).

    If you think that PayPal are there for your protection as a buyer, you obviously haven't been there long enough!
    • Like Like x 1
  7. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Emeritus

    I know many who really dislike Paypal, too. Rudi, I'd be interested in hearing what you feel are the much better ways of selling and buying via the Internet from people or companies you don't know.
  8. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 16, 2010
    The only reason PayPal are doing this is because it means that they don't have to do anything else. And they get to collect the interest on your money in the meantime! In other words, they put the onus on YOU, even though they applaud themselves on their "protection" when you purchase goods through eBay (and ONLY through eBay, most people aren't aware of that fact). So they charge all their fees, including their rip-off foreign exchange fees, and for what? For putting the ball back in your court! For limiting their exposure without having to do anything in return. Not good enough!

    And it's a double-whammy! By not policing the fraudulent auctions, they get to collect fees for all the fraudulent listings on top of all the fees for Paypal transactions, for supposedly protecting you from fraud. Yet this is the best plan they can come up with? Hold on to your money for three weeks? How about doing something about a fraudulent listing when it's reported? So often nothing gets done about that, so why not improve the response time there? Why not require an escrow transaction for those transactions deemed "unsafe"? And who gets to decide what transactions are deemed "unsafe" anyway? (BTW, anyone can go through escrow if they so wish, so they can protect themselves already).

    Sorry, but much like pretty much everything to do with eBay and Paypal these days, this stinks to high heaven...
  9. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Emeritus

    Rudi, can you share with us your way of dealing with buying and selling?

    I agree that it the original poster's situation seems terrible.
  10. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 16, 2010
    I think you have to use lots of common sense on eBay. I remember when it first started, I bought and sold a lot of photo gear on there, and in those days you could send the gear before the other party even let you know that they paid (it was that safe!). It's not like that anymore, so common sense has to prevail - if you feel at all uneasy about the seller, don't send any money, even if it is one of those "grail" purchases. Just don't do it! Listen to your inner voice.

    Escrow is another way that you can protect yourself, or just buy locally, so you can see the goods before you hand over the cash. Of course, you can't do that all the time, so you might have to take a calculated risk once in a while, but do everything in your power to reduce it.

    I try to avoid eBay as much as I can these days, because it has become a hotbed of scam artists. And this is not a sign of the times, it's a sign of eBay and Paypal doing almost nothing to improve the situation! And while they get their money, they won't lift a finger, so the only way to make them listen is to vote with your dollar - go elsewhere!

    If I sound jaded, I am. I have had more than one disappointing experience with eBay and Paypal, and I am not an exception. If it hasn't happened to you yet, it will, and their famous "protection" will be worthless. In my case, the worst experience was when a buyer claimed they did not receive a refund even though they did, so I ended up paying the refund twice, with no comeback available to me. Yet another case of a scammer getting away with it, and eBay and Paypal let them. (The worst part was that I had a bad feeling about that buyer, and did not listen to my intuition. I should have!).
  11. ccmsosse

    ccmsosse Guest

    I will never use EBay of PayPal again - Credit Card and BHPhotoVideoCom is the way to go ....
    20 years in the States and I never had an issue until I used PayPal. I was a new PayPal customer and within month I had my identity stolen and a new PayPal Credit card which I never requested - I am still fighting it.
    I'll never use PayPal again - they were unhelpful and "had nothing to do with it" - they blamed the local waiters who might have stolen my card number for dinner bills etc - total PayPal B.S.

  12. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    Ebay and Paypal look at their users as the military does...
    Collateral Damage. The percentage of users that have problems are lower in numbers than those that don't have problems...
    Their bean counters just shrug it off.... I use both but very carefully. As stated above, it's not what it used to be.
    I bought and sold many guitars. One guy in Canada bought a $4000.00 guitar and said he never received it. I fought for 2 years and never got the money or the guitar back.
    Then after 2 years, he listed it on the bay and I reported it to Ebay and Paypal. You could see the serial # on the headstock. I also have a very close friend in the FBI and he resolved the situation.
    Be careful out there....it's not always a pretty world....
    Paypal or Ebay took no action whatsoever to help me out....
    • Like Like x 2
  13. twalker294

    twalker294 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 18, 2010
    I guess sometimes things really do work out for the best. I just checked B&H and they have lowered their price for the E-PL1 to $499 with the kit lens. That's $50 less than it was yesterday after the $50 instant rebate ($599-50=$549.) I got my positive feedback from one buyer this morning and the other camera will be delivered today and I will hopefully get feedback from that buyer today as well. Looks like I'll have my camera by around Wednesday hopefully. And at a lower price than if I had ordered it earlier...
    • Like Like x 2
  14. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Emeritus

    :yahoo: Great news! First thing you do when you get it is charge that battery!:biggrin: Glad to read some good news!
  15. Boyzo

    Boyzo Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Mar 3, 2010
    Not had a problem with Ebay / PayPal from both the delivery by merchants and the security of PayPal.

    Both my Oly pens and quite a few u43 lenses came via Ebay Sellers
    From USA / Hong Kong / Japan.

    All my filters and camera accessories came via Ebay and never have failed

    One filter and camera strap was not delivered but the merchant was happy to resend.

    The 45/2.8 PL macro (when new and very scarce) went astray from a USA source and he quickly sent a replacement without question.

    The Japanese Ebay seller is very fast and reliable.

    I awaiting a 2nd IP security camera from Ebay the 1st is up and running scanning the front of the property.

    Good merchants out there.
  16. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim New to Mu-43

    I had some good experiences with Ebay, some poor but solved. But Paypal is for me a great font of frustration, because it does not serve Paraguay, my country of residence, and I have lost many opportunities to close deals for equipment, even here in the forum. I don`t understand why most people refuse other payment methods as western union or moneygram. That equates to instant cash, except for the eventual inconvenience of going to an agent. For me as a buyer takes some faith in the seller, but I'd rather trust than lose opportunities.
  17. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yes, there are. The problem with eBay and PayPal is what happens when something goes wrong. Then you're on your own. :frown:
  18. G1 User

    G1 User Mu-43 Veteran

    Jul 20, 2010
    I only buy small accessories on eBay, Film, Batteries, stuff like that, and rarely I may buy a odd ball item that is hard to find..
    I don't sell on ebay, unless I'm OK with getting a lower sale price... I can get a more current price though photography forum classifieds.

    I always require PayPal for payment, On eBay or Forum Classifieds.

    That keeps my accounts active enough to avoid "non-activity" flags.
  19. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Been selling and buying via Ebay (only accepting Paypal) for over 10 years. I also do not do business outside of the US.. its a royal pita to chase down someone for lack of payment outside of the country of the originating sale. In the case of the OP, it does offer some protection.... by making sure the buyer's action confirms a valid transaction before money is released. Just because you have had bad experiences doesn't mean that the process is wrong just because you say it is.

    As always, anything but 1 on 1 sale has a risk associated. I will always tell people to stay away if you are not willing or able to assume risk. If you proceed otherwise, its your own fault and no one else... not ebay.. not paypal.. YOU. Take ownership of your own actions. The other alternative is to always deal in person but then don't complain about the lack of market nor options.

    You do realize, that tracking down the "obviously fraudulent" does require resources? If so... are we as a ebay users willing to take on such cost? don't think so...

    Again.. not willing to take personal risk responsibility... stick to a retail chain.
  20. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 16, 2010
    Nope, not just me. Do a little search and see just how much "protection" Paypal provide. It's a real eye-opener, and most people do not know this until after they're bitten.

    Not tracking down! Just removing obviously fraudulent listings in a timely manner, after they are alerted by eBay users (they don't even have to look for them in this case), and maybe disabling that user's account, that would go a long way towards stamping out much of the problem. I assumed that Paypal's outrageous fees went towards not just pure profit for them (without having to lift a finger), but that some of the funds went towards this famous "protection" they keep selling us...
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