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Panasonic will not quit m4/3

Discussion in 'Micro 4/3 News and Rumors' started by panamike, Oct 6, 2018.

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  1. panamike

    panamike Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jul 5, 2016
    Lincolnshire UK
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    903
    Jul 23, 2010
    No they would be mad to, they seem to sell a lot of their m43, I seem to see more Panys than Fujis when I am out and about. I would be upset if they did, they have produced most of my favorite cameras of recent years, so selfishly I want them to carry on doing just that.
     
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  3. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    The only thing that bugs me about Panasonic going Leica L mount is that there's not much incentive for a current M43 shooter to stay with Panasonic if wanting to add a FF camera. Nikon and Canon can leverage their DSLR lenses and Sony surprisingly has the most mobility with the E mount being both for APS-C and FF. I hope Panasonic encourages some sort of cross compatibility maybe in the area of batteries, flashes, etc.
     
  4. CWRailman

    CWRailman Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jun 2, 2015
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Denny
    While I understand some of the sentiments posted about this, there are realities of marketing and maintaining market share in a diminishing market to consider. Several camera stores in my local including the largest have never carried Panasonic 4/3 products. Both do carry Olympus. The same can be said of the big box stores in my area such as Best Buy. However the camera stores, I don't know about the big box stores, have indicated that if Panasonic comes out with the Full Frame camera, even though they know it will be biased towards video and be in direct competition with other full frame cameras, they will carry that. So maybe that will get Panasonic into markets that are more lucrative than where they have been up to this point. However, I would not get my hopes up on too much additional product development from their 4/3 group. Remember that Fuji said just a few years ago that they did not think video was important and see what they have done recently.

    We had a saying in my former life that if a companies' representatives lips were moving they were lying. Their perspective on the drivel they were dolling out was that they were telling a version of the truth that they felt would best serve their companies goals "at that time" until the company changed it's goals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  5. Mike G

    Mike G Mu-43 Regular

    144
    Aug 13, 2018
    London
    Mike Gorman
    I sense an attitude in this and other forums that anyone using M4/3, APSC or other smaller sensor systems is gagging to buy a FF camera! Not necessarily so people!
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
  6. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I think it's always been a bit of a myth that there is really any sort of mobility path between APS-C and FF.

    The only exception to this is if you are specifically using an APS-C camera because you want more reach, and your 70-200mm, 300mm prime, or 100-400mm will usefully serve you double duty in both APS-C and FF capacities.

    For everything else? Either you're stuck with a ton of big, expensive ultrawide zooms and wide-angle primes that waste their image circle and have lower resolving power (yay, a $2200 16-35/f2.8 or $1800 14mm/f2.8, a $1500 24/1.4 and $1600 35/1.4 to cover the "moderate" basics!) or you're investing specifically in APS-C kit (like a 16-50mm/f2.8 standard zoom, or a comparatively light and compact 16mm, 24mm, 35mm designed for a smaller image circle).

    People love the idea that they get an affordable body now and just slowly accumulate the good FF lenses and upgrade their body later on, but it just means that they spend a lot more money, carry a lot more weight, and get lacklustre results compared to either investing in good crop lenses or an FF body and affordable moderate speed lenses with the right focal lengths to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  7. Jay_M

    Jay_M Mu-43 Regular

    142
    Jul 30, 2018
    AZ
    The mindset of MFT being doomed never made sense to me. APS-C has issues with the cameras generally lacking features and nice glass, with a mindset of moving up to FF as an acceptable excuse. MFT already has a huge glass collection, and Panny just announced that pretty cool zoom, so it's not like the system will ever hurt for lens options. As long as Panny doesnt start sandbagging MFT camera features in the future there's not much to worry about from them. IF they were to do that, they would basically give up the MFT body market to Oly, so that doesnt seem likely either IMO.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. dalto

    dalto Mu-43 Veteran

    293
    Jul 6, 2016
    Texas
    That is interesting, in my area for ILC cameras, BB only carries Canon, Nikon and Sony. The Sony is usually off in a smaller display by itself.

    Really, the only way to see cameras here is to go to a camera store. Luckily there is exactly one that carries a wide variety of cameras. Pretty much everything except for Pentax who I only knew was still in business because of this forum. :hide:
     
  9. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    903
    Jul 23, 2010
    Most of the Camera stores I have been in in the UK have had Panasonic's on display, I am not sure but has m43 generally sold better outside of North America?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. SLOtographer

    SLOtographer Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    114
    Sep 1, 2013
    California
    Stan
    One issue I see is that people are conflating their rationale against M43 with Panasonic’s choice to continue the format. An argument that comes up by individuals is that you can get more IQ via FF for similar cost. But Panasonic makes M43 to make a profit and their decision will come down to whether their cameras and lenses turn a profit.

    Also I assume there is large overlap between development costs for FF and M43. So if they develop tech for the S series, the extra cost to apply that tech to M43 (and vice versa) might be minimal to get out M43 bodies. Plus the lens system has already been developed.
     
  11. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    903
    Jul 23, 2010
    You could have argued when the relatively expensive Leica's first came out that MF or LF can be had for similar costs for greater IQ. It misses out the big argument for m43 or 35mm then and that is good enough IQ but far far more portability, OK some of the bodies are big but I can't see them making great but very small lenses that compare and there is always a GX9 or EM5/10 for small size.
     
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  12. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    I'm more concerned about compatibility. Of course you're going to buy a different set of lenses switching formats, but what's to keep a Panasonic M43 shooter loyal to Panasonic? Consumers have other options like Sony, Nikon and Canon. I don't know if video is a compelling enough reason.

    Also M43 isn't going anywhere, it's already been adopted in other industrial applications where size is a concern. 1" sensors seem better suited for fixed lens cameras while M43 is the smallest ILC with decent quality. APS-C has all the bulk of FF, while only have a slight image quality advantage over M43.
     
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  13. dalto

    dalto Mu-43 Veteran

    293
    Jul 6, 2016
    Texas
    The same thing that keeps Canon shooters loyal to Canon and Nikon shooters loyal to Nikon. Not much, now that they have new lens mounts.

    Ultimately, their viability will be based on the quality of their products and marketing efforts as well as the success of the other l-mount players.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    Not the same. You can use your Canon EF lenses, flashes and batteries. Same goes with Nikon.
     
  15. I personally think they've put themselves in a slightly awkward starting point just like with Nikon's F mount... the L mount has a really deep flange compared to the other FF mirrorless mounts... in an interview Sigma was hoping to do FF mirrorless with a shorter flange but the alliance made more sense commercially.
     
  16. I'm not at all sure what you're trying to say here? Manufacturers such as Canon have no need to produce APS-C specific "nice glass" as the glass produced for FF is nice enough and fits APS-C. I carried the 7dmkll specifically for the extra reach when birding with my 100-400 mkll but also invariably carried the 6d body if I knew that I was going to also step into the rainforest where it's clean high iso and superb ability to focus fast in low light would benefit me. There really is no need to produce aps-c specific glass, in fact, it's detrimental because it cannot be used if upgrading to a full frame body. I made a point when buying glass, right back to when I had the 40D not to buy ef-s glass because I knew that at some juncture I would go FF and wanted to take my glass with me.
     
  17. dalto

    dalto Mu-43 Veteran

    293
    Jul 6, 2016
    Texas
    The problem with using FF glass for APS-c is that it sucks on the wide end where you end up using a UW zoom to get normal zoom range. Perhaps more importantly, you are effectively using a lens that is bigger and heavier than it needs to be. When I was shooting Canon, other than telephoto I always thought the APS-c lineup was somewhat pointless if budget wasn't an issue. Most of the ef-s lenses were either slow or of relatively low quality. On the other hand, Fuji, which has a dedicated APS-c lineup makes a lot more sense to me because their glass is made for APS-C and sized appropriately.

    When I was a Canon shooter I was always questing for the best glass. I remember lugging around the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II because it was optically amazing. These days, when I make a lens purchasing decision size/weight are one of my key decision points.
     
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  18. DanS

    DanS Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 8, 2016
    Central IL
    From what i have read, a large chunk of the R&D costs are software/processing related, and thus is almost universal.
     
    • Like Like x 1
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  19. Same here and the reason I switched to m43 was because I had a problem with my canon gear due to bursitis. I was finding it impossible on one of my bad days to even lift the 100-400 combo. That said, I just couldn't part with the lens as I considered it to be the best glass that I had ever had so I lashed out on a metabones thinking that I had reduced my weight burden enough to be able to use the 100-400 with my m43 body. I was wrong and only had one outing with it (image below) and had to part with it anyway as the weight was still too much The upside is that I got 2 more bodies and 4 more lenses with the sale of that one lens. Still wish that I could have kept it though :-(

    40642944252_ca0d0f4bae_o.
    E-M10MarkII    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM    374mm    f/7.3    1/640s    ISO 800
    Australian Darter - Snakebird (2)
    by Kevin Dickinson, on Flickr
     
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  20. ToxicTabasco

    ToxicTabasco Mu-43 Top Veteran

    518
    Jul 2, 2018
    South West USA
    So if the 30% of the market is either FF or MF, they still need the MFT as an option to upgrade to a smaller lighter kit. And video is still a huge part of the Panasonic market. And, I highly doubt video will ever decline or be obsolete in my lifetime.
     
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