Panasonic vs. Olympus

ex machina

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Funny thing is that I am really not that impressed with low light performance of either Canon or Nikon. In addition to my GX85, I also have a Canon 6dmk2 and Nikon D750 with equal lenses in both systems (long story, mostly about stupidity on my part). Their low light performance is not all that stellar. The Canon 6dmk2 low light images are almost identical to what I used to get with my 7dmk2 with its smaller APS-C sensor. Same with my D750 compared to my older Nikon D200 (slightly better high ISO performance).

I have seen some outstanding images shot by folks using m4/3 bodies in low light. Either they were lucky to get a super awesome body with a freakishly great sensor, or they are masters of Photoshop. Some of the low light images I have seen are way better than what I dream my full frame Canon or Nikon could capture!
I think we can agree that DR is greater on all FF cameras, but for lower light the Sony's seem to be standouts. I often shoot dark sites on a tripod whereas my FF friends stick with handheld freedom. Now, I don't really mind so much since my tripod allows for larger DOF than do the FF handhelders, who need to shoot more wide-open, but still, it would be nice to not always have to use a tripod. I also compensate for my lower DR by sometimes applying a light HDR technique, but, again, it would be nice not to have to do that.
 
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davidzvi

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.....I mostly shoot stills (actually more like 99.999% of the time). I like the feel and form of "rangefinder-type" bodies and eye level viewfinders on the back of a camera instead of just a large lcd screen. .......
Olympus / Rangefinder / Viewfinder ? The only option is the Pen F. I think (having owned a GX85 and now have the Pen F) that the sensor in the Pen F is a little better. But I'm not sure it's enough of a reason on it's own to switch.
.....Same with my D750 compared to my older Nikon D200 (slightly better high ISO performance).....
Having owned owned both of these and several others in between, I have to disagree with these findings.
 

PakkyT

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As far as jpeg output, I have had almost no luck with producing images that didn't look blotchy, required color enhancement in Photoshop or lacked sharp details. That's why I shoot mainly RAW.

Funny thing is that I am really not that impressed with low light performance of either Canon or Nikon. In addition to my GX85, I also have a Canon 6dmk2 and Nikon D750 with equal lenses in both systems (long story, mostly about stupidity on my part). Their low light performance is not all that stellar.

I have seen some outstanding images shot by folks using m4/3 bodies in low light. Either they were lucky to get a super awesome body with a freakishly great sensor, or they are masters of Photoshop. Some of the low light images I have seen are way better than what I dream my full frame Canon or Nikon could capture!

Not intending to be mean or rude, but I have to wonder if perhaps the issue isn't your equipment but instead your technique?

Meaning things like you are picking wrong settings for how you are shooting, you are focusing on the wrong part of your scene or letting the camera pick the AF points used, you shoot in a hurry and/or don't ensure you have proper focus and at the right point, you don't pay attention to the exposure letting the camera pick it resulting in you often having to "correct" it in post, your lenses are low end and this can give the sharpness of the example shots you have seen shot with better optics, your lenses are high end lenses like the Oly f1.2 lenses which you always use wide open shooting hand held and don't realize you sway back and forth a fair bit more than other people, etc.
 

snegron

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Not intending to be mean or rude, but I have to wonder if perhaps the issue isn't your equipment but instead your technique?

Meaning things like you are picking wrong settings for how you are shooting, you are focusing on the wrong part of your scene or letting the camera pick the AF points used, you shoot in a hurry and/or don't ensure you have proper focus and at the right point, you don't pay attention to the exposure letting the camera pick it resulting in you often having to "correct" it in post, your lenses are low end and this can give the sharpness of the example shots you have seen shot with better optics, your lenses are high end lenses like the Oly f1.2 lenses which you always use wide open shooting hand held and don't realize you sway back and forth a fair bit more than other people, etc.

No offense taken!

I used to get great results with my old D200. I also got great results with my 7dmk2. Both of those cameras had APS-C sensors. When I went to full frame with a 6dmk2 and a D750, I was expecting a major improvement, kind of like the old film days when I went from 35mm film to 120mm medium format film; very noticeable difference and improvement in every aspect of IQ.

As for lenses, the ones I have might not be the best, but they are not low quality glass either.

In Canon I have the following lenses:

- Canon 17-55 mm f2.8 EF-S (for my 7dmk2)
- Canon EF 16-35mm f4.0L
- Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L (non IS version)
- Canon EF 28mm f1.8 USM
- Canon EF 35mm f2.0 IS
- Canon 50mm f1.8 STM
- Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM


For Nikon I have the following lenses:

- Nikon 17-55mm f2.8 DX (for my D200)
- Nikon 16-35mm f4.0 G ED VR
- Nikon 80-200mm f2.8 AF-D
- Nikon 24mm f2.8 AF-D
- Nikon 35mm f2.0 AF-D
- Nikon 50mm f1.8 AF-D
- Nikon 85mm f1.8 AF-D
- Nikon 180mm f2.8 AF-ED
- Nikon 300mm f4 AF-S
- Nikon manual focus AiS lenses including the 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 105mm versions

For my m4/3 cameras I have the following lenses:

- Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 v2
- Panasonic 12-32mm f3.5/5.6
- Panasonic 45-150mm f4.0/5.6
- Panasonic 14mm f2.5
- Olympus 30mm f3.5 Macro
- I also have adapters to fit my Nikon lenses onto my m4/3 body.

As for cameras, I still have the following:

APS-C Format:
- Nikon D1X (two bodies)
- Nikon D200 (5 bodies)
- Canon 7dmk2
- Canon T3i
- Canon T6

In full frame I have the following:

- Canon 6dmk2
- Nikon D750

In m4/3 I have the following:
- Panasonic GX85
- Panasonic G5

I also have a few more miscellaneous cameras (Lumix LX3, waterproof point and shoots, a ton of film cameras, etc.)
I have no complaints of any of the above cameras or lenses as I learned to work around their limitations. I never expected an m4/3 to have equal IQ as a FF, etc. As for my comment about the lack of a major improvement between my D200's and my D750, I still stand by it. Before FF was as commonly available as it is today, I shot a ton of weddings and sporting events with my D200's. Never had any issues with dynamic range; noise was dealt with mostly in Photoshop, but I knew how far to push those D200's to their limits.

I ended up purchasing the 6dmk2 and D750 roughly around the same time (a few months apart). I took them both out on shooting experiments using equal lenses and found that the D750 produced better images under most circumstances. I was a bit disappointed because the difference in IQ wasn't that much better than my old D200's. My results weren't bad overall, it's just that I was expecting a major difference like when I went from 35mm to 120mm film.
 

davidzvi

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Quite the collection, I've tried very hard over the years too sell off my older gear over the years. I don't think I've actually had more than 5 bodies at any one time.

5 D200s? I had one D200 with a Fuji S5Pro, then sold the D200 for a D300. I rented a D700 for one event, a wedding in October at King's Chapel in Boston, no flash allowed. The different made me sell the D300 and S5 Pro to get the pair of D700's.
 

snegron

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Quite the collection, I've tried very hard over the years too sell off my older gear over the years. I don't think I've actually had more than 5 bodies at any one time.

5 D200s? I had one D200 with a Fuji S5Pro, then sold the D200 for a D300. I rented a D700 for one event, a wedding in October at King's Chapel in Boston, no flash allowed. The different made me sell the D300 and S5 Pro to get the pair of D700's.


I actually have tried to sell off some of the stuff over the years but haven't had much luck. Last thing I tried selling was my 6dmk2 3 months after buying it new. The highest offer I got was for a little less than half of what I paid for it brand new only 3 months prior! It was almost like I was paying someone to take my equipment! So, I ended up keeping it.

Now that both Canon and Nikon introduced their new replacement series (R and Z), all my old equipment is worth even less.
 

snegron

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If I could get this in digital form, I would be happy!
 

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RichardC

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I actually have tried to sell off some of the stuff over the years but haven't had much luck. Last thing I tried selling was my 6dmk2 3 months after buying it new. The highest offer I got was for a little less than half of what I paid for it brand new only 3 months prior! It was almost like I was paying someone to take my equipment! So, I ended up keeping it.

Now that both Canon and Nikon introduced their new replacement series (R and Z), all my old equipment is worth even less.

Ebay, fixed price listings, no offers.

If the equipment is in good condition and the price realistic (check ebay completed listings, sold prices, noting condition and shipping), it will sell.

Nothing is worth any more or any less than what someone is willing to pay for it.
 

Darmok N Jalad

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Ebay, fixed price listings, no offers.

If the equipment is in good condition and the price realistic (check ebay completed listings, sold prices, noting condition and shipping), it will sell.

Nothing is worth any more or any less than what someone is willing to pay for it.
Not to get too OT, but I preferred pricing things on eBay at something above what I want, and allow offers with auto-decline. That way I could vet the buyer better than a straight sale. I've had deadbeats "buy" my item, only to never pay, and it takes several days and eBay intervention to get the item relisted. I'm pretty sure they did it to keep someone else from buying my item so they could sell their own competing item in their own storefront. I have pretty much given up on eBay because it's just a buyer-protected mess half the time.
 

RichardC

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Not to get too OT, but I preferred pricing things on eBay at something above what I want, and allow offers with auto-decline. That way I could vet the buyer better than a straight sale. I've had deadbeats "buy" my item, only to never pay, and it takes several days and eBay intervention to get the item relisted. I'm pretty sure they did it to keep someone else from buying my item so they could sell their own competing item in their own storefront. I have pretty much given up on eBay because it's just a buyer-protected mess half the time.
That's another useful approach. I find auctions too risky unless I've got a really hot item - in which case I'll start bidding at a penny to get as much interest as possible.
 

snegron

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Not to get too OT, but I preferred pricing things on eBay at something above what I want, and allow offers with auto-decline. That way I could vet the buyer better than a straight sale. I've had deadbeats "buy" my item, only to never pay, and it takes several days and eBay intervention to get the item relisted. I'm pretty sure they did it to keep someone else from buying my item so they could sell their own competing item in their own storefront. I have pretty much given up on eBay because it's just a buyer-protected mess half the time.

I tried selling one of my cameras via ebay/PayPal; all I got were people trying to scam me! I tried listing on Facebook Marketplace, but that's where I got thw super lowball offers. I even wrote in the description "Firm price, no trades", but there were plenty folks who contacted me to trade. I really don't need more equipment!
 

Darmok N Jalad

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I tried selling one of my cameras via ebay/PayPal; all I got were people trying to scam me! I tried listing on Facebook Marketplace, but that's where I got thw super lowball offers. I even wrote in the description "Firm price, no trades", but there were plenty folks who contacted me to trade. I really don't need more equipment!
Yeah, I often am willing to accept the low-hassle approach of selling to camera shops, even if it means less money. I don’t pay fees, I don’t pay shipping, and it only costs me the time to pack it up. No haggling, no “oh, I changed my mind,” That’s worth something too, right?
 

John King

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No offense taken!

I used to get great results with my old D200. I also got great results with my 7dmk2. Both of those cameras had APS-C sensors. When I went to full frame with a 6dmk2 and a D750, I was expecting a major improvement, kind of like the old film days when I went from 35mm film to 120mm medium format film; very noticeable difference and improvement in every aspect of IQ.

As for lenses, the ones I have might not be the best, but they are not low quality glass either.

In Canon I have the following lenses:

- Canon 17-55 mm f2.8 EF-S (for my 7dmk2)
- Canon EF 16-35mm f4.0L
- Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L (non IS version)
- Canon EF 28mm f1.8 USM
- Canon EF 35mm f2.0 IS
- Canon 50mm f1.8 STM
- Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM


For Nikon I have the following lenses:

- Nikon 17-55mm f2.8 DX (for my D200)
- Nikon 16-35mm f4.0 G ED VR
- Nikon 80-200mm f2.8 AF-D
- Nikon 24mm f2.8 AF-D
- Nikon 35mm f2.0 AF-D
- Nikon 50mm f1.8 AF-D
- Nikon 85mm f1.8 AF-D
- Nikon 180mm f2.8 AF-ED
- Nikon 300mm f4 AF-S
- Nikon manual focus AiS lenses including the 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 105mm versions

For my m4/3 cameras I have the following lenses:

- Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 v2
- Panasonic 12-32mm f3.5/5.6
- Panasonic 45-150mm f4.0/5.6
- Panasonic 14mm f2.5
- Olympus 30mm f3.5 Macro
- I also have adapters to fit my Nikon lenses onto my m4/3 body.

As for cameras, I still have the following:

APS-C Format:
- Nikon D1X (two bodies)
- Nikon D200 (5 bodies)
- Canon 7dmk2
- Canon T3i
- Canon T6

In full frame I have the following:

- Canon 6dmk2
- Nikon D750

In m4/3 I have the following:
- Panasonic GX85
- Panasonic G5

I also have a few more miscellaneous cameras (Lumix LX3, waterproof point and shoots, a ton of film cameras, etc.)
I have no complaints of any of the above cameras or lenses as I learned to work around their limitations. I never expected an m4/3 to have equal IQ as a FF, etc. As for my comment about the lack of a major improvement between my D200's and my D750, I still stand by it. Before FF was as commonly available as it is today, I shot a ton of weddings and sporting events with my D200's. Never had any issues with dynamic range; noise was dealt with mostly in Photoshop, but I knew how far to push those D200's to their limits.

I ended up purchasing the 6dmk2 and D750 roughly around the same time (a few months apart). I took them both out on shooting experiments using equal lenses and found that the D750 produced better images under most circumstances. I was a bit disappointed because the difference in IQ wasn't that much better than my old D200's. My results weren't bad overall, it's just that I was expecting a major difference like when I went from 35mm to 120mm film.
Put all but one kit away in storage (nice dry, warmish cupboard).

With your chosen kit, learn how to use it under all circumstances such that you can reliably get usable results, no matter what. Don't touch your other gear for about 6 months.

I suspect that you have tied yourself up in a knot, and never quite know how to get decent results, because you are applying techniques from some other kit to the one you are using.

I hope this makes sense! I've just woken up, and the potent painkillers I take for my back and other painful bits haven't really kicked in yet ...
 

snegron

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Yeah, I often am willing to accept the low-hassle approach of selling to camera shops, even if it means less money. I don’t pay fees, I don’t pay shipping, and it only costs me the time to pack it up. No haggling, no “oh, I changed my mind,” That’s worth something too, right?

Same here! Years ago I sold a Nikon D70s to KEH. I used the money/credit toward buying a new 300mm f4 AF-S with them.
 

snegron

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Put all but one kit away in storage (nice dry, warmish cupboard).

With your chosen kit, learn how to use it under all circumstances such that you can reliably get usable results, no matter what. Don't touch your other gear for about 6 months.

I suspect that you have tied yourself up in a knot, and never quite know how to get decent results, because you are applying techniques from some other kit to the one you are using.

I hope this makes sense! I've just woken up, and the potent painkillers I take for my back and other painful bits haven't really kicked in yet ...

Thanks! You are right regarding mixing different systems up in my brain while trying to shoot. I was actually thinking about just using my GX85 with the 12-35mm f2.8 for the next few weeks as it is the most foreign to me of all my cameras (most functions accessible via touch menu, etc).
 

John King

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Thanks! You are right regarding mixing different systems up in my brain while trying to shoot. I was actually thinking about just using my GX85 with the 12-35mm f2.8 for the next few weeks as it is the most foreign to me of all my cameras (most functions accessible via touch menu, etc).
It may well work. Who knows?

I haven't seen many images from any gear that I could not have taken with at least one of my 'family'.

E-1, E-510, E-30, then mFTs E-PM2 (recent acquisition), E-M1 MkI, E-M1 MkII.

It's not the gear, it's the photographer, knowledge and technique.
 

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