Panasonic too?!?

[BDR-529]

The difference now is that we've basically democratized broadcasting. So we get to see even more stuff that should never have left the device it was filmed with... ;-)

We have democratized broadcasting because everyone in the developed countries is carrying a combined video camcorder and live radio broadcast station on their person.

They are called smartphones and 1,4 billion of those were sold last year. Some 720 000 hours of new content is uploaded on youtube every day and based on the quality of random video you see there, "real" cameras are a curiosity.

Just 8 million (0,008 billion) ILC:s were sold last year and Panasonic made only 0,36million of those so the question here is simply can this business ever be profitable for them? Self-sustaining yes but Panasonic is not a traditional camera company that has to keep making these due to historical reasons as long as they can afford it like Olympus. Every unit must make profit and show clear growth potential or resources are allocated elsewhere.

I believe that camera unit did get a permission to demonstrate what kind of profitability and market share they can gain with a couple of new video-specific models but Panasonic is so huge company that I would not be surprised to learn tomorrow that cameras are indeed on top of "to be divested underperformers"-list.

 

[JonSnih]

Just 8 million (0,008 billion) ILC:s were sold last year and Panasonic made only 0,36million of those so the question here is simply can this business ever be profitable for them? Self-sustaining yes but Panasonic is not a traditional camera company that has to keep making these due to historical reasons as long as they can afford it like Olympus. Every unit must make profit and show clear growth potential or resources are allocated elsewhere.

According to CIPA in 2020 8.9 M digital cameras were shipped/sold, there of 5.3 M were ILCs. There was a 2019 camera sales report published online somewhere (can't find it now) in which was claimed that Panny sold only 220K ILC units in 2019 (m4/3+L-mount), the 2020 was even worse (less than 200K for sure). With these volumes it is impossible to be in profit.

 

[pake]

Nikon will sell out to JIP and answer the FX OMD question. But which one will change the zoom direction of the lenses?

Fortunately everyone knows the Olympus direction is the right direction.

 

[NoSeconds]

If they do shut down their camera business, all existing products will become worthless and cease functioning immediately...

 

[RichardC]

If they do shut down their camera business, all existing products will become worthless and cease functioning immediately...

Worse still, unprocessed RAW images will turn to mush. Better get on with your old holiday snaps.

 

[Henk van Slooten]

 

[fortwodriver]

Panasonic made a huge range of tape-based CCD video cameras from professional to low-end consumer grade. This tied into their broadcast media products, both field and studio. I location scouted using a Panny 3CCD cam.

Their foray into stills camera both P&S and ILC is the exception that’s made them no appreciable market share and likely lost them $$$. The GH series and the GH5 was the attempt to combine the amateur video consumer product with a more professional auteur filmmaker market. G100, too. Profitable like the videocam era? I doubt it. It would not surprise me if they dumped their camera lines.

Yup... In fact, when I was in high school in the early 90s, Panasonic provided the entire school with SVHS cameras as part of a school/industry amalgam. In fact, we had one of the first Panasonic VHS two-piece camera/VTR portables that didn't require you set the white-point every time you started it up. By the time my age-range got ahold of it, the monstrous rechargeable batteries had to be made up from parts, because no replacements existed. Panasonic sent us a battery case to load generic NiCads into for it.

We will have to wait and see. We now have multiple generations of folks who've grown up in the midst of the Lumix brand. It's what the youngest folks decide to take up that will ultimately determine if Panasonic stays in the game. They could always pull out of Europe and America and focus back on Asian markets. Lumix could end up being an Asian-market-only brand at some point.

 

[fortwodriver]

According to CIPA in 2020 8.9 M digital cameras were shipped/sold, there of 5.3 M were ILCs. There was a 2019 camera sales report published online somewhere (can't find it now) in which was claimed that Panny sold only 220K ILC units in 2019 (m4/3+L-mount), the 2020 was even worse (less than 200K for sure). With these volumes it is impossible to be in profit.

When you visit Panasonic's consumer site, it's Cameras, Microwave/Combo ovens, Massage chairs, and Wireless A/V. Which of those is the big product? Probably still cameras, overall.

Panasonic likely has the ability to see a product all the way through until it fades from consumers minds before they feel they have to kill it off. They're that massive.

In a small footnote, there's information about them bringing back the Technics name for audio gear. Looks like a throw-back attempt to me, not some new thing.

 

[Brownie]

Another new lens from Panasonic, this time FF:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explor...umix-s-50mm-f18-lens-to-its-full-frame-lineup

I was beginning to wonder how long it would take for them to come out with an every-man's 50mm. Looks like the cost is about 20% of the 50/1.4 version, yet 3X as much as the equivalent 25/1.7 for M4/3. It does come in at less than the PL 25/1.4 though.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I was beginning to wonder how long it would take for them to come out with an every-man's 50mm. Looks like the cost is about 20% of the 50/1.4 version, yet 3X as much as the equivalent 25/1.7 for M4/3. It does come in at less than the PL 25/1.4 though.

Just the MSRP, I’m sure you’ll see the usual $100 discounts on it in 6 months.

Unrelated, camera prices are all messed up currently as we’re between sale periods. Currently the E-M1iii is cheaper than the mark ii.

 

[John M Flores]

Depending what a hobbyist is photographing that 1" serious compact is likely "good enough". But hobbyists tend to like gear as much as they like using it. I don't get the idea that "content creators" are necessarily gearheads. Maybe I'm wrong about that though. Can't say I know one.

Six years ago I might have agreed with you, but today, every single tech vlogger, bicycle vlogger, motorcycle vlogger, and camera vlogger that I follow is a gearhead with better gear than me. They're working with full-frame Sonys and gimbals with complex lighting setups and fancy microphones. They're shooting in LOG 4k and 8k and color grading.

I started following a towing channel (yes, a towing channel) a couple of years ago when they were just using a phone to shoot their videos. Now, with over 600,000 subscribers, they bring at least two camera operators wielding DJI gimbals (and sometimes a drone) every time they go out. They've got dead cats on their mics and probably somebody back at the office just to edit their videos.

Viewer expectations of quality are rising, and anyone with over 30,000 subscribers on YouTube is thinking a lot about what gear they need to make the leap to 100,000 and taking some of their ad revenue and pouring it back into gear.

 

[WaltP]

Well I heard a rumor that said not to pay too much attention to rumors because they were just rumors - at least they are rumored to be just rumors.

 

[RichardC]

Well I heard a rumor that said not to pay too much attention to rumors because they were just rumors - at least they are rumored to be just rumors.

That's just an idle rumour.

 

[fortwodriver]

Six years ago I might have agreed with you, but today, every single tech vlogger, bicycle vlogger, motorcycle vlogger, and camera vlogger that I follow is a gearhead with better gear than me. They're working with full-frame Sonys and gimbals with complex lighting setups and fancy microphones. They're shooting in LOG 4k and 8k and color grading.

How do you think that happened? They likely watched the previous generation of Youtube hustlers. We are talking about a digital photography phenomenon that basically got started in 1997, here.

That is not the majority of camera owners or new camera buyers. Those folks are the modern equivalent of hustlers. They may be broadcasting on Youtube now, but in a month, a year, whatever, they may be gone from the scene and on to whatever they feel will bring them financial stability or a future.

People who come into tech after you generally will buy tech made after you bought yours.

 

[Brownie]

That's just an idle rumour.

Well, I heard John Lennon is still alive, and that's an idol rumor.

 

[RS86]

Six years ago I might have agreed with you, but today, every single tech vlogger, bicycle vlogger, motorcycle vlogger, and camera vlogger that I follow is a gearhead with better gear than me. They're working with full-frame Sonys and gimbals with complex lighting setups and fancy microphones. They're shooting in LOG 4k and 8k and color grading.

I started following a towing channel (yes, a towing channel) a couple of years ago when they were just using a phone to shoot their videos. Now, with over 600,000 subscribers, they bring at least two camera operators wielding DJI gimbals (and sometimes a drone) every time they go out. They've got dead cats on their mics and probably somebody back at the office just to edit their videos.

Viewer expectations of quality are rising, and anyone with over 30,000 subscribers on YouTube is thinking a lot about what gear they need to make the leap to 100,000 and taking some of their ad revenue and pouring it back into gear.

It's no wonder when you look at this video. Matti Haapoja has over 1 million subscribers now, and in this video tells how much money he makes.

If I remember correctly it's close to 10 000 € per month now, but someone can give the correct numbers if they watch the video.

And in fact he has got those subscribers because he advises how to make good quality video.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Six years ago I might have agreed with you, but today, every single tech vlogger, bicycle vlogger, motorcycle vlogger, and camera vlogger that I follow is a gearhead with better gear than me. They're working with full-frame Sonys and gimbals with complex lighting setups and fancy microphones. They're shooting in LOG 4k and 8k and color grading.

I started following a towing channel (yes, a towing channel) a couple of years ago when they were just using a phone to shoot their videos. Now, with over 600,000 subscribers, they bring at least two camera operators wielding DJI gimbals (and sometimes a drone) every time they go out. They've got dead cats on their mics and probably somebody back at the office just to edit their videos.

Viewer expectations of quality are rising, and anyone with over 30,000 subscribers on YouTube is thinking a lot about what gear they need to make the leap to 100,000 and taking some of their ad revenue and pouring it back into gear.

Yeah, it really has become another world. These vloggers probably aren’t using smartphones for the same reasons as photographers—limited flexibility and ergonomics. I’m sure they make smartphone cages for video, but you might as well go dedicated once you reach this point. It’s no coincidence that Sony’s launched a new smartphone alongside the A1.

 

[John M Flores]

How do you think that happened? They likely watched the previous generation of Youtube hustlers. We are talking about a digital photography phenomenon that basically got started in 1997, here.

That is not the majority of camera owners or new camera buyers. Those folks are the modern equivalent of hustlers. They may be broadcasting on Youtube now, but in a month, a year, whatever, they may be gone from the scene and on to whatever they feel will bring them financial stability or a future.

People who come into tech after you generally will buy tech made after you bought yours.

I know of a YouTube creator that started 10 years ago while he was still in high school. He would do unboxing videos from the bedroom of his parents' house. He's now got a thriving YouTube channel - it's his full-time job and career, and he's got studio space and a production crew, and they have regular publishing schedule for his 14,000,000+ subscribers.

Another YouTuber started with unboxing videos and PC builds recorded in the kitchen of a rented townhouse. The other parts of the townhouse housed the production and editing team. The eventually got their own space in an industrial park and built out multiple shooting sets where they record the wide variety of programs that their channel produces. It's basically a television production company whose delivery mechanism is YouTube. They have 13.5 million subscribers and he's going to put his children through college (and probably the children of the people that work for him) on what he makes on YouTube.

And I know smaller channels that make enough money on YouTube to quit their day jobs and pursue creating videos about something that they love - bicycling, motorcycling, video games, etc...

Wish we could all "hustle" like that.

 

[BDR-529]

Panasonic likely has the ability to see a product all the way through until it fades from consumers minds before they feel they have to kill it off. They're that massive.

In a small footnote, there's information about them bringing back the Technics name for audio gear. Looks like a throw-back attempt to me, not some new thing.

Now that you mentioned resurrected "Technics", there's one thing everyone has apparently missed here even though some of us have been staring straight at it.

Panasonic is not making consumer cameras. LUMIX is. Panasonic is only making professional broadcast and cine cameras.

Just check your camera body. All consumer models are LUMIX cameras, not Panasonic. The only place where Panasonic is mentioned is the fine print in the type label.

Big companies create sub-brands which are easy to divest because they don't engdanger the main brand even if the buyer slaps that name on outright trash and good brand will always have some value even if the business itself becomes an underperformer.

Did someone mention Vaio which Sony dumped to JIP once they got fed up with losses and didn't see any growth potential for that business? Actually JIP never even got the VAIO brand. Sony still owns it. They just leased it for an unknown period so who knows they Sony will do "Technics" with it one day.
https://www.technics.com/us/

 

[Brownie]

Now that you mentioned resurrected "Technics", there's one thing everyone has apparently missed here even though some of us have been staring straight at it.

Panasonic is not making consumer cameras. LUMIX is. Panasonic is only making professional broadcast and cine cameras.

Just check your camera body. All consumer models are LUMIX cameras, not Panasonic. The only place where Panasonic is mentioned is the fine print in the type label.

Big companies create sub-brands which are easy to divest because they don't engdanger the main brand even if the buyer slaps that name on outright trash and good brand will always have some value even if the business itself becomes an underperformer.

Did someone mention Vaio which Sony dumped to JIP once they got fed up with losses and didn't see any growth potential for that business? Actually JIP never even got the VAIO brand. Sony still owns it. They just leased it for an unknown period so who knows they Sony will do "Technics" with it one day.
https://www.technics.com/us/

See the end of the box. It's also the largest type on the camera's model tag on the bottom. You can't separate the two, not after 20 years.

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)