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Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 now $1,297.99

Discussion in 'Hot Deals - Find a Great Deal? Share It Here.' started by Jay_M, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Telonson

    Telonson Mu-43 Veteran

    492
    Dec 24, 2017
    In general, machine learning is tremendously asymmetrical. Requiring large amounts of computer time to train, but once trained, produces code able to run quickly on minimal processors. Google has said that many of their image recognition processes required months to train on dedicated server farms (effective super computers). Yet the algorithm that training created is able to run locally on an average smart phone.

    For instance, all the machine learning enhanced camera processes on Google's Pixel phones run locally on the phone, and in many cases do not use much processor. We know this because Google's camera application has been ported / hacked to run on lesser phones with much less processor capability.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. speedy

    speedy Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Nov 27, 2015
    Here ya go, from the horses mouth
    Fast, skilful and sleek LUMIX G9: Delivering best-in class performance for the photo enthusiast – Panasonic Australia News

    And I quote from that link
    Contrast AF with DFD (Depth From Defocus) technology has been further advanced, with the G9 able to achieve an industry-leading AF of 0.04 secvi (approx.). The camera’s high processing performance also allows it to incorporate Deep Learning technology (in addition to the conventional Face/Eye Recognition) – which detects the human body and is intended for action and sports photography.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Telonson

    Telonson Mu-43 Veteran

    492
    Dec 24, 2017
    In general, self-learning is not machine learning.

    To achieve optimal A.I. enhanced focus, Panasonic would provide a training algorithm with large data sets of example imagery. Scenes that are in focus, out of focus, and most importantly, scenes that tend to confuse their current implementation of auto focus.

    The algorithm created by this process would then be tested against similar scenes, but none it has actually experienced before. If the algorithm performs well on the previously unseen data, it could then be rolled out to production. If it does not perform well, then more data and more training would be required.

    The user's use of that algorithm can never improve it. If users discover edge cases that the algorithm performs poorly upon, Panasonic would need to recreate those conditions in their facility, using those edge case scenes to further train the algorithm. After testing, that revised algorithm could then be sent out as a firmware update to users.

    This could be what they're doing to improve GH5 and G9 auto-focus.
     
  4. Mike Wingate

    Mike Wingate Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 21, 2017
    Altrincham
    Mike Wingate
    £1199 less £200 cashback in the U.K. Today. Lowest price ever.
     
  5. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I am a little bit worried about the pricing that Panasonic is resorting to on the G9. It's only been on the market for a year, and it's clearly a much higher-end body than something like the A7 II which is selling at similar prices, and these are really deep discounts. I am sure part of it is that Panasonic clearly baked fairly large margins into the body, but I really don't know how much profit there is, since there's still a fair bit of unique R&D (i.e. larger body differences between the G9 and the GH5 than the various iterations of A7x or A6xxx)

    Another part of it is that the market is a hard one to target. Personally, I have less than no interest in a G9 with the form factor that it has, though I would be happy to see some of those features in a different body. But by the same token, the G9's body seems to have attracted a fair number of people specifically because of its familiar DSLR-like form factor.

    I guess it's reflective of the hyper-nichification of the camera market, but it's definitely got to be tougher to keep making money. And that doesn't really bode well for anyone.

    Realistically, I think the single-digit G line and the GH-line could easily be combined into a single model. A GH6 could have all of the GH5's high-end video features (and more) and all of the G9's high-end stills features (and more) and they wouldn't need to be make undue compromises to the engineering. My impression of the G9 is that it was made as much for marketing reasons as anything else, due to the idea that the GH5 isn't a great stills camera because it's so good at video. It would be nice if Panasonic could somehow shed that taboo, and reduce their non-recurrent engineering costs...

    I do hope that there is another double-digit G camera that trickles down from the G9. I've accepted that a higher-end rangefinder like the GX8 Mk. II is probably not going to happen, but it would be super disappointing if there is no mid-range camera that incorporates some of the basic UI improvements (mainly Auto ISO in M with Exp. Comp) that Panasonic has introduced in the last 2 years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    I think the problem is that they launched two GH5 models at essentially the same time. Having 3 flagships creates confusion and the GH line has a long running fan base with clear marketing. Not surprised the GH5 is doing better.

    I also think that the lack of PDAF is unforgivable by much of its target market.
     
  7. InlawBiker

    InlawBiker Mu-43 Veteran

    338
    Feb 1, 2012
    Seattle, WA
    Greg
    I'm glad there's a G9. I was never going to buy a GH camera because I'm paying for video features I'd never use.

    But I was also not interested in the G9 for the same reason I wasn't interested in the E-M1 II. I don't need the pure speed features so why pay for them? With the new lower pricing, sure I'll probably do even though I don't need to. I just wish it was smaller like the E-M1's.

    The aggressive price cut are likely because of the new Canon/Nikon R and Z. They are actually a little smaller than the G9.

    Greg.
     
  8. robfilms

    robfilms Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    79
    May 28, 2017
    metro nyc
    mike-

    if the same deal appeared in the states in usd, ($1199-$200 cash back = $1k)i would seriously think about buying a g9 in a wink.

    thumbs up.

    rob
     
  9. speedy

    speedy Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Nov 27, 2015
    I wasn't either. But what else do you buy (m4/3) that has a 20mp sensor, a decent EVF, a decent grip, and excellent AF-C?
    They gimped the GX9, the EM1.2 is still way more expensive, the Pen F does not have good AFC, so there's not much else.
    I don't do video so they GH5 is even more overkill.
    If the G line dies, and the GX remains hobbled, then I see Fuji in my future. Given the latest rumours on the EM1 replacement pricing. It'll be a few years before my G9 fails to proceed, so who knows what will happen in that time
     
  10. InlawBiker

    InlawBiker Mu-43 Veteran

    338
    Feb 1, 2012
    Seattle, WA
    Greg
    I think we are on the same page speedy. The XT3 is priced just right and is the same size as the excellent G9. I know there are pitfalls in that system and it's a pain to switch systems entirely so I doubt I'd really do it.
     
  11. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I agree with what you're saying, and think that Nikon was smart to make the Z6 and Z7 share so many of the physical components, as it reduces capital items like tooling for individual camera body designs, and enables a company to leverage economies of scale when it comes to ordering components (like how the Z6 & Z7 share the same EVF & LCD, something that Sony doesn't do with the A7 III and A7R III), reducing the variable costs associated with the cameras.

    I recall there being a rumor months back about Panasonic consolidating the "G9" and "GH5" lines in to a single camera, where the additional video features could be unlocked via a pay-for DLC (kind of like VLOG). In my mind, this makes perfect sense. It helps the company spend its money more wisely, without sacrificing or skimping on features.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. speedy

    speedy Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Nov 27, 2015
    The only issue with that, is that the G variant gets way bigger than it needs to be. Even more so as video becomes more advanced in the future, as the GH5 requires more physical volume to enable sufficient cooling. Panasonic engineers themselves stated that they were surprised that the GH5 ended up as small as it did.
    Personally , I've gone about full circle body size wise, and ended up right back where I started. My G9 is nearly exactly the same size as my old 550D, which I enjoyed immensely. Ergonomics wise. Just right.
    The only real reason I ended up in m4/3 land, was the excellent selection of small fast primes. And reasonably sized, competent crop bodies. Guess who the other manufacturer is, who has seen fit to go down that road.
     
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