Panasonic Leica DG Nocticron 42.5mm F1.2 ASPH Announced.... Again

[dolbydunn]

Sir, this conversation has become circular. I have failed to find a way to express why I don't want to buy this lens in a way that doesn't get you upset, and you haven't offered any new information that has changed my mind about wanting to buy it. This conversation doesn't benefit either of us, and it only serves to get you more upset, which was not my intent.

I hope you find great enjoyment in this lens. I can't wait to see your photos.

Cheers!

Brother JamieW,

I can't tell if your post is directed at me or not. As far as I can tell I have not directed any criticism at you personally. (I am not even sure if we have exchanged even a single post). It's of no concern to me what you buy or don't buy. As for this particular exotic lens, I won't be purchasing it either, as I already have the Oly 45mm f1.8 and it is plenty good enough for my needs.

JamieW, I don't claim to be a REAL photographer or a even pretend to be one on the internet. I was a camera repairman in the 1970's and have been a hobby photographer/videographer for over 40 years. My main qualifications are 30 years of automotive Tool & Die and 20 years of Tool and Die related CAD/CAM. My specialty is precision machinery. Hence my interest in camera technology,

I am NOT a fanatic for any gadget maker. I am a vocal proponent of Skilled Workers. I believe that Craftsmanship, and "Skilled Hands" will ALWAYS command a higher price. NOTHING whatsoever to do with anyone's budget or their favorite camera company.

The reason I speak up for Leica here is that they have done no wrong, no harm - yet Leica is being pilloried with pin-headed criticism which deserves a response. I am only sorry to be such a mediocre spokesman for Leica and their Legendary Products, (which I can never hope to own). I am thankful to Leica for setting HIGH Standards as a challenge to others.

 

[RoadTraveler]

If I may possibly mediate a bit, or at least add another view… As a participant in this discussion, but one who has not felt understood or accused, I'd say the differing opinions here have been articulated well and in very mature, rational tones. It appears quite likely that who was commenting on who's past post has not been clear for a while…

Regardless, it seems some like Leica, some don't, or some think the lens is expensive (whether for their budget or value) while some don't, or any combination thereof. We often agree to disagree.

The sincere, respectful tone for any misunderstanding or disagreement from you gentlemen is absolutely impressive and much respected by me, and a bit rare on forums, often heavy moderation is needed. The tone and the quality of the discussions and people here on mu-43.com make it a fun and worthwhile place to participate!

 

[dolbydunn]

If I may possibly mediate a bit, or at least add another view… As a participant in this discussion, but one who has not felt understood or accused, I'd say the differing opinions here have been articulated well and in very mature, rational tones. It appears quite likely that who was commenting on who's past post has not been clear for a while…

Regardless, it seems some like Leica, some don't, or some think the lens is expensive (whether for their budget or value) while some don't, or any combination thereof. We often agree to disagree.

The sincere, respectful tone for any misunderstanding or disagreement from you gentlemen is absolutely impressive and much respected by me, and a bit rare on forums, often heavy moderation is needed. The tone and the quality of the discussions and people here on mu-43.com make it a fun and worthwhile place to participate!

You are right!!! Thanks for the gentle reminder.

 

[WasOM3user]

From my point of view I will not be buying this lens because of the fact that I am not good enough to exploit it effectively on enough occasions to justify upgrading from the Oly 45 F1.8.

However if we want m4/3 to become more attractive to "PRO" photographers and gain wider acceptance we need more lenses targeted at these photographers with specialised requirements. I think this is one such lens - if you make your living using this focal length a lot then there is a good reason to purchase.

There has always been two ranges of lenses developed for camera ranges (the old OM series had three 50mm's). I could never justify buying the faster version. As someone else has pointed out it appears to have been priced in a similar fashion to the Canon F1.2 lenses at 5 x the F1.8 version and as seems to Oly & Pana's strategy just below the FF/APSC versions.

I don't think Pana expect to sell huge amounts of these lenses so the development costs have to be higher per lens. Again I don't see this to be any different to the really fast glass on any system.

I welcome the development if such lenses as it shows:-
1 Pana are really committed to m4/3 ( perhaps this lens is also targeted towards the new 4K version of the GH series).
2 it's one less reason that might stop someone moving to m4/3.

Some photographers won't move to m4/3 until there are more lenses like this. So PLEASE Panasonic and Olympus keep working on fast glass as well as updating the already in production ranges.

 

[tosvus]

If I may possibly mediate a bit, or at least add another view… As a participant in this discussion, but one who has not felt understood or accused, I'd say the differing opinions here have been articulated well and in very mature, rational tones. It appears quite likely that who was commenting on who's past post has not been clear for a while…

Regardless, it seems some like Leica, some don't, or some think the lens is expensive (whether for their budget or value) while some don't, or any combination thereof. We often agree to disagree.

The sincere, respectful tone for any misunderstanding or disagreement from you gentlemen is absolutely impressive and much respected by me, and a bit rare on forums, often heavy moderation is needed. The tone and the quality of the discussions and people here on mu-43.com make it a fun and worthwhile place to participate!

Thank you for the good mediation! I realize that personally, I need to remind myself that people that frequent this forum have a wide range of background, budgets, interest level, and that some make money on their photography while others don't. I agree there is clearly people that will have great benefit from this lens, and by no means do I think it is a bad lens (actually, the opposite, I suspect it is outstanding). From my (perhaps selfish) view however, I wish Panasonic had catered more to the customer group I belong to (which I in fairness think is a lot larger than the one the Nocticron is clearly aimed at).

 

[BobbyTan]

I am tossed between buying this lens now and waiting for the price to drop to $1,400 or better yet, to $1,200. But I am impatient. Can't wait 2 months, much less a year. I think this lens is quite expensive compared to the Fuji. However, if you compare it to the Canon 85L II it is very inexpensive. To me, the Nocticron is a better lens with very little CA (compared to Canon which is horrendous!) and I am sure AF is not only super-quick (Canon is painfully slow!) but extremely accurate with no front or back-focussing issues - so there is no need to periodically do a micro AF adjust, as you may have to with the Canon lens. And guess what? The Nocticron is less than half the size and weight of the Canon 85L II.

 

[RoadTraveler]

snip... And guess what? The Nocticron is less than half the size and weight of the Canon 85L II.

Nice galleries on your site. :smile:

James

 

[woody112704]

I would have to wait and see more pictures of what this lens is really made for and that is portraits. On the links posted in this thread there haven't been too many portrait shots. And most of the shots were in the f/stop range of what you can do with the Oly. I was really interested in this lens but having thought about it, where it really sits apart from the Oly will probably be in portraits and I'm not too huge in portrait photography myself. I'm more of a landscape, cityscape and out doors shooting than portraits. Although I will probably get the Oly or maybe spring for the Voigtlander to do some portraits that some family members want, it's not really my forte or particular interest.

Having said that this makes me think of a blog article I have recently read where the guy got Sony's RX1 and pretty much exclusively used that for the year last year and how he said it made him a better photographer. Here's the link http://www.onemorelens.com/2013/12/how-rx1-made-photographer-out-of-me.html and his quote "Same thing goes for composition. For years, I did what I see many amateur photographers do. We use narrow depth of field as a crutch to get past the fact that our sense of composition is terrible. That uber fast, f1.2 85mm will deliver the creamiest bokeh you've ever seen, but a great photographer can make an equally interesting & engaging photograph at f8." I fully agree with this and for me personally I'm going to take the time to get better as a photographer and in time I may get this lens. But knowing how good of a quality this lens is, I know it will be around for a long time.

 

[Lindsay D]

"For what it is" (a very high quality fast prime lens which might be a Leica) it isn't overpriced. A more pertinent question would be "will Micro 4/3 users be prepared to pay this kind of money". Some probably will - the professional and semi-professional users, the very advanced amateurs, and those who have a lot of money to throw around. Currently there are proportionately less professional uses as there would be versus Canikon, so sales of this lens will probably not be very high. With that in mind, some price moderation may be required.

As a professional portrait photographer I need to weigh up the economic benefit of any purchase. Therefore I need to ask myself if this lens will give me an economic advantage over my current 45 f1.8. The Oly 45 is so very good, that I cannot see a significant benefit in purchasing the new one. I already have shallow depth of field and wonderful optical qualities from the 45. I can live without a higher build quality, because I like how lightweight the 45 is. The only advantage I would have with this new lens is if my hand were forced in very low light, which is probably unlikely. Therefore if I were to own it, it would be more for pleasure and the slim possibility that a client would notice whatever improvement in rendering might be seen. In terms of my Canon kit, I've never bothered with the ultrafast primes, finding the pro zooms to be more than good enough.

 

[BobbyTan]

"For what it is" (a very high quality fast prime lens which might be a Leica) it isn't overpriced. A more pertinent question would be "will Micro 4/3 users be prepared to pay this kind of money". Some probably will - the professional and semi-professional users, the very advanced amateurs, and those who have a lot of money to throw around. Currently there are proportionately less professional uses as there would be versus Canikon, so sales of this lens will probably not be very high. With that in mind, some price moderation may be required.

As a professional portrait photographer I need to weigh up the economic benefit of any purchase. Therefore I need to ask myself if this lens will give me an economic advantage over my current 45 f1.8. The Oly 45 is so very good, that I cannot see a significant benefit in purchasing the new one. I already have shallow depth of field and wonderful optical qualities from the 45. I can live without a higher build quality, because I like how lightweight the 45 is. The only advantage I would have with this new lens is if my hand were forced in very low light, which is probably unlikely. Therefore if I were to own it, it would be more for pleasure and the slim possibility that a client would notice whatever improvement in rendering might be seen. In terms of my Canon kit, I've never bothered with the ultrafast primes, finding the pro zooms to be more than good enough.

You are an amazing photographer, Lindsay, and I am a big fan of your work! Looking at your people photography one would think that you absolutely need fast glass … but you don't!

 

[tosvus]

Lindsay, after reading Bobby's comments, I got curious and checked out your site as well. I absolutely agree - excellent stuff, and some of them look like they belong in magazines! Can you tell roughly the percentage of shots in your gallery that was done on m43 vs your Canon equipment?

 

[dolbydunn]

You are an amazing photographer, Lindsay, and I am a big fan of your work!

You're are also an amazing photographer BobbyTan! Nice Work!

 

[Lindsay D]

Thank you Bobby. To me, f1.8 is easily fast enough on my micro four thirds cameras, and I do love my Pana 35-100 f2.8 for portraiture. Therefore the new Nocticron would be a difficult one in terms of the 'need vs want' equation. I will probably have one to try out, but whether I feel compelled to keep it or not is uncertain. The little Oly 45 is so impressive, I think it is the main reason why this new lens may prove less saleable.

 

[Lindsay D]

You're are also an amazing photographer BobbyTan! Nice Work!

He certainly is! I love the carnival/Venice shots, they're gorgeous.

 

[Lindsay D]

Lindsay, after reading Bobby's comments, I got curious and checked out your site as well. I absolutely agree - excellent stuff, and some of them look like they belong in magazines! Can you tell roughly the percentage of shots in your gallery that was done on m43 vs your Canon equipment?

Thank you - the flash gallery add-on ('Galleries' on the top menu bar) is quite old and probably spans about six years, so I would guess just under a quarter would be micro 4/3 images (the rest mostly from very old DSLRs with much less capability than today's micro 4/3 offerings). However my Blog (and my other blog, which concentrates exclusively on pet and animal photography) and Personal Work section is entirely micro 4/3 in content from November 2012 (with the exception of a couple of Fuji posts and London Fashion Week where I was representing Canon and therefore had to use my Canon stuff).

 

[tosvus]

Thank you - the flash gallery add-on ('Galleries' on the top menu bar) is quite old and probably spans about six years, so I would guess just under a quarter would be micro 4/3 images (the rest mostly from very old DSLRs with much less capability than today's micro 4/3 offerings). However my Blog (and my other blog, which concentrates exclusively on pet and animal photography) and Personal Work section is entirely micro 4/3 in content from November 2012 (with the exception of a couple of Fuji posts and London Fashion Week where I was representing Canon and therefore had to use my Canon stuff).

Thanks a lot, very interesting blog posts as well! I am glad to see you even find the 35-100 useful for portraits. I actually put this on my wish-list when I realized that the Nocticron was out of my reach. (Not because I thought that it could replace it, but I tried to re-prioritize based on the situations I take pictures in, and realized that having one lens with weathersealing, is high quality, relatively good f-stop and OIS would be very useful.) That you can take nice portraits with it as well is just great!

 

[Lindsay D]

Tosvus, the 35-100 (and the 45 f1.8) are my 'go to' portrait lenses. They mimic the focal lengths which I've become most used to over the last decade, such as the Canon 70-200 which was my workhorse lens for a while. The depth of field is also near enough given that with the Canon I would normally be shooting at around f4 or f5.6 - this gives plenty of separation along with a small safety margin which is vital if your subjects are likely to move a bit (or a lot, where some of mine are concerned) and of course for occasions when you photograph more than one person. I have not lost anything in lens terms by switching to Micro 4/3, in fact I'm constantly impressed by how great the lenses are (my full frame lenses would usually benefit from stopping down a little anyway, many of them weren't particularly sharp wide open). The depth of field equation is quite easy to manipulate, you can change your focal length, lens to subject distance, and subject to background distance (location allowing, of course) and get a variety of different looks. I can of course shoot my Micro 4/3 lenses wide open, gaining all of the extra light but not ending up with unusably thin depth of field.

 

[BobbyTan]

Thank you James (RoadTraveler), dolbydunn and Lindsay for your kind words! Appreciate it.

 

[BobbyTan]

He certainly is! I love the carnival/Venice shots, they're gorgeous.

Thank you, Lindsay! Sadly, my friends and I decided to give the 2014 Venice Mask Carnival a miss … but we will be back there next year … and hopefully I will have the Nocticron lens by then … and very likely sooner! I need every little bit of help I can get from a great lens, as I am not as talented as you are!

 

[tosvus]

BobbyTan, I had to check out your page too, and indeed - incredible shots there as well. Not having had time to look at it all, so far the ones from China are my favorites!

It's really nice to see everyone's work - I need to put up some of my stuff in the next few weeks as well, but I am an amateur in every sense of the word, so don't get your hopes up