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Panasonic Kills GM & GF Lines

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by ijm5012, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Big news: Panasonic will kill the GF and GM line! - 43 Rumors

    Can't say it really comes as a surprise. There wasn't a real market for a low-end ILC like the GF7, and the GM5 had been discontinued months ago with no new SKU to hint at a replacement.

    I think this is a good idea by Panasonic. Focus on three lines of cameras, not five.
     
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  2. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran

    628
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    I agree to a certain extend - concentration is helpful. I'd've liked to see a further development on the GM5, though - in my opinion, it was a big step forward fromt he GM1 in terms of usability (EVF, but also controls), and it certainly is an iconic camera that shows what :mu43: could be ...

    That said, the GM5, nice as it may be, is too small (and also a little too expensive) for my own taste. I went for a GX80 instead - feels like a slightly bigger, more substantial LX100 in my hands, really very comfortable, and only a little more expensive than the GM5 around here ...

    M.
     
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  3. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I agree. While the GM line was certainly an interesting engineering exercise, the cameras were downright tiny (as small, and sometimes smaller than P&S cameras). While a few people loved this, it meant that buttons needed to be so small in order to fit them on the camera that you had to push them with the tip of your fingernail. It also meant that you couldn't fit an EVF of any reasonable size on the camera, and you couldn't incorporate any form of articulating in the rear LCD.

    I think another big reason the lines were killed is that Panasonic is clearly pushing 4K in every single camera they make and sell, and may even begin to push IBIS in every camera (I would be shocked if the GH5 didn't have the IBIS mechanism from the GX80/85). With cameras that small, there are definitely thermal issues with shooting 4K, and there's no room to implement IBIS.

    I personally am glad to see the lines go, as it means that resources that would have been tied up on those cameras can now be put on other camera lines to help speed up the development.
     
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  4. longviewer

    longviewer Mu-43 Regular

    128
    Oct 22, 2015
    SW Washington (Longview area)
    Jim R
    Most of us thought the GX1 made GFx redundant long ago, it just took Panasonic a while to notice! I am surprised that the GM series hasn't gained enough market to try again.. though this notice doesn't preclude another line of mini models taking its place.
     
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  5. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    It had been reported previously that the GF and GM line were sales duds. Why reiterate the same concept that didn't sell well previously?
     
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  6. joma416

    joma416 Mu-43 Regular

    57
    Aug 31, 2014
    Toronto, ON Canada
    John
    I still think they need some sort of entry level camera at an entry level price. I'm not sure how feasible it is to design, build and sell a mirror-less camera at around $300 USD though. It seems like all camera makers struggle with this to a certain extent: Release so called "entry level camera" in the $600-$800 range, endure tepid sales for a year and a half, discount to move inventory before release a new model, watch the discounted model move to the top of the sales chart.

    I tried out the GM1 in a camera shop when it was released. I am not a big guy and it felt too small for me. I really wanted to like it, I would even go so far as to say that I wanted to love it. I still use a GX1 and I find it is the perfect size for me.
     
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  7. longviewer

    longviewer Mu-43 Regular

    128
    Oct 22, 2015
    SW Washington (Longview area)
    Jim R
    If Nikon1 and Pentax.Q are gone and P&S nearly so, it leaves quite a void there for the 'right' product. Perhaps there's no demand at all, but the Asian market (and GX85) show that an interest in talented small cameras still exists.
     
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  8. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Why? Nobody is building those cameras anymore. Fuji's "entry level" camera is the X-E2s or X-T10. Sony's "entry level" camera is the a6000. Olympus' current "entry level" camera is the E-M10 II (though when the E-PL8 comes out, that will be it). Canon has their Rebel T6, and Nikon has their D3000 and D5000 series. Panasonic has their G7 and GX80/85, which line up competitively with the above mentioned cameras.

    The bottom line is that nobody is buying these super-cheap, super small ILC cameras like the GM5 and GF7. And if nobody is buying them, then it makes no sense to dedicate resources to building a product very few will buy.
     
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  9. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran

    628
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    I concur. Even Olympus let go of the PM line - they were capable little cameras, but simply didn't sell well enough. I think the PL line is doomed as well mid-term - not because of capability, but because of market success. I'm still fond of the E-PL7 - it handles great and is a capable street shooter (a sort of :mu43: GR substitute, in a way - well, not quite, but maybe you get the idea ...), but without an EVF, the line's doomed IMO; the E-PL8 is even going to take away some of the handling advantages (the fantastic grip).
    I experienced the same thing - in fact, I prefer the old and certainly less capable GF1 because of its size and heft; even the quite frugal E-PM1 feels more secure and positive in the hand. But I know a number of people who like the GM1 and certainly the GM5. I think those models would have sold better if they hadn't tried to emulate the compact camera gestalt this much, though. They look like compacts, but are more expensive and a little(!) bulkier (no longer pants-pocket-friendly) - people don't seem to like that combination ...

    M.
     
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  10. joma416

    joma416 Mu-43 Regular

    57
    Aug 31, 2014
    Toronto, ON Canada
    John
    My reasoning is that without an entry level camera they will have a hard time getting new users into the system. It likely depends on the market you live in, but in Canada I can always seem to find a Canon or Nikon entry level SLR for sale for under $500 CAD which is currently around the equivalent of $380 USD. The only current mu43 cameras competitive price wise with that right now is the still clearing out GM1 at $499 CAD and the E-PL7 also at $499.

    Maybe I am in the minority, but I ended up in mu-43 due to price. When I bought my GF2 while it was clearing out, the Fuji and Sony camera were close to double in price. At that stage in my life I simply could not afford to spend $300 to $400 more. Many lenses later and overall satisfied with the system, I haven't left.

    Maybe they are better off ignoring the more frugal people like me entering the system and focusing on people who own an SLR and want to move to mirror-less for size?
     
  11. Danny_SWE

    Danny_SWE Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 30, 2013
    Sweden (Gothenburg)
    Not a surprise. Well I like the GM, nice to have as addition.
     
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  12. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    While not terribly surprised I am a little disappointed with the end of the GM line. I would have to agree, IBIS in such a small body would probably be an issue. But I've enjoyed using them and it can be handy to have such a small second / backup body.
     
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  13. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran

    628
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    I don't think you're wrong - my way into :mu43: was similar. But I discovered that I really liked what the system was capable of and started to invest some serious money; in other words, the possibilities kept me around, not the first acquisition (at a very low price, admittedly).

    However, most people don't buy cameras for the system - they buy them to be done with buying cameras (or until something else becomes fashionable); and if a camera doesn't fit into a certain simple paradigm (pocketable, impressive, stylish - just stay superficial to add more of those concepts), they won't buy it. So, if they want a very compact camera, a GM1 will appeal at first sight, but lose out against the 1" compacts (G7X, RX100 and the like) because it's not quite as pocketable; if they want versatile, it'll lose out against the latest travel superzoom cameras in terms of reach - even if those can't hold a candle to its IQ; but that's simply not the main issue. In the end, Panasonic produced a very capable camera that's actually tiny compared to what it delivers, but most people simply don't get that. If they want small, it's too bulky, if they want impressive, it's too tiny or even too cute. To most buyers, it's simply not a stand-out product (it is to :mu43: afficionados - even if they don't choose it for some reason or other). Not my mindset I'm describing here, to be sure ...

    M.
     
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  14. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Price and size for me. I was getting ready to go on a vacation and the smallest thing I had to take with me was a D700 and old 28-105. I picked up an E-PM1 and kit lens for about $300, they are smaller and lighter than the 28-105.
     
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  15. palombasso

    palombasso Mu-43 Regular

    61
    Jan 31, 2014
    Although the rumor still mentions 4 lines of number patterns, so the camera lines could still be expanded.

    Are they discontinuing the concept or just the names gf and gm?

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
  16. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I see the logic of G series and GH series being the more entry-level versus pro level DSLR type cams, but they don't have a similar duality in the GX rangefinder style bodies unless they continue the odd GX8/GX85 convention. Seems like melding the GM into the GX85 and keeping that as a more entry-level or smaller rangefinder option might be a good idea.
     
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  17. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Not sure I'd call the GX85 entry level. It seems a GM / GF melding might have a single instead of dual dials. Probably wouldn't have both built in flash AND hot shoe either.
     
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  18. Repp

    Repp Mu-43 Top Veteran

    500
    Jan 27, 2011
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Looks like they are renaming the entire line-up as well, which I think needed to happen with the confusing GX7ii/80/85 fun they just put us through...

    I'm sad though, the GM line is a great back-up camera for travel or for when you want to just have a super small kit with you. Though if I'm being honest, was missing some features to be a true back-up camera for me now that I'm also doing OCF. Think I might look into getting my GM1 IR converted down the road at some point.
     
  19. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    In terms of price, not in terms of features.
     
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  20. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    I guess. I mean the E-M10 mkI/II are entry level into the OMD line, but like the GX85 have features/control well above entry level DSLRs.
     
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