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Panasonic jpegs (GX1 claims of 'best jpegs of u43 ever')

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by yottavirus, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. yottavirus

    yottavirus Mu-43 Regular

    115
    Aug 13, 2011
    I'm one of those shooters that take a very small number of select shots per day which justifies the permanent use of raw files. I'm content to leave the thorough snap snapping to my friends. However I do realise that many here do prefer the latter style, and unprocessed jpegs are desirable to them, and if the camera has it, why not?

    Therefore the claim by panasonic that their gx1 will have superlative jpegs (paraphrased) is of considerable importance to many.

    My point of view is that Jpegs have the same potential, as long as the camera allows you to adjust the settings. I've owned or had extended access to 3 olympus cameras and 3 panasonic cameras, e-pl2, xz-1 and e-p3 borrowed, gf2, lx5, and gf3 borrowed. I've never been happy or unhappy about the quality of the OOC jpegs that I've seen, but I've seen some proclaim that olympus' jpeg engine is a significant reason to consider an olympus over a panasonic.

    Looking at the panasonic's second newest jpeg engine compared to the olympus one it seems like panasonic has lifted their game up enough for 'olympus jpegs' to not matter, but the bandwagon is still rolling.

    Pretty much factory settings, both jpeg, +1 sharpness, +1 contrast, 0 saturation
    Panasonic profile: Standard
    Olympus profile: Natural

    Auto WB, panasonic
    P1010015.
    Auto WB, olympus
    [​IMG]

    The olympus is very warm. If x is the ideal, both are quite close but the tint is just too strong.
    colder----px--o--warmer

    Card set WB, panasonic
    P1010017.
    Card set WB, olympus
    PB080008.

    The olympus has a strong magenta/red tinge, reminding me of velvia, while the panasonic is far more accurate.

    Though I have not tested, I would subjectively say that the ooc jpegs from my e-pl2 are more pleasing than those from the lx5, but it is likely that I was under the placebo effect, as well as expectation bias.

    Since both are without WB micro-adjustments, it would take a couple of button presses on both ends to obtain whatever result you'd want, whether accurate, warm, or cool. The abundance of profile and micro-adjustment settings offers an enormous pool of possible combinations to achieve the look that you want. This suggests that people have been basing their observations on old jpegs, jpegs that have been produced by suboptimal user settings or are just biased by the placebo and halo effects.

    Considering the adaptability of any camera's jpeg output and the performance of panasonic's latest processor, I would expect that panasonic's claim is realistic in the subjective sense, but objectively minor.


    Note that AB comparisons in photography are solely for philosophical purposes, as if you subjectively find A adequate, nothing else matters.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. FastCorner

    FastCorner Mu-43 Veteran

    310
    May 28, 2011
    What exactly is "card set" WB? I would expect the differences to be a lot smaller if you're setting the WB manually.
     
  3. yottavirus

    yottavirus Mu-43 Regular

    115
    Aug 13, 2011
    Take a picture of a card in the lighting condition. It's called 'one touch' and 'white set', but neither really made sense.
     
  4. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I actually traded up my G3/GF2 combo for an E-PM1/E-PL2 combo. It's not the Olympus AWB that I find superior, but Olympus' shadow gradation setting. I found no matter what I did with the G3, it just couldn't handle contrasty conditions, my Olympus bodies on the other can meter and handle contrasty conditions far better.
     
  5. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Well I'm glad that I shoot in RAW - I don't have to worry about this debate....:tongue:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I like my shots looking perfect out the box. I don't like having to rely on raw to fix things. :wink:
     
  7. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    I shoot film also so we can talk about getting it perfect all day if you want. :smile:
     
  8. pjohngren

    pjohngren Mu-43 Top Veteran

    560
    Oct 15, 2010
    The G3's jpegs are pretty terrific and extremely tweakable. I would assume that the GX1 is a further extension of the G3 in this regard. It remains for me a sheer joy to work with the camera to do much of the processing, and get that "wow" factor when all the images are downloaded and look so close to what I had in mind when I pressed the shutter.
     
  9. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    The darkroom is old school photoshop! :tongue:
     
  10. M4/3

    M4/3 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    713
    Sep 24, 2011
    Compare Oly vs. Panny outdoor landscape jpegs. That's where Oly jpegs shine. They have a richness to them that makes you want to say "breathtaking".
     
  11. Hikari

    Hikari Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2010
    Actually, there is nothing in your color test that I can see that would allow you to make a judgement. You also have to question your target for custom WB--there is not a whole bunch of difference between custom and auto WB, so I would question your conditions/target in the test.
     
  12. yottavirus

    yottavirus Mu-43 Regular

    115
    Aug 13, 2011
    Question away, but differently; I have no idea what you're trying to ask.

    I would also recommend a better monitor if you cannot see the difference between the images.
     
  13. Dave in Wales

    Dave in Wales Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 5, 2011
    West Wales
    :thiagree: https://www.mu-43.com/f43/g3-gobsmacked-over-moon-happy-pig-p-p-pics-added-18086/

    D in W
     
  14. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    I don't see a significant difference between them. The Olympus shots are warmer and have a pinkish cast and the Panasonic's appear to be cooler with a blue or greenish hue. That said, it's not that big a difference and easily corrected.

    What I find a bit more interesting is that the Panasonic shots appear to be sharper. There seems to be a bit more detail. I assume this is coming form whatever are the default settings in the camera vs the Olympus. As to whether the GX1 really does produce the best OOC JPEGs...I'm guessing it's just Panasonic trying to address what is perceived as their big weakness relative to Olympus. Personally I have never found it to be the case. My Panasonic's JPEGs are every bit as good as the ones I get from my Olympus.
     
  15. yottavirus

    yottavirus Mu-43 Regular

    115
    Aug 13, 2011
    The important part is specifically the last bit. As without adjustments, they're already very similar. If people saw only one of them, there is no way that they could tell what it is. If people adjust their settings to their liking, no camera is deficient.

    Different lenses at the same f-stop. Kitlens vs 20/1.7 at f/icantremember.

    Yep, completely agree.
     
  16. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    My biggest complaint about Panasonic's jpeg engine's in the past was heavy handed NR and bad skin tones. If anything, their daylight images appear more natural than Olys. Sometimes I want pop, sometimes I don't. I was really happy with the E-P1 jpegs. I'm having trouble with the E-PL2 settings.
     
  17. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    I had a G1 and found the JPEGs to be fine most of the time, but every so often in outdoor scenes it would throw up horrible colour shifts that were difficult to correct. I certainly hope Panasonic has improved in this respect.

    I find Olympus JPEGs far superior, although on some models you do need to turn the warm bias default off in the menu settings.

    Sometimes when I'm in casual photography walk-about mode, taking lots of pictures, I like to use JPEGs for convenience. I almost always like to use raw when using my E-3 DSLR but very rarely do I need to adjust the WB from how it was shot, it's that accurate.
     
  18. elandel

    elandel Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 16, 2010
    Milan, Italy
    I agree with you. I don't like PP so I try to make my shots as good as possible straight out of the box.
     
  19. yottavirus

    yottavirus Mu-43 Regular

    115
    Aug 13, 2011
    The out of box settings are done at the factory and are for the point and shoot crowd who don't end up changing any/many settings. I would imagine that 100% of u43 users purchased a u43 system because of the adaptability that it offers over a point and shoot. It's really surprising to find out that so many don't customise their settings, which is an ability that people have paid more to obtain.

    I prefer raw because each photograph I take aspires to be art rather than happy snaps, therefore I would like control over its aspects rather than allow some monkey in a factory to choose them for me. I do switch to jpeg when I care less, but even then I adjust the settings to my liking and intent.
     
  20. snkenai

    snkenai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    523
    Sep 5, 2010
    I spend the extra money for better detail and the ability to choose the lens for the chore at hand. I don't want to spend time at the computer for every shot. I do use raw when shooting events inside where the lighting is less than perfect, and the pics are a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. So most of the time I use "out of the box", with the occasional tweak for a special shot. So the Jpeg output is important to me. That said, I have been able to get it right with both Panasonic and Olympus.