Panasonic G9 - no blackout in continuous shooting

[Mikehit]

I am currently using a G85 with a Pana 100-400 for in-flight photography and the thing I find most frustrating is trying to track a bird in flight when the auto-preview of the image just taken interferes with watching what the bird is doing. This is no different to the 'mirror up' time on a DSLR.

I understand the G9 has no-blackout continuous shooting and this seems appealing. But comments on the internet seem to conflate different things which ends up with me confused. So my understanding is that there are 3 things that affect your ability to see the bird the full time it is in flight:
1- refresh rate of the EVF. There is nothing really can be done with this so I would have to live with it
2 - the shutter mechanism creating a blackout. This is not an issue if you use electronic shutter
3- the dreaded auto-preview of the photo you have just taken

To me, the ideal situation would be that shooting without blackout means you are shooting 20 frames per second and you would see the bird in the frame just as if you were shooting video, with absolutely nothing to interfere with being able to see what the bird is doing and make sure it is still in the centre of the frame. This means no auto preview of the shot just taken and no shutter actuation. I guess limitations from refresh rate is something you have to live with.

Unfortunately many reviews seem to be done by people who rarely shoot action photography so IMO their comments are not really in the context of maximising the hit rate and are at the level of 'oh, that's nice'. So after reading several threads on different fora, I have come to the conclusion that in electronic shutter mode, you get the get auto preview of each shot. And that in 6k mode you get the image preview of the first shot in a burst but not for subsequent shots.

Am I correct in this? Does it depend on frame rate and normal vs 6K? There seem to be so many caveats I want to make sure that if I go for the G9 I am getting what I am expecting.

 

[kinlau]

With my G9 and electronic shutter up to about 10 FPS, you get a constant image. Reallly throws you off if you’re not used to it, and there’s not much to indicate that you’re blasting away at 10 FPS, I have many inadvertent shots with the G9’s extremely light shutter release. There is a bit of a stutter if you’re shooting a fast moving subject and AF is trying to catch up.

 

[whumber]

With my G9 and electronic shutter up to about 10 FPS, you get a constant image. Reallly throws you off if you’re not used to it, and there’s not much to indicate that you’re blasting away at 10 FPS, I have many inadvertent shots with the G9’s extremely light shutter release. There is a bit of a stutter if you’re shooting a fast moving subject and AF is trying to catch up.

What do you mean by "constant image"? At 10fps using electronic shutter on the G9 you get pretty significant blackout between frames and the EVF resolution drop massively. It's only in SH1/SH2 modes that you get the benefit of no blackout and full resolution (which is kind of counter-intuitive).

 

[kinlau]

What do you mean by "constant image"? At 10fps using electronic shutter on the G9 you get pretty significant blackout between frames and the EVF resolution drop massively. It's only in SH1/SH2 modes that you get the benefit of no blackout and full resolution (which is kind of counter-intuitive).

In AFF or AFC only, not in AFS according to the manual. My camera is in for repairs so this is by my memory only.

 

[whumber]

In AFF or AFC only, not in AFS according to the manual. My camera is in for repairs so this is by my memory only.

Ah ok, I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Yeah, shooting in AF-S at the H setting with e-shutter you get the "no blackout" slideshow effect which I find to be much worse than having blackout.

 

[Ziggy]

AFC at 20 fps uses electronic shutter and has no blackout but AFC at 9, 7 and 2 fps do as they use mechanical shutter.
There's no Live View at 20 fps - I think you see the image just taken.
20 fps can give you serious rolling shutter effects.
The EVF can refresh at 60 or 120 fps.

 

[Iansky]

Another good thing about the G9 is the ability to set EVF refresh rate to 120fps and this does help.
I have used the G9+100-400mm for both truck/car racing as well as airshow work and tried the "Tracking setting" but have given up on that as it is a nightmare if you lose focus lock trying to reset to capture it again so I use one of the following settings - large centre spot that is easy to keep on the subject or using Custom Multi adjusted to a pattern that meets my requirements (this works better for aerial work and possibly BIF where there are fewer obstructions to conflict) - I have not noticed blackout with the faster refresh rate.
I do use mechanical shutter to avoid machine gunning and shooting too many images and I am using back button focus that I personally prefer and in turn prevents me falling foul of the super sensitive shutter button.
I am still getting used to the camera and loving it ( it is a nice size/weight after lugging around my bigger heavier Nikons).
Below are a few examples of "action" images with the G9+100-400mm combo.

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[Ziggy]

I am currently using a G85 with a Pana 100-400 for in-flight photography and the thing I find most frustrating is trying to track a bird in flight when the auto-preview of the image just taken interferes with watching what the bird is doing. This is no different to the 'mirror up' time on a DSLR.

I understand the G9 has no-blackout continuous shooting and this seems appealing. But comments on the internet seem to conflate different things which ends up with me confused. So my understanding is that there are 3 things that affect your ability to see the bird the full time it is in flight:
1- refresh rate of the EVF. There is nothing really can be done with this so I would have to live with it
2 - the shutter mechanism creating a blackout. This is not an issue if you use electronic shutter
3- the dreaded auto-preview of the photo you have just taken

To me, the ideal situation would be that shooting without blackout means you are shooting 20 frames per second and you would see the bird in the frame just as if you were shooting video, with absolutely nothing to interfere with being able to see what the bird is doing and make sure it is still in the centre of the frame. This means no auto preview of the shot just taken and no shutter actuation. I guess limitations from refresh rate is something you have to live with.

Unfortunately many reviews seem to be done by people who rarely shoot action photography so IMO their comments are not really in the context of maximising the hit rate and are at the level of 'oh, that's nice'. So after reading several threads on different fora, I have come to the conclusion that in electronic shutter mode, you get the get auto preview of each shot. And that in 6k mode you get the image preview of the first shot in a burst but not for subsequent shots.

Am I correct in this? Does it depend on frame rate and normal vs 6K? There seem to be so many caveats I want to make sure that if I go for the G9 I am getting what I am expecting.

I stepped up from the G85 to the G9 for BIF. The advantages for me were the 6K photo modes and the larger sensor. The photo modes use video shooting and what you see is what you get. But the AF can be slow to change.
I've had some great results with Preburst which are unachievable with other cameras outside of Oly Procapture. But I don't see any significant improvement in AFC performance over the G85. That's detailed in the thread G9 with birds. There are two circumstances in which the AF regularly fails.
For a BiFfer starting out I wouldn't recommend the G9. The keeper rate is too low.

 

[ToxicTabasco]

I just tested the G9 with Medium burst, and Preburst High, and there is no blackout in Manual focus. None. But that's through the EVF with Backbutton focus. I'd never shoot burst via the live view. AFC will have blackout. The faster you go in burst, the more flashy it gets. Also the buffer fills up pretty fast on super high speed no If you have seizure disorder, it will not be a problem.

 

[Ziggy]

Good luck with MF on BIF.

 

[Mikehit]

Thank you all for your comments. I think I am understanding what is going on.

AFC at 20 fps uses electronic shutter and has no blackout but AFC at 9, 7 and 2 fps do as they use mechanical shutter.
There's no Live View at 20 fps - I think you see the image just taken.

I don't know if I misunderstood your comment but when you say 'I think you see the image just taken' does this mean that when it is ripping along at 20fps, after each of those 20 fps you see in the EVF the image just taken? If so that to me would be 'blackout' in that it is interfering with you seeing the subject and what it is doing.

Maybe it is a terminology thing...

 

[Mikehit]

... there is no blackout in Manual focus. None. But that's through the EVF with Backbutton focus.

Why would you use backbutton focus in manual focus?

 

[ToxicTabasco]

Why would you use backbutton focus in manual focus?

Because that's how back button AF works,... in Manual focus mode.
With Manual focus, I can simply press the back button to lock focus automatically using single point with faster speed and accuracy than with tracking focus in AFC mode or AFF.

And with G9 it allows RAW files for Preburst shooting.

This also allows me to switch focus instantly when needed.

 

[whumber]

I just tested the G9 with Medium burst, and Preburst High, and there is no blackout in Manual focus. None. But that's through the EVF with Backbutton focus. I'd never shoot burst via the live view. AFC will have blackout. The faster you go in burst, the more flashy it gets. Also the buffer fills up pretty fast on super high speed no If you have seizure disorder, it will not be a problem.

When you say Medium burst you mean M for "Burst Shot Setting"? I'm testing it right now with electronic shutter and manual focus and there's definitely a blackout. If by Preburst High you mean SH2 PRE then that should definitely not have any blackout.

 

[Mikehit]

Because that's how back button AF works,... in Manual focus mode.
With Manual focus, I can simply press the back button to lock focus automatically using single point with faster speed and accuracy than with tracking focus in AFC mode or AFF.

And with G9 it allows RAW files for Preburst shooting.

This also allows me to switch focus instantly when needed.

Thanks for the explanation - I never thought of it in those terms.

 

[ToxicTabasco]

When you say Medium burst you mean M for "Burst Shot Setting"? I'm testing it right now with electronic shutter and manual focus and there's definitely a blackout. If by Preburst High you mean SH2 PRE then that should definitely not have any blackout.

Should be in Manual focus mode, with any of the burst modes in mechanical shutter. There should be no blackout. The only time I see the blackout is with AFC and AFF modes.

 

[Ziggy]

Thank you all for your comments. I think I am understanding what is going on.


I don't know if I misunderstood your comment but when you say 'I think you see the image just taken' does this mean that when it is ripping along at 20fps, after each of those 20 fps you see in the EVF the image just taken?

Yes.
Are you saying that you can at that speed register and respond to differences between frames 1/20s apart?

I cull through endless bursts of BIF at 9 fps and that speed shows useful and material differences from frame to frame in the subject. 20 fps is just full of redundancy.

 

[Iansky]

Not used electronic shutter / high speed burst as I see no need for it for what I shoot. I use a D500 as well for BIF / aircraft / car racing shots and even though it can shoot at 10fps I tend to find that 3/4 frames covers what I need.
I do use the G9 solely in mechanical shutter and slow continuous so I can still get 3/4 frames when I want on that super sensitive shutter and also back button focus and it works for me, I have not tried it for BIF yet and feel a little apprehensive about doing so.
I have already given up on AFC Tracking on the G9 and I now use either large centre spot (depending on subject size) or a modified custom focus area - alas the claims from Panasonic about the G9 and reviews that state - "Both the Sony A9 and the Panasonic G9 have class-leading frame rates of 20fps, all while maintaining full autofocus and shooting at full resolution. Both also manage to do this without any viewfinder blackout", are not true and Panasonic needs to address the tracking system to make it viable.

 

[whumber]

Should be in Manual focus mode, with any of the burst modes in mechanical shutter. There should be no blackout. The only time I see the blackout is with AFC and AFF modes.

I'm not sure what to say, there's definitely blackout in those configurations. With mechanical shutter there's no way you could not have blackout without going into the painfully slow slideshow mode type of display that Olympus and Sony used to do. Are you sure you're actually shooting in M burst and not shooting in SH1?

 

[whumber]

I have already given up on AFC Tracking on the G9 and I now use either large centre spot (depending on subject size) or a modified custom focus area - alas the claims from Panasonic about the G9 and reviews that state - "Both the Sony A9 and the Panasonic G9 have class-leading frame rates of 20fps, all while maintaining full autofocus and shooting at full resolution. Both also manage to do this without any viewfinder blackout", are not true and Panasonic needs to address the tracking system to make it viable.

I actually find the tracking to be pretty good on the G9, I don't think the A9 is any better in that regard. The AF-C on the A9, especially at 20 fps, is much better though. The G9 seems to do very well with targets that move at a constant speed, especially so at 20 fps, but doesn't handle accelerating subjects particularly well compared to the competition.