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Panasonic CM1 Smartphone

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by GeBathan, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. GeBathan

    GeBathan Mu-43 Top Veteran

    714
    Dec 11, 2012
    Los Angeles CA
    Gerard
    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/11001884@N07/15226654136" title="Screen-Shot-2014-09-15-at-12.57.50-PM by Ge Bathan, on Flickr">"800" height="437" alt="Screen-Shot-2014-09-15-at-12.57.50-PM"></a>
     
  2. Aushiker

    Aushiker Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 12, 2014
    Fremantle, Western Australia
    Andrew
    DPReview have some information on it as well ...

    They are pretty positive ...



    Will be interesting to see how it pans out on the other aspects of being a phone.

    Andrew
     
  3. GeBathan

    GeBathan Mu-43 Top Veteran

    714
    Dec 11, 2012
    Los Angeles CA
    Gerard
    I think they put more focus at being a camera first and phone second. But seeing that its specs is on par with the new smartphones, I wouldn't worry about it. Screen size is not good enough for me, I'm a video streamer type so a big screen will do me well
     
  4. xdayv

    xdayv Color Blind

    Aug 26, 2011
    Tacloban City, Philippines
    Dave
    Thanks for the links. Looks nice!
     
  5. Narnian

    Narnian Nobody in particular ...

    Aug 6, 2010
    Midlothian, VA
    Richard Elliott
    I wonder if this could be a test camera for switching the user interface to Android for all cameras ...
     
  6. eljay

    eljay Mu-43 Regular

    113
    Jul 8, 2013
    So, this is basically a very thin camera with smartphone features. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Aushiker

    Aushiker Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 12, 2014
    Fremantle, Western Australia
    Andrew
    • Like Like x 2
  8. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    I'm intrigued, might even bite if it wasn't for the price.
     
  9. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    For me, it all depends on what Verizon does. It's the only carrier that gets reasonably full coverage were I live. If it becomes a serious option, I'd be very interested.
     
  10. raschmidt

    raschmidt Mu-43 Regular

    37
    Nov 28, 2014
    Chengdu, China
    Rob
    I was excited until I saw the price. I like the idea of using my phone as a camera but it usually devastates your battery life, and its still going to be very limited versus something like an RX-100. I hope they continue to improve on these, my coworker had a Nokia 808 and a Lumia 1020, the 1020 felt like a big step backwards so Id like to see the CM1 do well, but I would also like to see a camera/phone with good battery life.
     
  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I also really like the idea of the CM1, but wish it wasn't so expensive. I can see a real use for a hybrid device like this that takes good photos and is combined with your phone. With an M4/3 camera, on the other hand, I simply don't see a justification for something like the RX100 that is only tenuously pants-pocketable (if you want to look a little weird and have an awkward time taking it out), given that I still need to carry my phone in my other pocket. If I have a jacket or coat or bag, I'll just take my GX1 and enjoy nicer pictures than are possible with the RX100.

    I do wish that Microsoft would hurry up and announce a proper successor to the Lumia 1020 with a faster processor. The shot-to-shot times were the only really big let-down on that camera. A RAW-shooting 41MP Lumia 1030 with a Snapdragon 80x processor (and an MicroSD card slot, please!) would be a pretty difficult thing for me to resist.
     
  12. teddoman

    teddoman Mu-43 Regular

    191
    Mar 22, 2013
    nyc
    Anyone considering the CM1? It just became available in the US and it's now upgradeable to Android Lollipop.

    It's kind of a fit for me, really. I'm not picky about my phone as long as it's decent. I am picky about my camera, though.
     
  13. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I just see it as a really compromised $1000 camera and a really compromised $1000 phone. It's 2-3x as thick as a regular premium phone. The camera isn't going to hold a candle to a GM1 and a 14mm f2.5 or a Nikon CoolPix A and those cost maybe half what this does. You are probably going to destroy the device with lint or when the lens gets activated by a pocket bump.

    It's a pipe dream, really. You aren't going to get a real premium camera in a phone without making the phone suck as a phone and handicapping the camera too much so it kind of fits in a phone. I would just be happy with the kind of daylight and lower-res indoor shots that regular phones can do well and not try to push the all-in-one mantra too far.
     
  14. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I really want to like this, but I wish it wasn't so expensive. And the trouble is, even the camera is a bit compromised because of the lack of image stabilization. As a result, if you aren't photographing movement, you'll end up with slightly worse quality low-light shots that something like the Lumia 1020 that has a smaller sensor that's half the size (i.e. still pretty darn big!), but has effective OIS to counteract it.

    The size of the phone doesn't bother me. It's by far the thinnest large sensor camera you will find anywhere, so that's not a big deal. 21mm at its bulgiest part easily fits in a pocket - that's half the thickness of an RX100 III.

    Sadly though, I think I will probably take a wait and see approach to what Microsoft is coming out with next. Leaked images of their next generation flagships has a camera bulge, so I'm holding out hope that they might still end up with a 2/3" sensor (albeit "only" with 20MP). Even a 1/1.7" would be nice, and having the reduced resolution and faster processing will all them to do all the wonderful computational photography stuff that other modern smartphones do.
     
  15. teddoman

    teddoman Mu-43 Regular

    191
    Mar 22, 2013
    nyc
    I just find that I don't bring my compact cameras out because there are lots of situations where I tell myself I won't end up using it, and I don't want the inconvenience of the extra bulge in my pocket. So I sold my Fuji X20 and Ricoh GR, which were otherwise great cameras.

    I'm not sure I can go back to 1/1.7" sensors. I had an LX7 and loved it at the time but eventually decided I loved IQ too much to be satisfied with a 1/1.7" sensor. Sensors of that size pretty much fall apart after ISO 400 and you pretty much have to shoot at base ISO. A 2/3" sensor might be enough for a cell phone, given how low our expectations for cell phone sensors are. But for me, even a 1" sensor is too little. It's just that 1" appears to be the largest sensor that will fit inside a cell phone. So if that's max IQ for a cell phone, then at least I can be happy knowing that I couldn't get any better cell IQ.

    OIS isn't really an issue for me. I used to use a D7000 with an unstabilized 85mm at f/1.4. It's a nice feature when I have it, but it's a lot more important to me to have a bigger sensor. You can make up for lack of OIS with good technique, but you can't make up for a small sensor.

    There's a lens cap solution out there for the CM1 that I've seen. If I get one, I'll probably see if I can fabricate my own. If not, I'll just buy the one that's available.
     
  16. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I find that my biggest peeve with small sensor cameras isn't necessarily the noise or dynamic range - I can work around that. It's the ham-handed image processing. Without fail, they always insist on too much noise reduction, and a dose of nasty large-radius sharpening afterwards. As long as a small sensor shoots RAW, I'm not going to say I'm "happy" with it, but it removes the biggest disadvantage, which is the rampant destruction of detail. I'm okay with a little bit of noise, especially since chroma noise is the most distracting and by far the easiest to remove with little consequence. Luminance noise I typically prefer to leave untouched, and then sharpen/high pass/clarity as needed to bring out detail.

    And I disagree that good technique can make up for OIS, because with good technique, the OIS becomes that much more effective. Even the steadiest hand around will still get 1-2 stops of improvement from image stabilization. In a lot of cases, those 1-2 stops do make up for the small sensor in a very real, practical sense, because you've reduced your ISO commensurately. I don't do a lot of action photography or low-light social shooting, so that's also my use case speaking. And when it's not low light, even cell phones take decent pics in broad daylight, assuming they've got a decent lens and decent image processing or RAW available.
     
  17. Serhan

    Serhan Mu-43 Top Veteran

    533
    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    • Like Like x 1
  18. teddoman

    teddoman Mu-43 Regular

    191
    Mar 22, 2013
    nyc
    Yeah, I suppose you can treat the OIS as lower ISO if you actually reduce your shutter speed on all shots. In practice, for me, I have never reduced my shutter speeds on a default basis when using OIS. Maybe deep down I distrust the OIS :) But I've never had a body with IBIS so it's hard to change your default behavior when you are only using an OIS lens temporarily.

    Looks like the CM1 is now backordered at Amazon until next week. Decisions decisions!
     
  19. teddoman

    teddoman Mu-43 Regular

    191
    Mar 22, 2013
    nyc
    Well, I decided to go ahead and buy a CM1! I have to say, it sure is a lovely well designed cameraphone. They did as good as job as they could while obeying the laws of physics :)