Over-processing? Sometimes it's hard to tell

heli-mech

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Usually unless going for a certain look I always think "less is more". Keep adjustments small and simple to start with until you are comfortable what each does to every part of the image. You also should view your changes at the resolution you intend them to be viewed at. Sometimes a full size "over processed" image looks great once reduced to 1/4 size, conversely a well processed full size image can occasionally look flat and dull once reduced.

There are a ton of tutorials on various aspects of post processing on the internet (sharpening, contrast, levels, tone curves, color etc) I suggest reading up on what you are actually doing when you make these adjustments. Understanding this will help you steer away from destructive adjustments. This site is not a bad place to start Photo Editing Tutorials
 

GaryAyala

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What skill level would you place yourself? What formal and informal photographic training have you received?

A very famous photographer, Henri Cartier-Bresson stated "Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." In this digital age, he'd probably say your first "100,000" photographs are your worst. Just something to think about.

Typically, one has to know the rules, before they can successfully break the rules.

Gary
 

littleMT

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Typically, one has to know the rules, before they can successfully break the rules.

Gary

I'll tell you this, I have a rule for photography, and even things in life. Short of breaking the law, my rule is, I don't go by anybodys manmade rules, including photography, if my images suck as a result, so be it.


I was recruited by a local car club once, and they gave me a list of rules one had to adhere to, to be a member, I told them to go pound sand, I didn't need them or their rules.


I studied classical guitar at Pimentel guitars under one of the late Lorenzo Pimentels sons, and he was very strict, as classical is strict and has many 'rules'....even down to how you care for your nails. Did this for awhile then dumped them also, bought a steel body Dobro and a slide, and play some delta blues, and don't follow no rules.

back to photography, to me, I simply frame a shot in my lcd, if it looks okay, then click, without any regard for anybodys compositional rules.

Though I clearly understand you are a very experienced and accomplished photog that I don't hold a candle to, but none the less, rules are not for me, period.

I don't even want to know the rules daddy-o, I don't dig that word at all.
 

heli-mech

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I'll tell you this, I have a rule for photography, and even things in life. Short of breaking the law, my rule is, I don't go by anybodys manmade rules, including photography, if my images suck as a result, so be it.


I was recruited by a local car club once, and they gave me a list of rules one had to adhere to, to be a member, I told them to go pound sand, I didn't need them or their rules.


I studied classical guitar at Pimentel guitars under one of the late Lorenzo Pimentels sons, and he was very strict, as classical is strict and has many 'rules'....even down to how you care for your nails. Did this for awhile then dumped them also, bought a steel body Dobro and a slide, and play some delta blues, and don't follow no rules.

back to photography, to me, I simply frame a shot in my lcd, if it looks okay, then click, without any regard for anybodys compositional rules.

Though I clearly understand you are a very experienced and accomplished photog that I don't hold a candle to, but none the less, rules are not for me, period.

I don't even want to know the rules daddy-o, I don't dig that word at all.
This approach is generally only successful for a person that has a natural talent for something, and the funny thing is they usually are "following the rules" they just don't know it because it comes natural. Someone like me who is highly non-artistic needs some of those rules as a guideline. Again generally speaking starting off with knowing the rules (whether you follow them or not) will usually lead to more success than just doing your own thing.
 

GaryAyala

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I'll tell you this, I have a rule for photography, and even things in life. Short of breaking the law, my rule is, I don't go by anybodys manmade rules, including photography, if my images suck as a result, so be it.


I was recruited by a local car club once, and they gave me a list of rules one had to adhere to, to be a member, I told them to go pound sand, I didn't need them or their rules.


I studied classical guitar at Pimentel guitars under one of the late Lorenzo Pimentels sons, and he was very strict, as classical is strict and has many 'rules'....even down to how you care for your nails. Did this for awhile then dumped them also, bought a steel body Dobro and a slide, and play some delta blues, and don't follow no rules.

back to photography, to me, I simply frame a shot in my lcd, if it looks okay, then click, without any regard for anybodys compositional rules.

Though I clearly understand you are a very experienced and accomplished photog that I don't hold a candle to, but none the less, rules are not for me, period.

I don't even want to know the rules daddy-o, I don't dig that word at all.
You noted that I am an "experienced and accomplished photog", whatever accomplishments I have attained has been through understanding 'the rules'.

For me, knowing the rules and giving thought to why the rules exist ... giving thought to when and why I should break them ... is a far better course than random action or blind action. For me, it's all about thinking. Thinking about the image, the story I desire my image to convey and how best to attain my final image.

Gary
 

littleMT

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This approach is generally only successful for a person that has a natural talent for something, and the funny thing is they usually are "following the rules" they just don't know it because it comes natural. Someone like me who is highly non-artistic needs some of those rules as a guideline. Again generally speaking starting off with knowing the rules (whether you follow them or not) will usually lead to more success than just doing your own thing.

I then choose to be 'less successful' doing my own thing.

But this is just me. Learning full manual control and how ISO/Shutter speed/Aperature work hand in hand was a chore for me, then sombody is going to slap some rules on how I shoot? Nope, not for me.

I would love hanging out with anybody here and snap images, but the minute the conversation turned to 'rule of lines', 'rule of 3rds' ect, I would walk off and continue taking images.

Though you cats are correct, one should learn all they can, including all the rules, just not me, and I might be the only one that feels this way, but I have always marched to the beat of a different drum daddy-o.

You don't put rules on the hepkitty.

I will be in Vegas at the Viva Rockabilly event in a few weeks, and those cats know, you don't put rules on the hepkitty.:drinks:
 

kevinparis

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Lucille

you may class yourself as someone who ignores 'rules'....but the fact you specify 'delta blues' kinda means you are working within a certain commonly agreed framework in terms of chord progressions, scales, rhythms, and even instrumentation.

You just replaced the classical set of rules with a slightly looser set

rigid rules do stifle creativity, but they do have their place in society, but any creative enterprise, there is always some sort of framework that you work within, and often push against.... thats where the fun is

K
 

littleMT

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You noted that I am an "experienced and accomplished photog", whatever accomplishments I have attained has been through understanding 'the rules'.

For me, knowing the rules and and giving thought to why the rules exist ... giving thought to when and why I should break them ... is a far better course than random action or blind action. For me, it's all about thinking. Thinking about the image, the story I desire my image to convey and how best to attain my final image.

Gary
I think clearly about my images and what story I want them to convey, what I want to emphasize, and even what shadows I want, I like me some shadows, but my thought process is never about any rules of composition.

As I thought about this shot while looking at it through the LCD and seeing what my human eye saw, and paid no regard for any rules.

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)



I was just out having fun, that to me, is what its all about, having fun and personal enjoyment as I realize I will never make money doing this.

If I met with a group of folks from here and we were doing nightshots such as the above I would be very passionate about it, and would have many tips on how to get these long shutter speed light paintings to work, rules would never be spoken from me.

Because I don't pay attention to rules does not mean I don't think about my images.
 

m1pui

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Because I don't pay attention to rules does not mean I don't think about my images.
And just because you think you don't pay attention to the rules, doesn't mean you don't sometimes incorporate them in what you shoot.

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
Some definite nods to the rule of thirds there.

Perhaps it's the calling it a "rule" that is the problem.
 

littleMT

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And just because you think you don't pay attention to the rules, doesn't mean you don't sometimes incorporate them in what you shoot.



Some definite nods to the rule of thirds there.

Perhaps it's the calling it a "rule" that is the problem.

This is true my good man, but I give them no thought or regard while shooting, if the image looks good to me in the LCD, then click.
 

littleMT

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Lucille

you may class yourself as someone who ignores 'rules'....but the fact you specify 'delta blues' kinda means you are working within a certain commonly agreed framework in terms of chord progressions, scales, rhythms, and even instrumentation.

You just replaced the classical set of rules with a slightly looser set

rigid rules do stifle creativity, but they do have their place in society, but any creative enterprise, there is always some sort of framework that you work within, and often push against.... thats where the fun is

K

At Pimentel guitars the instruction was about many rules, how to sit, how to breather, how to hold the guitar, how to rest, and they were very strict.

All that went out the window with the dobro, and playing became fun.
 

kevinparis

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fully understand that... but the fact you are playing 'delta blues' and going to a 'rockabilly' event in vegas says to me you are following 'rules'.... its actually not a bad thing to enjoy what you do... but don't delude yourself tht you have no rules

do love your car pics... but dont pretend you just point the lens and click... you are doing much more than that and very well

peace

K
 

littleMT

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fully understand that... but the fact you are playing 'delta blues' and going to a 'rockabilly' event in vegas says to me you are following 'rules'.... its actually not a bad thing to enjoy what you do... but don't delude yourself tht you have no rules

do love your car pics... but dont pretend you just point the lens and click... you are doing much more than that and very well

peace

K
No, I just point my lens, make sure it looks good in the lcd, and then click.

And what happens in Vegas...heh, stays in Vegas......
 

EasyEd

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Hey All,

Nice car images there hepkitty! You and your car images remind me of Miss Ruby Ann with Ike and the Capers at this Youtube ...

search on: v=0l33nG26TLU

I think people often subconsciously follow "rules" as "rules" are common based on what looks good to people to start with.

-Ed-
 

littleMT

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Miss Ruby Ann really jumps daddy-o!

That scene, that video, that is my life.... I was born in the wrong era...
 

hazwing

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Sounds like some one has issues with authoratty! (authoratty said in the intonations of eric cartman - [south park reference for gen Y'ers])

Getting back to the OP. Some images may arguably be slightly over processed, but I don't feel it is too much so. No nuclear green foliage. If that is the look you are after, and you are happy with it... stick with it. However, I do have to say quite a few of the photos lack an interesting subject or composition. That is what I would work on more.

And to be honest, a lot of the images I take are probably uninteresting as well, but I try not to post so many of them (though some may slip through) :)
 

Blastop

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I am completely new to photography beyond an iPhone, so I recognize I have a WHILE to go before my skills are halfway decent.

My eyes like the images, which of course, is important... BUT... I would also like them to appeal to a broader audience. It's easy to cross a line into delusion, which I'd like to avoid.
I snipped this quote a bit, apologies.



Start by not processing images automatically. Try to achieve your desired look by using settings on your camera, particularly learning the interplay of the different parts of exposure - ISO, aperture , shutter speed. Use a single focal length for a week, or until you have a sense of what it will capture without needing to look through your camera.

Be harsh and critical when importing your images. Look at everything you've shot in the day, and set aside only those that you really connect with. Archive or delete the rest. Study your successes, and consider what makes them work, or what didn't on the images you threw away. Only post-process your favorite images, and do it individually.

Of course, producing perfect images that will impress and move any viewer is not the only goal! Sometimes your favorite photos won't seem as good to someone who doesn't know the subject, and sometimes you'll just be shooting to practice techniques or test hardware. For now, shoot first, question your framing, exposure, subject later, don't get lost in self-doubt. And always, always, permit yourself to love a photo you've taken, even if nobody else agrees with you :)
 

GFFPhoto

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These are related, so I'll attempt to answer both at a time. Yes, I am aiming for my photos to have "a certain look", which is close to what kevinparis is describing: old-ish, faded print.
You have the soft contrast right, but some of your shots are pretty saturated. Try de-saturating a bit more and warm up the WB. Kodak films were very warm (and that is probably what those old prints in the shoebox came from). That might help get closer to the look you are aiming for. Also digital is sharper than that old film look, so don't sharpen and maybe use NR to soften the edges.
 

NRV

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Thanks, everyone for the overwhelming amount of replies and advice. Good stuff.

Lens-wise, I'm currently using a Panasonic 20 and Olympus 40-150.

I do like the longer range the O40-150 offers and it's got a certain softness I enjoy. But its size makes it impractical at times... especially if I want to carry the camera with me EVERYWHERE, so I can take as many pictures as possible and improve.

The P20 is very practical in terms of size, but I'm slightly underwhelmed by the AF speed. Seems to take some noisier pictures at times, too... (but that's more likely my own fault - ?).

Would you recommend I get something fixed that offers a more "normal" focal length coupled with better performance? Something like the PL25 or maybe the Sigma 30 (which I had for a brief moment, then sold - but I kind of miss)?

Or should I stick to my current ones for now?

Granted, I know a better lens won't make anyone a better photographer, but it's worth asking.
 

EasyEd

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Hey All,

Love it! LOL I never in my life been called daddy-o. Not sure what to think... That said...

Rockabilly and Ruby Ann are favorites of mine along with multiple kinds of music (country/delta blues, cowboy, country and red dirt). I play a Gretsch and my mom was the first to rub wildroot in my hair an comb it back sayin this what you (meaning me) should do. I didn't keep that look but maybe I should return to it - mom is always right you know. Will have to post more rockabilly in the what ya listening to thread...


Anyway getting to the original post I can see the "look" you may be after. The camera will get you the content but PP will get you the look unless a film simulation happens to be perfect.

As for what lens I think it depends on what you like to shoot. In my case having a new xe-1 I've noticed I am about 3/4ths of the time at or near 18 or 55 (the limits of the kit zoom) and only about 25% of the time in between. I know I am either typically wide or want to isolate something at a distance. Tells me a lot about what I could get by with.

Maybe pickup a standard zoom and see where you want to be.

One side says adapt the lens to you meaning use a zoom or know what your "focal lengths" are. The other side says you adapt to what you got. Neither is absolutely right - you decide.

-Ed-
 

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