C&C Over-processed?

NACEOD

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
75
Location
Mesa Az
Real Name
Rob
I've been using DXO PhotoLab 4 and Deep Prime Noise Reduction for the last couple months to get better hockey pictures. Up til now I mostly shot JPEG's with simple edits using Workspace or Darktable. Since January I've been shooting RAW and processing with Deep Prime. Here are a couple typical shots from my son's last game.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you're willing to share on if I'm getting a good balance of processing and avoiding overprocessing.

E-M1 with 50-200 SWD, ISO 8000, f3.5, 1/1000. Link to RAW file: 901

P3213901_DxO.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)



E-M1 with Sigma 30mm f2.8 EX DN, ISO 6400, f2.8, 1/1250. Link to RAW file: 793

P3213793_DxO.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

793
 
Last edited:

Kae1

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
406
Real Name
Ken
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you're willing to share on if I'm getting a good balance of processing and avoiding overprocessing.

Whilst I am not an expert on processing I know what I like, and in my opinion I think you've got a good balance in place.

It's only in the last few months that I've even noticed blown highlights and learned how difficult it is to pull back them back. You've got the ice, white helmets and white kit to cope with plus presumably glaring reflections from the stadium's lights too. I imagine with such an expanse of white it will be incredibly challenging. However you've achieved at least "50 shades of white" and achieved natural looking colours too and I don't feel it looks over-processed.

I'm sorry but I've got nothing to suggest but continue what you're doing. :thumbsup:
 

demiro

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
3,381
Location
northeast US
I agree with Kae1. Those shots look pretty darn good. I've shot ice skating, though not hockey. Usually very tough to balance everything. @NACEOD you've done very well to my eye.
 

BosseBe

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
4,449
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Real Name
Bo
@RichardC is right you have only provided the sidecar file, that file contains all the corrections made to the image file by DxO and is really useless without the image (Raw/ORF) file.
That said I think your edits are good, I agree with what has been said before.
Since it looks so good to me I would guess that you have calibrated your monitor or have a monitor that shows true colours.
(Calibration can be very important to get true colours, specially since the colour of the monitor shifts with time.)
 

PakkyT

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,796
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Here are a couple typical shots from my son's last game.

Look great to me.

My boys are now aged out of youth hockey, so I know the challenges of shooting hockey over the years in rinks with terrible lighting, badly scratched glass, safety netting blocking views, etc. I first started to shoot hockey with an Olympus C-770UZ (a P&S super zoom) and a basic hot shoe flash believe it or not. Some of them were not terrible. :roflmao:

When I got my E-520, the ISO range on that model was so bad (800 was tolerable and 1600 was basically unusable) I shot most of the games on the glass with a Sigma 30/1.4 and did a lot of cropping in post. There were not many choices back then for fast glass in longer focal lengths, at least not that could afford. I had the ZD 50-200mm but on the E-520 is was too slow even at f2.8. It was only after I finally got my E-M1.1 that I started to use the 50-200mm for hockey again towards the ends of their youth careers.

Keep up the good work!
 

scb

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
132
Location
North Ridgeville, OH
Real Name
Steve
I think a lot of us would make some adjustments such as maybe a little brighter, perhaps a bit more saturation, maybe a tad more contrast BUT as to whether the image appears over processed, the answer is a definite "no". I think you're being a little conservative if you want the images to have a little more "pop" but they're your images and they should be what you want them to be!! I really like the composition on the first shot and to me it's a real hockey action shot. Keep up the good work!
 

PakkyT

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,796
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Not the OP of course, but my own experience with making hockey pictures a "little brighter" is that you are fighting two extremes with hockey. A white ice and lots of black equipments such pants, helmets, skates, the puck, etc. In addition uniforms are also often dark colored. Couple that with typical high ISO shooting and one quickly finds that trying to brighten an image a "little" more often starts to bring out the noise much too fast while blowing out the ice and the boards.. Since hockey photography is more about the action than the details shown on a uniform or other dark areas, it is often best to just let the blacks "crush", don't blow out the ice, and let darker details just be where ever they are.
 

NACEOD

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
75
Location
Mesa Az
Real Name
Rob
They look good on my monitor. Maybe saturation could be pushed a little? The links to the raw files appear to be dxo or dxo sidecar files with .dop extensions.
Thank you. I fixed the links to the RAW files.

I'm still working on the color adjustments. The global saturation adjustment throws off the brighter colors when the dark colors start to match the actual uniform colors. I'm starting to dig into the individual color channel adjustments next.
 

NACEOD

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
75
Location
Mesa Az
Real Name
Rob
@RichardC is right you have only provided the sidecar file, that file contains all the corrections made to the image file by DxO and is really useless without the image (Raw/ORF) file.
That said I think your edits are good, I agree with what has been said before.
Since it looks so good to me I would guess that you have calibrated your monitor or have a monitor that shows true colours.
(Calibration can be very important to get true colours, specially since the colour of the monitor shifts with time.)
In this case the calibration is old fashioned blind luck. I'm using my wife's old monitor and have only used the Windows calibration tools. A new monitor and calibration set are on the list. A very long list...
 

Cederic

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
657
Location
Nottingham
maybe a tad more contrast

That was my immediate thought. The images look a bit flat, possibly just due to the amount of ice in shot, so while I'm not sure sharpening would help a little contrast might help them pop a little.

That will also make the colours feel a tiny bit more saturated without making them garish, which should give a nice effect.

I find a lot of photographs have tremendous visual impact at first glance but look over-processed after that initial sight of them. The subject matter here actually gives you far more leeway on that, so experiment with turning up the dials a little more and see if it gives more than the players themselves a sense of being there.

However, having said all that, I've had a play in Lightroom and I'm not producing anything that's better than your edit above, and your colours are brighter too.

I found that dropping the contrast then boosting the highlights/whites to (more than) compensate gave that improved contrast without killing the dark colours, adding some saturation got the colours near to yours and adding clarity helped a little with pop.

The one change that I would suggest to you: Change the colour temperature from 4250 to 4100. It doesn't sound like a large change but it takes the yellow tinge out of the ice.

If you have a tool with masking, taking some saturation out of just the yellow base of the outer wall would strengthen the image - at the moment it's a bit distracting in the top photo. You can't just desaturate yellows though as that breaks the attacking player's socks :)
 

NACEOD

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
75
Location
Mesa Az
Real Name
Rob
@PakkyT I had the same kind of progression. Started with a point and shoot, switched to a Canon T2 with 50/1.8, 50D with 70-210 3.5-4.5 and many adapted M42 and other manual focus lenses. Got lucky some times but lots of frustration. I got a used M1 with a broken rear dial for $200 to try out MFT 4 years ago and love it. I ended up getting a 50-200 SWD after seeing some of your posts mentioning you used it for sports.

Your second post is the perfect description of chasing adjustments in ice hockey photos. Adjust one thing and it changes 2 or 3 other that now need adjusting and down the rabbit hole you go.

My youngest is the only one left in sports. His older brother and sister are off in college. It went by too fast.
 

Cederic

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
657
Location
Nottingham
Playing. Have you thought of trying it in B&W?

P3213901.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 

Latest threads

Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Forum GIFs powered by GIPHY: https://giphy.com/
Copyright © Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom