Once the cash register closes, you own it...

Mack

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...and even if you don't have it in your hands for months.

I've heard this banter having worked in retail and issues with warranties later.

Example: I decide to buy a new camera system from a NYC major outlet Dec. 1, 2020. Popular item and back-ordered for who knows how long. Given it needs a lens and some other things, I put it on a "Do not ship/bill until all items are in to fulfill the order" which they do. Reasoning was I mistakenly thought the lens warranty would begin on when I finally got the back-ordered gear in a package in my hands, and not when the order was placed.

So a few months later, in March, I get the completed order along with the back-ordered item. Some $6,000 in stuff and now billed as well.

Filling out the online warranty, I noticed the date issue. The order's receipt is stamped Dec. 1 which is the ordered date, yet I get the gear in March. So I have lost 3 months of the 12 month warranty given the pre-order and wait for the back-order to fill without a receipt dated for March (Don't know if they'd do that should I need a warranty 10 months from now?).

More interesting was the new lens in 2020 had a 5-year USA warranty (i.e. Nikon USA back then.) when filled in online for warranty, but that ended in 2021 and now is only one year in USA. So the included back-order now has the one-year warranty paperwork included in the box and no longer has the five-year supplemental warranty paperwork even though it was purchased/dated as being bought in Dec. 2020. Interesting that a back-order wait can shorten a warranty by four years.

Oh well, so much for pre-orders, back-orders, and shortened warranties.
 
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RichardC

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That's something I never considered buying from a bricks and mortar shop, probably because the companies I worked for generated a sales receipt with a date of purchase defined as the day the goods were handed over.

Worth looking at online terms. My customers don't even have a contract until the goods are marked as 'dispatched' by me.
 

PakkyT

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So a few months later, in March, I get the completed order along with the back-ordered item. Some $6,000 in stuff and now billed as well.

I would have filled out the warrantee with the date received and submitted the documentation of date billed as proof. But regardless, check your state's law on implied warranties. More that likely you are covered by that, that your lens will work for a reasonable amount of time, regardless if the failure occurs after the written warranty expires. Also your credit card might feature extending manufacturer's warranties.
 

Mack

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I would have filled out the warrantee with the date received and submitted the documentation of date billed as proof. But regardless, check your state's law on implied warranties. More that likely you are covered by that, that your lens will work for a reasonable amount of time, regardless if the failure occurs after the written warranty expires. Also your credit card might feature extending manufacturer's warranties.

There is a way on the mail order outfit's website called "My Orders" that was created when I began using them. It shows orders by individual years with mine going back to 2011. It shows the "Order Date/Number" as well as the "Shipping Info" and when it arrived in some cases like costlier "Signature Required" ones. Unfortunately, it does not show the serial number in the website "My Orders" details, but it does show the serial on the paper receipt that came in the box.

It might serve useful in case of a warranty issue if asked by the manufacturer. How they handle it is up to them, but I hope they don't take any long back-orders as an excuse to jump a claim. Some poor souls waited almost a year to get the D800/D800E when it appeared and I'd expect them to be more than miffed if their original order's receipt was a means to deny a warranty if it showed up a year (broken) after the order was placed.
 

demiro

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Mack's predicament seems ridiculous, even for the US. I'd be talking to the retailer. If their pre-order system is causing shortened warranties they need to spell that out clearly. I've read plenty of complaints about B&H and Adorama over the years [@Mack is this one of them?], and specifically how they handle pre-orders, but I don't recall hearing this one before.
 

Mack

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Mack's predicament seems ridiculous, even for the US. I'd be talking to the retailer. If their pre-order system is causing shortened warranties they need to spell that out clearly. I've read plenty of complaints about B&H and Adorama over the years [@Mack is this one of them?], and specifically how they handle pre-orders, but I don't recall hearing this one before.

It's the first one mentioned. Only issue may be the receipt when ordered on a back-ordered item that may foul up a warranty, and that may depend more on Nikon than the store. I suppose one could use the bank statement as that is when the payment went through, March in my case with Synchrony Bank who is the provider of the store's Payboo credit card. That store card pays the state's sales tax which amounts to quite a bit on large purchases, almost $600 in my caee.

The catch with that store's card is it must be paid in full by first closing date or it resorts to the full 29% interest rate. Synchrony Bank also pulls a sneaky by not sending out paper statements anymore (Also a Jan. 1 new rule.) so you need to check online or wait for an emailed "green" statement if you signed up for one. The date you get it might be close to the closing/posting date so they might be happy with charging one their 29% rate for being late, but that's the bank and not the retailer. Aside, I believe paying by using Paypal that the store can charge the full purchase to the card immediately (Dec. 1 for me.) even if back-ordered for some reason and not go into pending as with the bank's store card. The store did an initial charge via the Synchrony Bank (Payboo) card, but the bank removed it during the lengthy wait for the back-order to fill and didn't finalize it until the shipment was actually made.

Also, as to Nikon it seems they have shortened up their warranty as of Jan. 1, 2021 in the USA. My old Nikon lenses always had the extra yellow 5-year paperwork (It was 1 year, plus the extra 4 years if registered online.) included in the box, but now the new ones only have one year. Sign of the times I guess.

The S-lens must be new as the firmware for it is the latest, and the firmware in the Z7 II and FTZ adapter were also the newest versions even though Nikon put the firmware update on their website on Feb. 25 for all three. Seems they were updating the firmware in the gear prior to Feb. 25 since I got this stuff early March so it must have been freshly made this year and not sitting on a shelf someplace. I was prepared to do updates to all three, but surprised none needed it. Only good thing about the back-order...maybe. All my Olympus gear seemed to need an update when new, but it likely sat somewhere for a while too and not in high demand.

Oh well. Least the stuff works fine so far. Okay, one issue with a Lexar CFexpress card and their reader (This CFexpress stuff gets HOT!! and it's even on a yellow warning label inside the camera's door.). The Lexar card may have froze the camera up a couple of times nesesating a battery pull/reset. Nikon responded quickly with their approved list of tested CFexpress cards and although the Lexar 128GB was on it, the numbers on the card I have are not on Nikon's approved list (Different 128GB Lexar versions?) so I bought a Sony "Tough G" CFexpress which is on their list and no lock-up yet. Lexar has been mum on the card's mysterious numbers and heat matter even with their 3.1 reader plugged in yet empty.

Now I need to order more Z-mount S-series glass though. Ugh.
 

RichardC

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It is completely ridiculous that the clock starts ticking on a warranty before the goods have even been shipped. Write to the CEO of the item manufacturer and complain bitterly about the behaviour of their dealer.

I am not familiar with US consumer protection. In my country a Small Claims Court judge would throw a retailer's defence straight out if they behaved like that re warranties. When the judge had finished with them, Trading Standards would have them for breakfast.
 

demiro

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I forgot about Payboo, which I have heard some funky stories about. B&H still needs to manage this better. They should be able to provide guidance to their customers.

@Mack good luck going forward. Probably very low risk at the end of the day, as vast majority of gear doesn't require warranty claims, but the hassle factor is way too high for you.
 

Mack

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It is completely ridiculous that the clock starts ticking on a warranty before the goods have even been shipped. Write to the CEO of the item manufacturer and complain bitterly about the behaviour of their dealer.

I am not familiar with US consumer protection. In my country a Small Claims Court judge would throw a retailer's defence straight out if they behaved like that re warranties. When the judge had finished with them, Trading Standards would have them for breakfast.

Agree. I've heard horror stories of people buying new homes with appliances built in and their one-year appliance warranty starts on the closing of the sale, but they are unable to move in due to ongoing construction matters for a few months or whatevers and their warranty is shortened even if they aren't moved in and switched on any appliances. Welcome to USA. If we can find a means to get out of a warranty, we will. (Gawd, passed one refrigerator compressor nightmare made it 1 year 3 months before blowing, and a Mitsubishi big screen TV nightmare. Luckily Mitsubishi got out of the TV game. Who else puts a Reset button the the front of a large TV? Sound, and no pic. Or pic, and no sound. Reset, and pray or call service person again.).
 

Mack

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I forgot about Payboo, which I have heard some funky stories about. B&H still needs to manage this better. They should be able to provide guidance to their customers.

@Mack good luck going forward. Probably very low risk at the end of the day, as vast majority of gear doesn't require warranty claims, but the hassle factor is way too high for you.

I don't expect any issues so far. I suspect what B&H does is to verify the card for the pending sale (Dec.) so I cannot blame them for that. Maybe that Dec. receipt is also used as their future packing slip at the warehouse and also as to what I got in the box. I'd think they'd send a new receipt upon the final charge to the bank and that should become my later (March) receipt. Puzzling part is how the Dec. reciept has the item's serial numbers on it even though they were back-ordered. hmmm..? Must be a recently printed reciept (March) but still with the Dec. date on it though. Where's Columbo?

No problems yet, and I suspect the gear should hold up in first year at least. I could test it with the Lexar CFexpress card matter (Pirated card maybe?), but given it is erratic in the freezing-up part I don't know. If Lexar would respond and say it is a pirated card, I'd go back to B&H and request a warranty or replacement on it since that seems to be Lexar's warranty settlement means. Least I got some time to try and find out if it is a bad card. I've gotten bad cards before, even new, from other manufactures. Sandisk was a really odd warranty one.
 

Bob in Pittsburgh

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I have to think that if you ended up in court in the United States and could prove that you didn't receive the goods until March you would prevail. But if you are in court over the warranty on a camera or lens then you have already lost.
 
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You ticked the box to say "do not ship/bill until all items are in". So you didn't purchase anything until they billed you, up to that point you had only ordered it.

AFAIK most warranties are "X months from date of purchase". So if the retailer told the manufacturer you had purchased something when you had only ordered it then they're in the wrong.

But I'm not a lawyer so don't rely on my advice!
 

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