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On the fence questions

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by LunaBella, Jun 29, 2016.

  1. LunaBella

    LunaBella Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 29, 2016
    Hello, new here but I have a few questions that hopefully you all can help me with.

    First of all, I am a Nikon DSLR user. I have a D750 and a D7100. I am seriously considering selling the D750....most of the type of shooting I do I cannot tell any better image quality vs the D7100, and I like the longer reach of the crop camera.

    On top of that, I am getting tired of lugging around DSLR's and the large lenses whenever I travel. I do plan to keep my D7100 for sports and other things, but want to get lighter/smaller if possible for most of my shooting.

    I am thinking of getting an OM-D for travel and general use. I will only be using it for casual street/landscape shooting, and at times on a tripod. With that in mind:

    1) I do not need weather sealing.
    2) The best AF is not that important.
    3) Image quality is important, because I will want to print.
    4) I want the camera to be as small as possible.

    I am trying to figure out why the M10 Mark II would not satisfy my needs...it is smaller than the M1 or M5 Mark II, and the differences I see in these 3 cameras are things I don't feel are important to my needs.

    For image quality, it appears they have slightly different pixel counts on the sensors, yet they have the same type of sensor. Is IQ the same for all 3 of these cameras?

    Is there something else I am missing in the differences between these 3?

    Finally, I have really been researching printing with these smaller sensors. With upsizing, has anybody had any issues with going up to at least 20x30?

    Thanks for your time.
     
  2. JensM

    JensM Mu-43 Regular

    188
    Mar 6, 2016
    Oslo(ish), Norway
    As screename
    I would probably have a look at the Panasonic GX80/85, as well (name changes on the camera, depending on which market you are shopping in).
     
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  3. LunaBella

    LunaBella Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 29, 2016
    Interesting. I am kinda hesitant to go with a brand that is not one of the traditional manufacturers like Olympus. Maybe my paranoia about overall market share causing some to get out of the business is unfounded.

    The GX85 has IS in the body, I thought Panny had it in the lens? Is this something new?
     
  4. JensM

    JensM Mu-43 Regular

    188
    Mar 6, 2016
    Oslo(ish), Norway
    As screename
    They have had it since the GX7, as it is on the GX80, it works in conjunction with most of the stabilized lenses from Panasonic.
     
  5. robcee

    robcee Mu-43 Veteran

    289
    Jan 10, 2016
    Toronto
    Rob Campbell
    You might also want to take a look at the Pen-F. More money than the E-M10, but newer sensor and excellent IQ. Plus it's cute as hell. :)

    PS, I originally got into mu43 as a Nikon shooter too. I wanted a smaller system for traveling and street shooting. I ended up selling my Nikon gear. Be warned!
     
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  6. cptobvious

    cptobvious Mu-43 Veteran

    239
    Jan 8, 2013
    Sounds like the E-M10 II would be a good fit. If you're planning to shoot mainly with the PRO or larger lenses, then the E-M1 would be better because of the larger grip. The E-M10 II has a detachable grip option that would work if you shoot a combination of smaller and larger lenses.
     
  7. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Panasonic is one of the largest companies in the world (much more financially secure than Olympus), and in recent years they have rolled their still imaging division into the same business category as their highly profitable broadcast / video division, likely in large part to disguise any losses they might accrue in that segment so shareholders won't revolt. I think Panasonic is in it for the long run. And while they've only been manufacturing cameras for a few decades, I think that just from using them it is obvious that they are designed with and for photographers. The user interface is among the most intuitive that I've ever used, and the way that they incorporate modern technology like touchscreens to complement traditional photographic techniques is better than anyone else on the market, in my opinion.

    There are lots of reasons to prefer one brand over another, but I wouldn't let any non-operational reason get in your way. After all, even if Panasonic gets out of the camera business tomorrow and Olympus doesn't, who cares? Your body will still work, and you happily put all your lenses (Panasonic or Olympus) on an Olympus body with no issues.
     
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  8. Levster

    Levster Mu-43 Top Veteran

    It's strange when deciding between the E-m10 ii, E-M5 ii and E-M1 because they are all approaching a very similar price point, which in the UK is between £400-£500. I've owned all three and I currently own the E-M5 ii. My summary of the three is as follows:

    E-m10ii - touch-pad AF (you can use the touch screen as a track pad whilst looking through the viewfinder), smaller body, tilt screen, in built flash
    E-M5ii - best video quality, best IBIS, large viewfinder, fully articulating screen, comes with a nice flash
    E-M1 - best ergonomics (most like a DSLR), tilt screen, has last generation flash contacts

    I'd probably chose between the E-M10ii and E-M5ii, just because they're newer bodies and they match your requirement for something smaller.
     
  9. LunaBella

    LunaBella Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 29, 2016
    What about printing up to 20x30, or even larger with the 16mp? Is the hi-res upsizing on the E-M5 II that big of a deal?

    I plan to only buy one lens for now, the pro 12-40. Is that a big deal in terms of handling on that body? I still plan to use my DSLR beyond that range because that would mainly be sports or fast moving objects, at least until I sell all my Nikon stuff like Rob is warning me about. :)
     
  10. cptobvious

    cptobvious Mu-43 Veteran

    239
    Jan 8, 2013
    I have the 12-40 PRO on an E-M10 (1st gen) body, but I've kept the accessory grip on the body since I bought the lens. I feel a grip is almost necessary with that lens. If I didn't also shoot with primes, I would've sold the E-M10 and bought an E-M1. The Olympus-branded grip requires taking off the grip to access the battery or memory card, which is somewhat inconvenient. There may be third-party grips with a hole for direct access to the battery/card door but I don't have experience with those.
     
  11. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    With 16MP you may print 20x30 inches at 150dpi rather than the 200dpi you get with 24MP files.

    The hi-res mode on the E-M5 works fine, it's not a gimmick, but you need a tripod and static subjects.

    If you use a lens as big as the 12-40 on any of these cameras the body size difference won't matter much. I have the E-M10 and I use it with a pancake lens when I want a small camera, but with the 12-40 I usually add the external grip for better handling.

    Compact Camera Meter

    You may consider the Pana 12-35 for a sligthly smaller 2.8 pro zoom. Or the Pana 12-32 pancake.

    Panasonic cameras are as good as any other, they are a big name in the video world. They generally offer smaller lenses then Olympus. You can mix and match Oly and Pana lens/bodies with not big issues except for Pana bodies without IBIS where you obviously may want to have OIS in the lens.

    My summary of the three cameras:
    E-M10 ii: cheaper, a little smaller, not sealed
    E-M5 ii: high-res mode, slightly better IBIS
    E-M1: better S-AF and C-AF (PDAF/CDAF hybrid), better ergonomics, better price/value right now

    IQ is practically the same for all these cameras.

    The smaller camera in general are the Pana GM-1 / GM-5 but they are really small and may probably be too small for you even more if you match these with a big lens.
     
  12. LunaBella

    LunaBella Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 29, 2016
    Really? In US retail per their website is $1300 for the M1, $1100 for the M5II, and $550 for the M10 II. Thing are getting alot cheaper in the UK right now I hear :), but I don't know why they are so similarly priced if what you say is true.

    With that price difference, I find it hard to believe the IQ is the same. Are they the same IQ?
     
  13. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Basically exactly the same image quality. Even a $200 E-PM2 or $299 E-PL6 will deliver the same images. The E-M1 has a slightly different sensor, but that's mostly just to incorporate the phase detect autofocus (PDAF). All the other differences are in body quality or features.

    Really, it's very similar to other manufacturers as well. The sensor in the bottom camera is rarely that different from the top camera (barring differences in sensor size, of course).
     
  14. LunaBella

    LunaBella Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 29, 2016
    Thanks for this. That link to the sizes with lens is pretty cool.

    I read your replay after my previous one, so IQ is the same which is what I thought but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the big price difference.

    As for hi-res, can I get by with LR export upsampling? I invariably end up cropping pictures so I would even be less than 16mp. How does it work with long exposures, like flowing water for 15 seconds or so with static surroundings?

    I will look into the Panny gear. I really don't want to go less that FF equivalent 80 mm on the long end, but I appreciate you giving me stuff to think about.
     
  15. LunaBella

    LunaBella Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 29, 2016
    I guess I'm just used to Nikon with various sensors that change alot between models, mainly Toshiba and Sony I believe on various FF's and crops, some with/without OLPF, etc.
     
  16. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Well, the IQ gap between the D3300, D5500, D7200, and even the new D500 is not large, and that spans a price range of ~$500 with lens all the way up to $2000 body only. They are not identical sensors, the way it is with the Olympus cameras, but aside from some variation in low ISO dynamic range (perhaps due to a lack of 14-bit ADC in the lower end models?), the resolution and noise is functionally identical.
     
  17. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    If you are referring the the hi-res mode of the E-M5 ii you get a 42MP jpeg file or a 64MP raw file. This is something hard to get with about any other camera (Pentax K-1 may be the exception) and also color accuracy is improved as there is also no color interpolation and noise is reduced too.

    With moving things you get small jagged artifacts. You may fix/smudge these in post, you may painstakingly merge an upscaled single picture with the flowing water (where you do not have details anyway) into the high-res one but otherwise it is not usable. Here is a moving water test:

    Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II - A Quick Test of 40MP Mode - Admiring Light

    About the standard 16MP I think you find it too little just because you are used to 24MP. If you were used to 36MP you would find 24MP problematic too. To print 30x20 inches at 300dpi you need a little more then the 50MP of the Canon 5DS. So about any camera south of medium format is not good enough for your prints. But...do you need 300dpi?

    Large prints are all about viewing distance. 16MP files are used for professional prints of 24 by 36 inches. I cannot find the article right now but I remember a story about an exposition with big prints with mixed images from a E-M1 and a D810 (same photographer) where the Olympus images were more prized about details getting mistaken for the Nikon shots. And is not an uncommon story. Then you have lenses: an average lens won't be able to push out all of those megapixels anyway where a good lens makes much more difference.
    This just to say that in the real world large prints have little to do with simple numbers. But if large prints at close viewing distance is something that keeps bouncing in your mind then the E-M5 ii or Pen-F (20MP) are the cameras to look at.

    You may even download an full size image from one of the many showcase threads here and print it to get an idea of what you can expect.
     
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  18. LunaBella

    LunaBella Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 29, 2016
    Gotcha, just a little paranoid backing up with MPs. To be honest I have been shooting for a couple of years and have not made prints yet...I am in the process of culling through about 10,000 pix to build a website and then start printing, mostly for myself at first. So, I am questioning printing from a position of ignorance.

    I have read all the necessary dpi vs MP charts, and that obviously leads to some confusion where most say 300dpi is necessary. I have also read where it can be less, the most obvious reason is viewing distance. I appreciate your insight below on this as well.

    I really appreciate all of the responses I have gotten on this thread. I am in no rush, so I will digest all of this and make a decision. Thanks again.

     
  19. longviewer

    longviewer Mu-43 Regular

    128
    Oct 22, 2015
    SW Washington (Longview area)
    Jim R
    I just grabbed one of the last new EM10 'classic' bodies for $300 - that can answer many questions for you without bending the budget much. I briefly had an em5 and it too is very nice, and great used deals are out there. I've been a Pentax shooter since 2010 (and 1980-2000) but really the em10 has what I wanted from K-bodies except the weather seals. Interval shots/movies, IS inside, rear-button AF, and the tilt screen is my preferred rear screen. And oh yeah: Great image quality. :)
     
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  20. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    It was Ming Thein who printed much bigger from m4/3. The other formats were smaller prints. Visitors were amazed at all the detail that the d810 was producing. Not realizing that they were admiring the m4/3 sensor. With that said, of course FF produces better overall quality, but printing large (36x24 or larger) is not an issue. On another note, my choice would be the PenF if I were to buy a new m4/3 camera today.
     
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