OMG! is GX7 that bad????

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by jyc860923, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
  2. krugorg

    krugorg Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 18, 2011
    Minnesota USA
    Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I have heard it said that DXO's lens tests are a bit suspect.
     
  3. Serhan

    Serhan Mu-43 Top Veteran

    533
    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    It might be due to the mechanical shutter shock, but it should not be that bad. Dpreview didn't even mention it though it was in EP5 review. You can check the lenstip resolution tests from their Polish site:
    http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...tu-Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-GX7_Rozdzielczość.html

    It looks like they used the e-shutter for sensor results in their test, then it is close to G6/EP5 (they say ep5 might have weaker AA filter):
    98168_PGX7_rozdz_m.

    Here is the resolution difference btw shutters:
    98631_PGX7_rozdz_por.

    Difference is more in wider apertures. I never paid attention before, but it looks like e-shutter helps. So far I used full time e-shutter w/ gx7.
     
  4. nickthetasmaniac

    nickthetasmaniac Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 11, 2011
    Does the GX7 have an AA filter?
     
  5. Serhan

    Serhan Mu-43 Top Veteran

    533
    May 7, 2011
    NYC
  6. nickthetasmaniac

    nickthetasmaniac Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 11, 2011
    My understanding is that the EM1 doesn't, so this is going to have an influence if you're measurement is 'sharpness'.


    Besides, when you ask if the GX7 is 'that bad', actually how much of a difference is '5P-Mpix'?
     
  7. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I have an EE degree and have studied basic signal processing; usually an AA filter is considered mandatory, certainly not a bad thing!

    Even with my E-M5 (which has a weak filter), I get moiré patterns from aliasing occasionally - quite distracting and un-correctable. The real foolproof solution is to increase sampling rate (i.e. more megapixels), but that has obvious limitations due to photocell size...

    I personally dislike the trend of removing AA filters completely. I'd rather have lower detail than unavoidable moiré! Something like Pentax(?) configurable sensor shift AA solution seems better (especially given that with have sensor shift mechanisms for IS already).
     
  8. rbelyell

    rbelyell Mu-43 Veteran

    356
    Sep 15, 2013
    Mountains of NY
    well, i dont think you wanna have a contest on how many rather have max resolution all the time vs random moire. that debate started and ended with the m8. now i'm not trying to convince you. i think we have enough choices to do what we want. i just dont want anyone trying to convince me otherwise, and advanced degrees have little to do with this debate. i dont have an EE degree, but i do have a JD and have done advanced post-graduate work. is it ok that i dont like AA filters? i want as much resolution as possible and i'll fix or ignore the occassional miore issue. i had a gxr m mount for a long time and i never came across a moire issue, but every day enjoyed the incredible detail i was getting out of a sensor not wrapped in a condom.

    factually, i do not think the gx7 has an AA filter, and i will look around to find out.

    EDIT: it appears on a cursory google search, that before the camera came out, there was an absolute consensus over a score of sites that the gx7 didnt have an AA filter. interestingly, subsequent to it actually coming out, i cant find anything that addresses the issue.
     
  9. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    DXO results have so little relationship to the real world it boggles the mind they still have any credibility at all.
     
  10. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I am with u on this . Always take their conclusions with a pinch of salt. Moreover I would never buy a camera based on DXO score or recommendations . This forums is the largest platform for any kind of info on MFT shooters with real photographers and real world samples .
    Cheers
     
  11. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    1) sharpness isn't the be all and end all of photography unless you are a pro fashion, landscape, product photographer... look at the history of photography... most of the great iconic images are not 'sharp'.

    2) numbers on a chart don't equate to real life experience... in real life bad camera holding, poor shutter speed selection, moving subjects and high iso will all level the playing field

    3) DXO have a site not for your benefit....but for theirs... they sell software. As a marketing ploy they have invented this stupid score system to drive people to their site and work on the idea that if you are stupid enough to believe their 'scores' then you might buy their software

    Unless you have eliminated every other variable apart from the lens and your pictures are still not sharp enough for you and your audience... then maybe .. and only maybe take heed of DXO


    yes there are lenses that are sharper than others... the way you tell these? if there are two lenses at the same focal length.... then the more expensive one (assuming we are talking a difference measured in 100's of dollars) will be sharper/faster/better
     
  12. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Okay, after some investigation I'm convinced :beer: it seems like you can correct it.
     
  13. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    What's that I see under the bridge?
     
  14. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Panasonic improved the micro lens on chip for better low light performance, is it possible that a sharpness degradation happens because of this?
     
  15. heli-mech

    heli-mech Mu-43 Top Veteran

    959
    Mar 9, 2012
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Andrew
    Their conclusion certainly doesn't match my experience. I went from a GH3, which they test just slightly below the EM1 to the GX7 and I have found it, if anything, sharper than the GH3. Their numbers are out to lunch, either a dud camera or bad test. Balance out there test will all the other tests that have been performed and you will find that the EM1 is slightly sharper but not by any "stand out" amount.
     
  16. gcogger

    gcogger Mu-43 Veteran

    342
    May 25, 2010
    UK
    Graeme
    I'm with you too. I find myself baffled by their ratings as often as I agree with them (based on my own experience).
     
  17. bigal1000

    bigal1000 Mu-43 Veteran

    337
    Sep 10, 2010
    New Hampshire
    DXO forget about it !!!!!!!
     
  18. Ultbruin

    Ultbruin Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Oct 30, 2013
    I agree it must be a dud. I've seen many reviews of the GX7, GH3 and most if not all claim the GX7 to have better sharpness. DxO must have gotten a bad unit?
     
  19. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    Or they did a dud test. Is that so unimaginable?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. greenarcher02

    greenarcher02 Mu-43 Veteran

    330
    Feb 13, 2012
    Manila, Philippines
    Or they're just that unreliable.