OM Digital UK Q&A

fortwodriver

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Could the high-demand of that lens be due to the upcoming summer and winter Olympics? Has there been a hiring spree or contract-spree for photographers in Japan to prepare for both?
 

hoodlum

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Could the high-demand of that lens be due to the upcoming summer and winter Olympics? Has there been a hiring spree or contract-spree for photographers in Japan to prepare for both?

I suspect that all purchasers of this lens will use it to shoot wildlife. For sports I would think there are other slightly shorter/faster lenses in the roadmap that would be more applicable for this purpose.
 
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I think they will raise the prices on all new models just like everyone else.

There's a real easy way to do that... Raise the prices of all cameras. If you raise the price of the E-M5mkiii to the price of the E-M1mkii, you've just priced it out of one tier and into another.

That seems to be what a lot of camera makers are now doing... Producing cameras that are priced higher away from snap-shooters who will otherwise stay with their cameraphones.
 

PacNWMike

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Don't know why I even bothered to read this thread. Can't even afford this

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pake

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Well... If they dumbed down the E-M5 line even more, I think I might move on from m4/3s. I'm not interested in full frame sized bodies in m4/3 format and I want a top-performing camera (weathersealing, great AF, "Oly gimmicks" etc.). If I can't have what I want, I might just bite the bullet and go full frame.

But the good thing is that I'll have maybe 3-5 years to see what happens and make my decision then. But I do think that if OMDS removes the E-M5 line, they'll lose me as their customer too.
 

RS86

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Well... If they dumbed down the E-M5 line even more, I think I might move on from m4/3s. I'm not interested in full frame sized bodies in m4/3 format and I want a top-performing camera (weathersealing, great AF, "Oly gimmicks" etc.). If I can't have what I want, I might just bite the bullet and go full frame.

But the good thing is that I'll have maybe 3-5 years to see what happens and make my decision then. But I do think that if OMDS removes the E-M5 line, they'll lose me as their customer too.

I'd find it very odd if they wanted to lose the camera size advantage totally. Where is the sense in that?

Much more likely they will combine E-M5 and E-M10 lines. Not sure if that would mean more dumbing down.
 

RickinAust

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Well this may have stuffed up my strategy of waiting for everyone to sell off their MFT gear so I could pick up some bargains. 😧
 

RickinAust

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I think they should still retain an entry level camera. Something with a meaningful price gap to the EM1iii and below $1k. The reason being to get people into MFT and get them hooked. Maybe merge the EM5 and EM10 and create a EM15.

Hahah just saw RS86 post. Believe we are on the same wave length.
 

retiredfromlife

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Well considering the EM10 series is reported as their best seller in Japan and it also sells [or did so] in Australia as well according to my local shop it would not be wise in my way of looking at things to only cater for the minority of Olympus users who purchase the flag ship models
 

RAH

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I think that they will continue all the lines (1X, 1, 5, 10) at their respective relative price-points and abilities, because they all make sense.

I think the big problem right now with the E-M5 is that introduction of the latest models was out-of-sequence. The E-M5.3 should NOT have come out before the E-M1.3! That's where this got screwy, IMHO.

So, if they want to get back into the normal sequence, they'd come out with an E-M1X.2, then wait 6-12 months, introduce the E-M1.4, wait more and then the 5, then some more and the 10. This means that it could take quite awhile for a new E-M5 to come out, which would make users worry and potentially leave the system (e.g. me and @pake ). The E-M10 wouldn't suffer so much by the delay because everybody would expect it and not care anyway.

So they need to get going and come out with a new E-M1X asap (with a new sensor, etc) and show their hand upgrade path-wise, IMHO.
 
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I think the big problem right now with the E-M5 is that introduction of the latest models was out-of-sequence. The E-M5.3 should NOT have come out before the E-M1.3! That's where this got screwy, IMHO.
I agree. Either the Mark III was too late and should've been released much earlier or they should've brought it up more to E-M1 Mark III levels in terms of features and internals. Last but not least I still think going for that "premium" plastic body was a poor choice, even though it saves some weight, so far I haven't seen many previous E-M5 owners complain too much about their cameras being too heavy. Instead being a compact, rugged high-end alternative, it looked more like some afterthought version where Olympus cheaped out.
 

RS86

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I agree. Either the Mark III was too late and should've been released much earlier or they should've brought it up more to E-M1 Mark III levels in terms of features and internals. Last but not least I still think going for that "premium" plastic body was a poor choice, even though it saves some weight, so far I haven't seen many previous E-M5 owners complain too much about their cameras being too heavy. Instead being a compact, rugged high-end alternative, it looked more like some afterthought version where Olympus cheaped out.

Well at first people complained and were panicking with the plastic breaking, but it turned out it was a problem only for certain straps that put too much stress on the tripod socket.

Haven't seen much more complaints, and I think the issue has been overblown, especially in dpreview forums where one can't be certain is the person some troll for example who just wants to complain about M43 products.
 

RAH

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I agree. Either the Mark III was too late and should've been released much earlier or they should've brought it up more to E-M1 Mark III levels in terms of features and internals. Last but not least I still think going for that "premium" plastic body was a poor choice, even though it saves some weight, so far I haven't seen many previous E-M5 owners complain too much about their cameras being too heavy. Instead being a compact, rugged high-end alternative, it looked more like some afterthought version where Olympus cheaped out.
Glad you agree about the sequence. However, I'm with @RS86 about the body being plastic. Doesn't bother me at all.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean here: "Either the Mark III was too late and should've been released much earlier or they should've brought it up more to E-M1 Mark III levels in terms of features and internals." Your sentence is confusing because I cannot tell what the first reference to "Mark III" means - the E-M1 or the E-M5.

Do you mean that the E-M5 Mark III was too late and should've brought it up more to E-M1 Mark III levels in terms of features and internals? If so, I don't see how that fits with my idea that E-M5.3 came out too soon relative to the E-M1.3. Yes, they BOTH could have come out sooner, if that's what you mean. But, surely the E-M1.3 should have come out before the E-M5.3.

Also, I think most people think of the features and internals of the E-M5.3 as being a scaled down E-M1.3. I mean, how many more of the E-M1.3 features could it have in a smaller-bodied camera? It's only missing HHHR, ND , and starry ski. Otherwise, they are pretty similar in features, IMHO.

If you mean that the E-M1.3 was too late, then I agree with you, but then I don't know how that fits with the rest of the sentence that says it "should've brought it up more to E-M1 Mark III levels in terms of features and internals." I mean, it is the E-M1.3.
 
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mawz

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The E-M5 III is a scaled down E-M1.2, not a scaled down E-M1.3.

And that, along with the battery and EVF downgrades are its real problem. It should have been either a couple years earlier with its specs, or been a little later and TruePic IX. LiveND and Starry Sky should have been in it.

it suffers from being squished between the almost as capable E-M10.4 and the more capable but cheaper used E-M1.2 and since there are no small sealed lenses it’s main advantage over the E-M10.4 is lost while it needs a grip to handle well with anything that takes advantage of the PDAF or sealing except the 12-45 Rendering it E-M1 sized without the viewfinder and with a smaller and less accessible battery.

The E-M5 line needs a rethink. It either needs small sealed lenses or to get merged into a baby E-M1 in truth (and the older E-M1 body dropped as a current body). I think OM Digital needs to look more closely at why the E-M5.2 had a real value prop against the E-M1’s when the E-M5.3 lacks that same proposition despite being quite a nice little body on its own
 

RAH

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I take what you mean and agree to a certain extent. I agree that the E-M5.3 is a scaled-down E-M1.2, but it does have features of the newer E-M1.3 also.

I guess it depends on a person's priorities. For example, since I have absolutely NO interest in weather sealing, I always wondered why ANYONE would chose an E-M5.2 over an E-M10.2. It just mystified me. I think Olympus itself felt this way when they removed features with the E-M10.3 - in order to differentiate the 10 from the 5 more.

Also, I VERY much value hi-res mode. So I do not at all consider the E-M10.4 to be almost as capable (I do think that the E-M10.4 is a nice camera, however).

As far as the battery on the E-M5.3, well, I like that it takes the same battery as the E-10.2 and up, since I have an E-M10.2. I doubt if you could fit a larger-capacity battery in the body anyway.

So, different strokes for different folks. :)
 

RS86

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The E-M5 III is a scaled down E-M1.2, not a scaled down E-M1.3.

And that, along with the battery and EVF downgrades are its real problem. It should have been either a couple years earlier with its specs, or been a little later and TruePic IX. LiveND and Starry Sky should have been in it.

it suffers from being squished between the almost as capable E-M10.4 and the more capable but cheaper used E-M1.2 and since there are no small sealed lenses it’s main advantage over the E-M10.4 is lost while it needs a grip to handle well with anything that takes advantage of the PDAF or sealing except the 12-45 Rendering it E-M1 sized without the viewfinder and with a smaller and less accessible battery.

The E-M5 line needs a rethink. It either needs small sealed lenses or to get merged into a baby E-M1 in truth (and the older E-M1 body dropped as a current body). I think OM Digital needs to look more closely at why the E-M5.2 had a real value prop against the E-M1’s when the E-M5.3 lacks that same proposition despite being quite a nice little body on its own

"it’s main advantage over the E-M10.4 is lost while it needs a grip to handle well with anything that takes advantage of the PDAF or sealing except the 12-45"

What does this mean? Why does it need a grip to take advantage of PDAF? Doesn't it work with any lens? What is the problem if a person needs a small camera usually, but has the option to put a grip to it for larger lenses? How do you make E-M1 II smaller? With a hammer?

Anyway, the point with E-M5 III was that they could ask for much money for the size proposition compared to E-M1 II, and such a camera is what the system needed. Many people paid it to get such a small capable camera, and I would have too, but opted for much cheaper used PEN-F (it has some things going for it, like 4 custom modes in the dial and Auto-ISO capability over ISO 6400 for example).

I'm not even sure if they could have done E-M1 III in this size at this point. It seemed hard to do it even in E-M1 size after E-M1X. And they have to reserve some features for the flagship cameras. The days of cheap and great Olympus cameras are gone, like E-M10 II. And I think the greatest upgrades will be reserved for flagships from now on.
 

mawz

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I take what you mean and agree to a certain extent. I agree that the E-M5.3 is a scaled-down E-M1.2, but it does have features of the newer E-M1.3 also.

What E-M1.3 features does it have that aren't in Firmware 3.x on the E-M1.2? Aside from USB charge, I'm not aware of any.

I guess it depends on a person's priorities. For example, since I have absolutely NO interest in weather sealing, I always wondered why ANYONE would chose an E-M5.2 over an E-M10.2. It just mystified me. I think Olympus itself felt this way when they removed features with the E-M10.3 - in order to differentiate the 10 from the 5 more.

Bigger EVF, Vertical grip support, both of which were lost with the E-M5.3. I care about sealing, but the 12-45 didn't exist back when I bought my E-M5.2, leaving me with the 12-50 as the only compact sealed option, and one that was in many cases a poor option.

Also, I VERY much value hi-res mode. So I do not at all consider the E-M10.4 to be almost as capable (I do think that the E-M10.4 is a nice camera, however).

As far as the battery on the E-M5.3, well, I like that it takes the same battery as the E-10.2 and up, since I have an E-M10.2. I doubt if you could fit a larger-capacity battery in the body anyway.

So, different strokes for different folks. :)

I'm of mixed opinion on Highres mode. I like it when it delivers, but find too often that conditions work against it even when shooting relatively static subjects (landscapes).

I do like standardizing on batteries, 3 versions were too much for a 4/5 body lineup, but I'm unconvinced the BLS-50 is enough smaller than the BLN-1 to make a difference. I do understand that Only had to pick one of the two and the BLN-1 was in far fewer bodies than the BLS-5/50 series. I don't like it, but I do agree with the logic behind the choice.

Generally, the limitations of the E-M10.4 vs the E-M5.3 are in terms of software lockouts. The missing features that a photographer would want are almost all software features that could potentially be unlocked via a firmware update (button customizability, High-Res, etc)
 

mawz

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"it’s main advantage over the E-M10.4 is lost while it needs a grip to handle well with anything that takes advantage of the PDAF or sealing except the 12-45"

What does this mean? Why does it need a grip to take advantage of PDAF? Doesn't it work with any lens? What is the problem if a person needs a small camera usually, but has the option to put a grip to it for larger lenses? How do you make E-M1 II smaller? With a hammer?

The lenses where PDAF gives a performance advantage are all larger and handle poorly on an ungripped E-M5.3, as PDAF really only benefits C-AF use and that generally means telephoto's and/or faster lenses suitable for action shooting. And the gripped E-M5.3 is frankly marginally larger than an E-M1.2. When running ungripped, the E-M5.3 doesn't take advantage of most of its advantages over the E-M10's as sealing isn't available on compact lenses (barring the 12-45) and it lost the bigger battery and better EVF of the E-M5.2 and even gripped it no longer has vertical grip support so no dual battery option.

Anyway, the point with E-M5 III was that they could ask for much money for the size proposition compared to E-M1 II, and such a camera is what the system needed. Many people paid it to get such a small capable camera, and I would have too, but opted for much cheaper used PEN-F (it has some things going for it, like 4 custom modes in the dial and Auto-ISO capability over ISO 6400 for example).

I'm not even sure if they could have done E-M1 III in this size at this point. It seemed hard to do it even in E-M1 size after E-M1X. And they have to reserve some features for the flagship cameras. The days of cheap and great Olympus cameras are gone, like E-M10 II. And I think the greatest upgrades will be reserved for flagships from now on.

The problem with the E-M5.3 is that it's way more expensive than an E-M10.4 with few advantages when used off a tripod or ungripped, and much less camera than a E-M1.2 when on a tripod or gripped. It's a good camera on its own, but it loses out on most comparisons to the models next to it.

It would be different if it had come in at the $999 price point, it is a better body than the E-M10.4 all-around, but not as much so as the E-M5.2 was to the E-M10.2 or E-M10.3. But it's expensive enough that it's cheaper to get a used E-M1.2 (and in fact you can probably get an E-M1.2 and a E-M10.2 used for the cost of an E-M5.3 + grip new).

As a result, it doesn't look like the E-M5.3 is moving much of all.
 

Paul C

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How much of the camera manufacturers issues revolve around the dramatic shift to AI? The investment into AI software will reach $150Bn by 2025 at current trends. This will undoubtably transform photography as it is already doing with mobile phone imaging.

Already we have a new M4/3 AI camera system launching from Alice Camera (a UK company!).

So while Sony and Canon are trading punches in the frames per second / AF speed / Eye focus / sensor size technology; companies with lower levels of sales and investment finance have to think smarter.

Just as few people saw Tesla arrive as a more valuable car company than VW or Toyota, perhaps the same will happen for imaging technology.

The imaging business - from Cinema Studios to magazines can't wait for AI. If AI can make photographers’ and editors jobs faster and more convenient, they will need fewer of them and could eventually replace them. Imagine what will happen to Stock Photography if we can have AI models without the need for model release forms and one touch image processing !

My view is - the sort of photos that I take looked good in National Geographic 10-15 years ago using cameras with 6-12MP sensors; so unless I get sent to Tokyo for the Olympic Games, I can sit with my current gear and see what happens. One thing for sure, no new system gets £5-10,000 of my funds for now unless they demonstrate the relative improvements in imaging from camera systems that has been achieved in recent years by phone tech and post-processing software. If anyone really wants 30x40's in the interim, then I have sensibly kept my 120 camera!

All of a sudden the Zeiss ZX1 looks to be the first "flawed" step into the next leap forward for cameras - rather than 50MP Sony sensors and Canon R5's.

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If Olympus, and other camera makers are alert to the future - expect them to be preparing for a bigger battle than bringing out a PenF mark2 or yet another upgrade of the OMD's !!

For now, M4/3 means I can carry 2 bodies and 6-8 lenses in a rucksack - or 1 body and 4-5 lenses in a shoulderbag; asituation that makes me unimpressed by the current "new" releases of monster sized lenses and bodies that defy the logic of the small sensor camera systems. My Full-frame cameras pretty much sit at home. A new piece of kit will have do do someting very special to get me to part with much cash at present!

How many others are, like me, sitting on our hands and waiting for the cards to fall in the next tech race?
 

hoodlum

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If the new sensor has a much faster sensor readout I wonder if OMDS would consider removing the mechanical shutter from the next EM10 or PENF to reduce size/weight while providing more room for better IBIS. This could be something unique to m43.
 
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