OM D EM1 MARK III - EyeAF Accuracy

SaintMovies

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New into the M43 World...just purchased an OM D EM1 MK3, 45 F1.2 lens. Love the camera and lens combo. But have noticed that outside of 4 feet from subject, the EyeAF, while it quickly and accurately finds the face and eye, as indicated in the EVF, as soon as I squeeze the shutter all the way, the little box disappears from the eye and the focus point locks onto the nose instead. Not sure if this is a lens or camera issue. Like I said from 4 feet it is 100% spot on.....IMO that’s not very useful to me. Firmware is up to date on both lens and camera. Any suggestions?
 

retiredfromlife

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While not really answering your question, I use the EM1.3 and 12-100 pro lens. I always just use a single focus square [small] and put it where I want.
To me these "eye detect etc" do not work as well as we would like in all conditions so I never use them.

Having said that others have indicated they have great success with eye detect. But unfortunately I do not so just use single small point.
 

SaintMovies

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While not really answering your question, I use the EM1.3 and 12-100 pro lens. I always just use a single focus square [small] and put it where I want.
To me these "eye detect etc" do not work as well as we would like in all conditions so I never use them.

Having said that others have indicated they have great success with eye detect. But unfortunately I do not so just use single small point.

I too have the 12-100 but have not tried EyeAF with it yet, mainly moved the single focus point, just like you mentioned. But because of the shallower DOF on the 45 @ F1.2 thought I’d test the reliability of the EyeAF. So far it’s not reliable or useful
 
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I don't have the 45 1.2, but I use the 45mm 1.8, 12-40 2.8, and the P25 1.7. Find the EyeAF very useful and have really good success with it. It's really helped with my young kids who won't stay still for anything. The face detect and C-AF has netted me a bunch of shots that would have been out of focus with my old EM1. It's definitely not 100%, but it's a great feature. If I need to get the most accuracy (with a subject that will hold still), I will switch to S-AF with it. I'm comfortable enough with its accuracy to let it do it's thing and I worry about overall composition and lighting. The times I've really been disappointed is when using it with the kids thinking it was in C-AF and i had it in S-AF and using low burst, but that's user error.

In most use cases I don't notice a jumping of the white box to a small green box inside the larger face box, but I have seen it move around a few times. I just chalked it up to it possibly moving the target point to the nearest focus point if the target is between two. Maybe that's naive, but i didn't have another explanation. It also seemed to only happen if the face was in a partial profile so far or maybe if initial focus is a good bit out when detecting the face.

Are you noticing a behavior difference in a particular focus mode?
 

SaintMovies

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I don't have the 45 1.2, but I use the 45mm 1.8, 12-40 2.8, and the P25 1.7. Find the EyeAF very useful and have really good success with it. It's really helped with my young kids who won't stay still for anything. The face detect and C-AF has netted me a bunch of shots that would have been out of focus with my old EM1. It's definitely not 100%, but it's a great feature. If I need to get the most accuracy (with a subject that will hold still), I will switch to S-AF with it. I'm comfortable enough with its accuracy to let it do it's thing and I worry about overall composition and lighting. The times I've really been disappointed is when using it with the kids thinking it was in C-AF and i had it in S-AF and using low burst, but that's user error.

In most use cases I don't notice a jumping of the white box to a small green box inside the larger face box, but I have seen it move around a few times. I just chalked it up to it possibly moving the target point to the nearest focus point if the target is between two. Maybe that's naive, but i didn't have another explanation. It also seemed to only happen if the face was in a partial profile so far or maybe if initial focus is a good bit out when detecting the face.

Are you noticing a behavior difference in a particular focus mode?

Focus behavior with EyeAF Is the same across the applicable modes

At what distance range do you find the EyeAF works with your camera and lenses? I am trying to determine if I have either a lens or camera issue, where I can address while still in my return window.

I just tested today with the 12-100, and with this lens I gain about another 2 feet of distance with spot on EyeAF....so in essence around 6 feet, give or take a half foot. Definitely, does not stick at 8 ft or further. At 8 feet the face and eye boxes do find both the face and the eyes, but the eye box does not stick.

one thing I did notice is that with the 12-100, while the EyeAF box does not work well outside of 6 feet, it does not lock focus on the nose as does the 45 F1.2....so I wonder if my 45 F1.2 copy was made on a Wednesday 🤨

Edit: Tried it again in good lighting and the 45 F1.2 and the 12-100 perform about the same.... the 12-100 is more assertive in locking onto the eye and staying locked on, however. The max range for both lenses where EyeAF works flawlessly is ~ 6 feet. Outside of that it switches to face detect only.
 
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LilSebastian

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I do not have an E-M1 III so can't speak to the Eye Detect. I have rented a Sony A7 III recently and found that it was quite good at locking onto a face and tracking a moving subject. My recollection is that eye detect was triggered more indoors where I was closer to the subject. That makes sense as an eye beyond 6-8 feet must be too small of a target to reliably find. Are you comparing your experience with the Olympus to another brand? Did you get results beyond 6-8 feet with those?
 

SaintMovies

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I do not have an E-M1 III so can't speak to the Eye Detect. I have rented a Sony A7 III recently and found that it was quite good at locking onto a face and tracking a moving subject. My recollection is that eye detect was triggered more indoors where I was closer to the subject. That makes sense as an eye beyond 6-8 feet must be too small of a target to reliably find. Are you comparing your experience with the Olympus to another brand? Did you get results beyond 6-8 feet with those?

Yes comparing to the Sony. But was not expecting the Oly to be as good...but was hoping for 8-15 feet range...which is my typical working distance with subjects, depending on focal length. The Sony’s are in a class all by themselves with EyeAF. My main cameras for work are Sony A7RIV and A9. Those two cameras lock on to the eyes and stick from about 20 or more feet away (in good light)
 
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SaintMovies

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Well it’s not a deal breaker if this is the limitation of the current Olympus technology. There are way more important positive features that make this camera great....just good to know the limitations. I would probably never use the EyeAF feature for any paid work (as I do without any doubts with the Sony’s).
 
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Well, I'm assuming that you are basically referencing distance with the 45mm, because it's going to change with the lens. 9 or 10 feet is where the eye indicator falls out on my 45mm 1.8 (testing with one of my kids a bit ago). It's going to be relative to the size of the face/eyes in the frame. But even if you're only getting 8ft on a 45 f1.2, that's a 4" depth of field on just the face detect, so putting an overlay on tracking the near eye isn't likely to be critical to maintain the eyes in focus. An 85 f1.4 on the sony at the same 8ft has a 2" depth of field, so it's more critical that they be able to track the eye. But once you get to 10ft on that the DOF is 4", so I would think that beyond that it's not necessary.

At those distances are you having photos where you don't have the eyes in focus? You were mentioning the overlay/box indicator is moving as you click the release, but is the end result of the photo ok?
 

SaintMovies

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Well, I'm assuming that you are basically referencing distance with the 45mm, because it's going to change with the lens. 9 or 10 feet is where the eye indicator falls out on my 45mm 1.8 (testing with one of my kids a bit ago). It's going to be relative to the size of the face/eyes in the frame. But even if you're only getting 8ft on a 45 f1.2, that's a 4" depth of field on just the face detect, so putting an overlay on tracking the near eye isn't likely to be critical to maintain the eyes in focus. An 85 f1.4 on the sony at the same 8ft has a 2" depth of field, so it's more critical that they be able to track the eye. But once you get to 10ft on that the DOF is 4", so I would think that beyond that it's not necessary.

At those distances are you having photos where you don't have the eyes in focus? You were mentioning the overlay/box indicator is moving as you click the release, but is the end result of the photo ok?

No I’m not getting 8 feet of good EyeAF performance. That’s the min distance I like to work with at that focal length. I am only getting about 6 feet where the EyeAF works well.

Again let me clarify, the EyeAF does find the eye beyond 6 feet...but it does not stick outside of it...and it’s a crapshoot where in the face the focus will lock onto. When I go back through the lcd, it will show the focus square usually locked onto the nose instead.

For example, out of 20 shots taken 8 feet or further, when reviewing the lcd, about 13 of the shots focused on the nose, 3 or more on the intended eye, the others somewhere on the face
 
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Mack

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I've noticed, on my E-M1X and the AI Birds/Eye thing, that I get better results when I set the release to fire shutter immediately on pressing the shutter button instead of hunting continuously for the eye again for subsequent focus. Don't recall the menu setting, but it's something along the lines of fire and not lock the shutter unitl focus is achieved or something like that. I figure that since it first got the bird and then its eye, it already got its focus point locked on so it may as well fire then and not waste time looking for the eye again while I continue to press the shutter fully so it will release. By the time it hunts again and keeps me from firing the shutter, the bird has moved or gone. It's "Don't fire until focus is achieved" or somehting along that line in the menu which seems to result in the delay and out of focus eye shot.

Also, I have the 45mm f/1.2 Pro and I did notice that I had to tune the AF for all the 25 spots it allows for with that lens. Mine may have some field curvature or something as the outer AF tuning points seem to take more correction that the middle ones Often the eye AF one is nearer the outer tuning points for me. Testing and calibrating it was done wide open so a really narrow DOF, but stopping down seems to help a bit too. Came out with what is below as to tuning its AF.

6.jpg
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SaintMovies

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I've noticed, on my E-M1X and the AI Birds/Eye thing, that I get better results when I set the release to fire shutter immediately on pressing the shutter button instead of hunting continuously for the eye again for subsequent focus. Don't recall the menu setting, but it's something along the lines of fire and not lock the shutter unitl focus is achieved or something like that. I figure that since it first got the bird and then its eye, it already got its focus point locked on so it may as well fire then and not waste time looking for the eye again while I continue to press the shutter fully so it will release. By the time it hunts again and keeps me from firing the shutter, the bird has moved or gone. It's "Don't fire until focus is achieved" or somehting along that line in the menu which seems to result in the delay and out of focus eye shot.

Also, I have the 45mm f/1.2 Pro and I did notice that I had to tune the AF for all the 25 spots it allows for with that lens. Mine may have some field curvature or something as the outer AF tuning points seem to take more correction that the middle ones Often the eye AF one is nearer the outer tuning points for me. Testing and calibrating it was done wide open so a really narrow DOF, but stopping down seems to help a bit too. Came out with what is below as to tuning its AF.

View attachment 871161

Like I said, I’m new to the platform, and camera so those are all excellent suggestions, so I will give them a try. In any case, EyeAF was only the icing and not the reason I bought into this system. So I’ll see if there any ways to tweak some settings and extract maximum performance out of this feature.
 

SaintMovies

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So I ended up returning the 45 F1.2 as I felt it was not firing on all cylinders in the focus Dept. I just got the replacement and it works like a charm. EyeAF is much more accurate and stickier, and the focus point actually registers on the spot indicated pre-shot. Before, the focus point may indicate it was on the pupil, but after the shot it would show it on the nose, or thereabouts.
 

Mack

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Imaging-Resources website shows the 17mm Pro and 45mm Pro at f/2.8 to be pretty much same for sharpness. I'd expect the 17mm perhaps to be a bit more tolerate of any sharpness issues being a wide-angle to the 45mm Pro.

I've been pleased with the 45mm f/1.2 even though it is a total PITA to fine tune the AF as mine seems to have some field curvature wide open shown by the odd tuning numbers in the various tuning spots mentioned above.

Couple below are from the 45mm f/1.2 Pro. I was surprised to see the eyelash detail in the cropped one which rivals my decade old Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 G series lens, i.e. the full-frame shot in bottom left successively cropped to the eye.

juliette-3d-edit-2-combo-jpg.jpg
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_6304076-01-b-jpg.jpg
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I've held off the 17mm f/1.2 as I was hoping for a 12mm f/1.2 Pro for astro when the series was first announced. Doubt it may appear now.
 
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So I ended up returning the 45 F1.2 as I felt it was not firing on all cylinders in the focus Dept. I just got the replacement and it works like a charm. EyeAF is much more accurate and stickier, and the focus point actually registers on the spot indicated pre-shot. Before, the focus point may indicate it was on the pupil, but after the shot it would show it on the nose, or thereabouts.
Glad it's working like it should now
 

SaintMovies

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Imaging-Resources website shows the 17mm Pro and 45mm Pro at f/2.8 to be pretty much same for sharpness. I'd expect the 17mm perhaps to be a bit more tolerate of any sharpness issues being a wide-angle to the 45mm Pro.

I've been pleased with the 45mm f/1.2 even though it is a total PITA to fine tune the AF as mine seems to have some field curvature wide open shown by the odd tuning numbers in the various tuning spots mentioned above.

Couple below are from he 45mm f/1.2 Pro. I was surprised to see the eyelash detail in the cropped one which rivals my decade old Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 G series lens, i.e. the full-frame shot in bottom left successively cropped to the eye.

View attachment 875251

View attachment 875252

I've held off the 17mm f/1.2 as I was hoping for a 12mm f/1.2 Pro for astro when the series was first announced. Doubt it may appear now.

Those look amazing, btw
 

Tapper

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Just goes to show - if you get a poor performing camera or lens DO get it replaced/returned ASAP. It might just be a weakness of the product, but it also might be a defective unit. Without going into detail, the first EM1.3 I bought was defective. I returned it, and the next one I bought later on was good.

EDIT: OK, my wording was not the best. What I meant was if you get a BADLY performing camera or lens, relative to what is expected and described in reviews and forums by other owners, then don't let your return period run out. Test it, call the company (i.e. I had a phone discussion with an Olympus engineer to confirm the defect), check with other owners on forums etc. If it has a noticeable problem, get it replaced or refunded ASAP. Don't let yourself get stuck with a faulty product, or sell a faulty product onward to someone else.
 
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