Olympus v Panasonic, Focus bracketing and IBIS

[Vermont3133]

I'm looking at the GX85 and the EM 10 Mark 2 as an alternative to my Fuji gear [which I could consider keeping].
I'm particularly attracted by IBIS and dual stabilization and focus bracketing.
A few questions:
How does the EM 10 2 stabilization compare to the GX85.....with IBIS only and with a dual stabilized lens?
From what I understand with dual stabilization it's approx 3 stops in body and 2 stops from the lens?
So would a dual Panasonic combo beat the Olympus with an un-stabilized lens?

I understand the EM 10 2 does straight focus bracketing...I have Helicon Focus so that's not a problem.
Now does the GX85 do straight bracketing or does it depend on the in body focus stacking?
This sound great...except that it seem to only output 8 Mb files. Could be fine in practice but it's worries me a bit re. cropping and printing.
Many thanks in advance

 

[ac12]

As I understand, yes, dual IS (body + lens), is better than either one by itself.
BUT, Olympus currently only has TWO lenses with IS, and both are pro level and priced lenses; the 12-100 f/4 and 300 f/4.

There was also some discussion that for LONG lenses, lens IS is more effective than body IS.

 

[Vermont3133]

Thanks for that.
I'm not contemplating getting any of the stabilized Olympus lenses.....thinking more about shorter lenses on either body so it would be a comparison between the Panasonic with dual stabilized Panasonic lenses versus Olympus with un-stabilized lenses or Panasonic lenses that wont stabilize anyway on the Oly.

At the moment I'm thinking about starting with the Panasonic 12-32 on either body and maybe a 20-40mm prime.
And just another question to clarify.....how does the IBIS on both bodies compare when using a non stabilized lens?

 

[ac12]

You can turn on lens stabilization on a Panasonic lens on an Olympus body.
However, doing that turns off the body stabilization.
It is an ether-or situation.

 

[Phocal]

As for focus bracketing the Olympus will give you RAW files and the Panasonic will give you 8mp JPEG files. If focus bracketing is a priority than I would go with Olympus.

As for IBIS, you may gain a little with dual IS from Panasonic but it will honestly be situational as you will be the realm of subject motion causing blurry shots. For the shorter focal lengths I personally don’t think it’s that big of a deal or needed.

 

[wjiang]

The G9 has 'normal' RAW focus bracketing, not related to the JPEG 6K photo mode.

 

[Phocal]

WRONG!

THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION

FYI......NO NEED FOR ALL CAPS

 

[retiredfromlife]

Don't know about all the Panasonic bodies but the G85 & G9 both do raw and or jpg for bracketing and you can adjust the distance between shots like Olympus.

It is in the focus stacking that big differences between brands start to show.

In some Olympus models EM1.1, EM1.2 and now I think EM5.2 the stacking is in raw and you can adjust the focus steps like bracketing. Olympus also has flashes that can be used with the stacking. Panasonic has no flashes so Olympus is the better system for stacking, but it is also limited to certain pro lenses.
As far as I know apart from those three cameras all the others just do bracketing.

Panasonic has stacking that is part of their 4K / 6K photo modes but is not adjustable or as good as olympus but with Panasonic you can use any lens from OLy or Pany but the results are not as good.

 

[Drdave944]

As for focus bracketing the Olympus will give you RAW files and the Panasonic will give you 8mp JPEG files. If focus bracketing is a priority than I would go with Olympus.

As for IBIS, you may gain a little with dual IS from Panasonic but it will honestly be situational as you will be the realm of subject motion causing blurry shots. For the shorter focal lengths I personally don’t think it’s that big of a deal or needed.

I should agree with second paragraph. I think the GX 8 was JPEG only.

 

[cdmicha]

I actually own both of these cameras, and will do some stabilization and bracketing tests later today. I don't use bracketing that often, but from my experience, the IBIS in the EM10.2 is a little better than the GX85. I only have two lenses with OIS (the 12-32 and 45-150), and haven't used them that often so can't really speak to the Dual IS, but will throw them in my tests later and let you know.

From a general use standpoint, these are both great cameras. For me, the EM10.2 has better ergonomics and a better EVF. The GX85 has 4k video (and various features built around this).

 

[cdmicha]

I shot both cameras using lenses at 12mm (Oly 12-40), 25mm (Pana 1.7), 40mm (Oly 40-150), 75mm (Oly 75), and 150mm (Oly 40-150 AND Pana 45-150). I tested each camera and lens combination with shutter speeds of 1/100, 1/50, 1/25, and 1/10. Finally, I tested both cameras with IBIS turned on and IBIS turned off. I took between 10-20 images with each combination of camera, lens, shutter speed, and IBIS (which ended up being WAY more variables than I had originally thought). Without any IBIS, I actually had a few more usable images from the GX85 (but it was still a very low rate), and I'm not sure why- maybe because I cradle the camera better when I hold it? I used all the same lenses. Also, after I had finished all this and was calculating effective stops of IS, I realized I didn't go nearly low enough to test 12-40mm past 2 or so stops, so there's that.

So after a bit of testing and 1:1 image checking this afternoon, here are my answers to your questions:

How does the EM 10 2 stabilization compare to the GX85.....with IBIS only and with a dual stabilized lens? From what I understand with dual stabilization it's approx 3 stops in body and 2 stops from the lens? So would a dual Panasonic combo beat the Olympus with an un-stabilized lens?

With IBIS only, the EM10.2 beats out the GX85 in shorter focal lengths (12-25). I had about a 10-20% better keeper rate when down at 1/10, and about 5-10% at 25mm. At longer focal lengths (40-150), I didn't get that much much of a difference (this sort of surprised me). The screen and EVF on the EM10.2 seem "steadier" when you engage the IBIS, but this didn't translate into that many more sharp images. Again, this might be because I hold the cameras differently- I'm sure a large part of the differences here could be mitigated by hand holding technique.

Using the 45-150mm at 150mm (the longest lens I have with OIS, and I'm sure it's not that great of an implementation), I did notice a larger keeper rate on the GX85. Again, it wasn't that huge, maybe 10-15% more sharp images.

Now does the GX85 do straight bracketing or does it depend on the in body focus stacking?

Both cameras have focus bracketing modes and will take individual images at varying focus intervals. The main differences that I've seen are 1) the EM10.2 forces you into a high speed electronic shutter, where the GX85 will use either mechanical or electronic (whatever you currently have selected), and 2) the EM10.2 will always start at the nearest focus point and work backward, where the GX85 lets you choose between that or working from the middle, then to the front and back. Both shoot all the frames consecutively once you press the shutter button, and they both shoot either jpg or raw, or both.

The in camera focus stacking (not to be confused with normal bracketing) is done via Panasonic's post-focus mode, one of their "4k photo" features. They're fun to have and play with, but rest assured if you're looking for regular focus bracketing, it's there.

 

[archaeopteryx]

Don't know about all the Panasonic bodies but the G85 & G9 both do raw and or jpg for bracketing and you can adjust the distance between shots like Olympus.

Focus bracketing was introduced in the GH5/G8/G85/GX8/GX85 generation. Panasonic's been a bit slower on this than Olympus, consistent with their focus on video and Olympus' focus on stills.

The G7 and some others picked up 4k post focus by firmware update. I don't recall that extending to focus bracketing or in camera stacking.

 

[Lcrunyon]

Just a clarification on the Olympus focus bracketing, as a few posts above were incorrect. Focus Bracketing, which I believe is the only option for the E-M10 Mkii, will give you raw images to work with. You can select the number of layers (and it’s a ridiculous number) and the focal interval (sort of like the space between each layer, which you need to be sure doesn’t exceed the DoF). You focus on the nearest point of the subject and let the camera do the rest. With a little practice, it works like a charm. Because it uses the electronic shutter, it can even be done handheld. It doesn’t combine the stacks in camera. You’ll need software like Photoshop or others for that, it is also compatible with any lens.

Focus stacking is only available on a few Oly bodies, and is only compatible with a handful of lenses. It can be done handheld as well. The main difference is that it processes the merged final result in-camera, as a full-sized JPEG. It works well enough, but you don’t have the option of choosing the number of frames (which I believe is always seven, IIRC). You can still select the focal interval. It also starts in the middle and shoots some frames in front but the majority behind. So, it requires a little more experience to get the correct aim point. IMO, the regular focus bracketing mode is the more useful.

 

[Vermont3133]

Thanks for all the input guys. And a particular thank-you to cdmicha for what looks like some pretty exhaustive testing and concluding.
I'm swaying towards the EM 10 2 but I rather like the rangefinder form factor of the GX85 which is similar to the a6000 that I owned.

 

[retiredfromlife]

Thanks for all the input guys. And a particular thank-you to cdmicha for what looks like some pretty exhaustive testing and concluding.
I'm swaying towards the EM 10 2 but I rather like the rangefinder form factor of the GX85 which is similar to the a6000 that I owned.

If going for the GX85 check the EVF first it is too small for my liking, but most seem to be happy with it

 

[Vermont3133]

If going for the GX85 check the EVF first it is too small for my liking, but most seem to be happy with it

Thanks for that.....although I prefer to use a flippy LCD when I can [spectacles] I would like to have a decent EVF when needed.

 

[ac12]

Thanks for that.....although I prefer to use a flippy LCD when I can [spectacles] I would like to have a decent EVF when needed.

I wear glasses, and prefer the EVF as my primary viewing method, and use the screen as my secondary.
Holding the camera away from my body so that I can look at the rear screen is not as stable as having the camera up at my face.
It is difficult for me to track a moving subject with the rear screen. MUCH easier with the EVF.
The rear screen is difficult to use in bright sun, where I have to shade it with my hand, and even then it can be difficult to see. This has really frustrated me with P&S.
I only use the tilt/articulated screen for low (ground level) or high (above my head) angle shots.

 

[cdmicha]

Thanks for all the input guys. And a particular thank-you to cdmicha for what looks like some pretty exhaustive testing and concluding.
I'm swaying towards the EM 10 2 but I rather like the rangefinder form factor of the GX85 which is similar to the a6000 that I owned.

You're welcome, I just happened to have both here. You can't really go wrong with either model. If you can try them in hand, that's always best, but honestly I like them both about the same.

 

[realnasty]

With IBIS only, the EM10.2 beats out the GX85 in shorter focal lengths (12-25). I had about a 10-20% better keeper rate when down at 1/10, and about 5-10% at 25mm. At longer focal lengths (40-150), I didn't get that much much of a difference (this sort of surprised me). The screen and EVF on the EM10.2 seem "steadier" when you engage the IBIS, but this didn't translate into that many more sharp images. Again, this might be because I hold the cameras differently- I'm sure a large part of the differences here could be mitigated by hand holding technique.

Your findings seem to be coherent with various tests which I found on couple of reviews - Olympus is a little bit better (about half a stop) and using stabilized lenses with Panny doesn't seem to make much difference. One thing I discovered by myself (while comparing Pen-F and EM10.2 IBIS) is that better stabilization is much more visible at shorter focal lengths - on 25 and 45 mm results was almost identical and on 14 mm I got 100% keepers with Pen-F and at most 30% with EM10.2 (and the latter is my camera which I'm used to).

 

[Drdave944]

The Pen F is supposed to have better IBS. Stability in at low focal length lens should be optically less challenging. For example super telephoto lenses are really hard to stabilize. It also depends on the distance to the subject. Thanks for your efforts. Useful.