Olympus unwilling to fix faulty IBIS on E-M5! (EDIT: Oly will send a replacement!)

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by pake, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. pake

    pake Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 14, 2010
    Finland
    Teemu
    [video=youtube;2CmVtlBcj_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CmVtlBcj_w[/video]

    So... The video above is quite self-explanatory. When I press the shutter halfway the IBIS activates and moves the sensor a few millimeters to the right. Sometimes it takes 1/2 second to get there (yes, the image moves slowly until it finally stops). Sometimes the image moves (well JUMPS actually) and rotates a degree or two (clockwise).

    Added video (2014/02/12):
    [video=youtube;D-ktD4NuljE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ktD4NuljE[/video]


    Isn't image stabilization supposed to keep the image still / stabilized? It seems that Olympus doesn't think so... :doh:

    I've sent my E-M5 three times to repairs. First time they fixed the bezel crack on the screen and I assume did nothing to the IBIS. Then I sent the E-M5 back because the IBIS was still acting weird. Well, the camera came back untouched with a note: "functions according to Olympus specs and parameters". I got angry and posted a few private messages to different Olympus Facebook-pages and demanded an answer. I got a response saying that I should send the camera one more time to repairs and I should mention a certain name since he would be the one to fix my camera and it would be handled as soon as possible.

    Well... I just got my camera back again and guess what! It came back unfixed and they still claimed it functions according to Olympus specs and parameters. UNF'NBELIEVABLE! :mad:

    I know there's some people in this forum that has had their E-M5's IBIS fixed (Who? Where? When? How bad was it?). I'd like to get some comments here since I'm about to start a fight against Olympus and their crappy customer care / warranty repairs. I'm not giving up insisting that an IBIS SHOULDN'T function as mine does. Well, I may give up if a dozen experts can convince me otherwise. So, what do you guys think? Am I crazy saying that an image stabilizer shouldn't move/jump the image like this or do you consider it normal and acceptable? :biggrin:

    And the best is yet to come... Now that I got my E-M5 back unfixed they still managed to break the auto-focus so that my E-M5 won't auto-focus my precious 12-40mm f/2.8 lens anymore!!! It works perfectly fine on my E-PL1 and E-PM2 but not on my E-M5. And yes, I have checked I'm not using Manual Focus and yes, I'd checked the L-Fn isn't pressed on the lens (I even changed the function to magnify and it worked ok). E.g Pana 14mm auto-focuses fine. They had changed the firmware on my E-M5 so I assume it might be at blame for the auto-focus fault but still... It's not acceptable that they didn't fix the IBIS and left my E-M5+12-40mm combo handicapped. :mad:


    PS. If there's any typos etc. I'm sorry... I'm just REALLY frustrated, annoyed and angry at the moment.

    PPS. 12-40mm working again. The manual focus ring wasn't properly in the auto position since after I switched it to manual and back I got it working again. So at least one problem less.

    EDIT: Added another video. This one has audio and demonstrates how the sensor keeps on "gliding" after the focus lock sound (the first 6-7 tries - the last ones seem to lock after the gliding).


    FINAL EDIT: Olympus sent an email telling me that they will send a new E-M5 body and case is therefore closed. Kudos to Olympus!
     
  2. Rudy

    Rudy Mu-43 Veteran

    449
    Jan 24, 2013
    Oakland, CA
    I have two E-M5 bodies and they both have a little bit of drift after IS kicks in. Not as much as your video shows and one is worse than the other, but they both have it.
    It's a bit annoying and I compensate by reframing. On a tripod it might be really annoying, but then you could or should just turn IBIS off anyways.
    For a while I had the IBIS on half shutter press turned off, so it would only kick in during the exposure. I did this mostly to let me not get too lazy about keeping the camera still.
    It is however pretty tricky to focus longer legacy lenses without the IS being on, so now I keep the IS on half press option on most of the time.
    As to the cause of the jumps, my guess would be that the algorithm is trying to keep the sensor in the center of its motion range during preview. Before you activate IBIS the sensor is suspended by some springs which might not exactly center it.
    Once IBIS is on the magnets are taking over and the algorithm is trying to center the sensor, so that it has the maximum room to keep the image still during the actual exposure. That's why there is a jump. From testing with my cameras gravity does not make a (significant) difference. The jump is always in the same direction relative to the body even if I orient the camera upside down.
    This seems to indicate that the default spring position is off, in your case by quite a bit.
    For reference one of my cameras jumps about half as far as yours and the other about a quarter as far.
    Rudy
     
  3. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    Did they give you a number/measurement as far as what was acceptable? If not, maybe that is worth pressing.
     
  4. pake

    pake Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 14, 2010
    Finland
    Teemu
    Rudy: Yes, the jump is always to the same direction. But sometimes it also rotates and sometimes the jump is in fact a slow "glide". And the gliding is the worst since the green light lights up to signal "ok to shoot" yet the image/sensor still keeps moving for a 1/3 second. It's pretty obvious what happens to the picture if it gets taken during the glide...

    yakky: No numbers given. Each time they just replied the camera is functioning according to specs and parameters. In the email I sent a couple of hours ago I demanded to know the specs and parameters. If they do have the specs they should also be able to measure them and tell me what my numbers are.

    So... We'll see how they respond. I just can't accept that they claim it's normal that the image stabilizer moves the sensor when you're supposed to take a picture. IMO it's just the opposite of how they SHOULD work, right? :biggrin:

    And I got the 12-40mm working again. The manual ring wasn't properly in right position. It seemed to be in the automatic position but after I switched it to manual and back then it started working again. That was a bit embarrasing to be honest. :redface:
     
  5. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    I'm with you. It just seems unprofessional for them to say your camera is working fine and not give you anything more than that. The least they could have done was to say the limit is X and your camera is 0.1 percent below that. Then you'd know fine, just deal with or move on. Them telling you it is fine when you say otherwise adds insult to injury.
     
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  6. riverr02

    riverr02 Mu-43 Veteran

    258
    May 2, 2011
    New York
    Rafael
    Pake,

    FWIW, I've got an EM-1 and an EM-5, and both do the same thing to a varying degree. Posted a thread earlier to make sure it's not a flaw, and the general consensus was that it was par for the course with regards to IBIS functionality. The EM-1 does tend to keep the IS on for a longer duration after you release the shutter release. Not sure it'll help or be useful to you, but if it bothers you and Olympus continues to assert it's normal operating behavior, you might consider the option to shut off IS with half-way release. Know it sort of defeats the purpose to maintain a stabilized picture in the viewfinder, but theoretically the IS would only be on for the image capture and I believe this is how most lens-based IS works. In addition, having it out of sight may help keep it out of mind ; )

    Hope this helps,
    Rafael
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. teddoman

    teddoman Mu-43 Regular

    191
    Mar 22, 2013
    nyc
    I have Panny LX7 lens stabilization, Nikon lens VR, Sigma lens OS, and Sony camcorder lens stabilization, and those movements do not look like any stabilization I am familiar with. But granted I have never used Oly IBIS.

    I would compare what you are seeing to my experience, but I had trouble hearing what you were doing at each precise moment in the video. (Half shutter press vs shutter actuation vs nothing). Maybe turning on your camera shutter sound and focus beep (if E-M5 has one) would help.
     
  8. dav1dz

    dav1dz Mu-43 Top Veteran

    926
    Nov 6, 2012
    Canada
    Are you hand holding or is this on a tripod? Your earlier video (saw it by browsing your channel) shows the E-M5 on a flat surface. That's the same as if it's on a tripod. Can you clarify the second video since we can't see?

    The IBIS on E-M5 is not recommended for the tripod. It'll reverse compensate.
     
  9. rogergu

    rogergu Mu-43 Regular

    94
    Feb 11, 2013
    I had the similar horrible experience with Olympus customer support and repair. What I found is - do not trust what customer supports say over the phone, as they can not control what the repair facility does. The funny thing is they even do not talk to each other. The repair is outsouced to Precision Camera. My camera repair is within warranty and even free for shipping. However, Precision Camera first tried to charge me for the repair. I need to call Olympus and Precision Camera to coordinate it. Then Precision Camera damaged my camera(revenge???).
     
  10. pake

    pake Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 14, 2010
    Finland
    Teemu
    riverr02: Well I guess that's the thing to do if everything else fails. I love how the IBIS worked before and I'm not willing to let go. But we'll see what happens next...

    teddoman: I've turned the beep off since I don't think cameras should make such noises. But that's a good idea for the next video I'm going to shoot today. I will try to replicate this gliding effect (which is the biggest annoyance).

    dav1dz: The first video ~6 months ago was shot on a table. The second one was handheld. One of the problems with this IBIS issue is that when shooting on tripod (or a table) the IBIS seems to temporarily fix itself (the issue comes back after a few shots though). So I'm afraid the Olympus repair guys put the camera on a tripod, take a few test shots and decides everything's ok. If that's the case I can't believe how incompetent people is working there. :biggrin:
     
  11. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    Quite the opposite actually. Lens based IS works great during composition.

    I am not too surprised that this issue happens. Floating sensor // parked position // operating position // slight difference // some variance between cameras.

    I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you are quite sure that only a faulty camera could do it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. vm666

    vm666 Mu-43 Regular

    132
    Jan 19, 2013
    Paris
    I'm a bit surprised. I've never noticed such behaviour on the E-M5, E-PL5, E-PL1, or GX7.
     
  13. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    Olympus, like other companies, has separate subsidiary companies all over the world. The company that sells and handles repairs in Finland is not the same one that does it in the USA, Canada, etc. If you can't get satisfaction from your regional distributor, then I suggest you contact Olympus headquarters in Japan.
     
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  14. pake

    pake Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 14, 2010
    Finland
    Teemu
    The thing is that I've missed some shots because of this and it has also ruined some shots because the focus locks and I'm firing away and yet the sensor still keeps on moving. So, it's not "just cosmetic" thing since it can ruin pictures completely.


    I just added another video to the OP. This one clearly demonstrates how the sensor keeps on moving even AFTER the "focus confirmed" sound has been given. Would you guys want your IBIS/sensor to still move after the camera has confirmed focus and you're ready to shoot? Iiiii don't think so... :dash2:
     
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  15. teddoman

    teddoman Mu-43 Regular

    191
    Mar 22, 2013
    nyc
    I agree, it clearly shifts left a couple of mm right after you hear the beep, it's very clearly happening for 4-5 times in a row at the end of the video at least.

    Can't comment on how IBIS works though. Thinking about it, even each Nikon (or third party on Nikon) IS system works slightly differently.
     
  16. gochugogi

    gochugogi Mu-43 Veteran

    I recall in the mid-90s Canon's new IS lenses did the same thing--twitched and drifted. I actually felt a little seasick! Somehow they managed to fix it in the FW of subsequent bodies. However I'm surprised Olympus didn't notice a design problem like this before releasing a major product.
     
  17. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    These have the same IBIS mechanism technology.

    These don't all have the same IBIS mechanism.
     
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  18. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    have you noticed any of your photos being blurry drom the sensor movement? e.g. if you take your photo quickly without half pressing the button?
     
  19. bobpur

    bobpur Mu-43 Rookie

    21
    Feb 11, 2014
    I noticed that with mine when it was new but since it never had any adverse affects on pics it
    Never seemed like an issue, after reading your post I checked it again and it has decreased
    to where it is barely noticable and not every time.
    The firmware update to lower the buzzing noise by reducing the sr is most liklely the cause and the
    Parts have loosened up a bit with use so it has improved.
     
  20. jurgen

    jurgen Mu-43 Regular

    120
    Jan 27, 2014
    Ran a bunch of tests on my E-M1 trying to replicate this issue. Couldn't get it to happen. Framing stays dead on at all times with all IBIS settings.
     
    • Like Like x 1