On another note, the "bonus" 25/1.8 just arrived by courier. I think It's actually the first 25mm prime I've owned. I think it suits the 5iii . And it brings the effective purchase price down to around $1150 dollars, which is much more reasonable.
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Thanks, nice write up. I've done the same trip 10 years or so ago. I had a whole backpack of gear--NIKON DSLR days, sigh I think my 70-200 weighed as much as your whole kit, lol. Did both islands though. I get the in body charging is big when traveling--god I hate bringing a separate charger along. Did you already have that lens combo? It's a bit curious, why did you carry both the 12-60 and the 12-32? A lot of overlap there and don't see that you used the 12-32 much. Did you consider just getting something like the 12-200 or 12-100 and having that with your 15mm?
Was just thinking about my last big trip which was two weeks around western europe a couple of years ago. I had the EM1.2, the 17mm 1.8, the 7-14mm 2.8, the 12-40mm 2.8 and the 75-300mm and the charger and extra battery and gorilla pod. So i was probably at 700+150+550+400+450g. So about 2.3kg. For a bag, I just had a padded insert that I put in my messenger bag which I would have had anyway, but call it 2.5kg total. I don't think I would have done much differently today even though my lens selection is broader. I probably would have swapped the 75-300 and 12-40 with the 12-100 or bought a 12-200 and maybe added the 25mm or 45mm 1.8. But the weight would stay similar. I personally love wide angle and telephoto when traveling. A mobile-phone does a decent job at all the normal shots except low light.
I guess my point from the other thread was not that the roll out was botched, but I didn't really get this camera and it's release date. It felt like the core customers were mostly going to be the gram shaving types that cut the labels off their clothes and cut their toothbrushes in half while traveling but still want superb image quality. This is a market for mft cameras, sure, but is it fertile ground for a struggling to compete brand? I doubt it.
It actually looks like a great camera and I'm sure users that decide on it like you won't regret it. I just think Oly would have been better off putting resources into improving the sensor to put into the EM1.3 and then lowering the price of the EM1.2 which would then largely satisfy this market for more affordable feature-rich, weather-sealed camera and compact camera. Being compact is more about lens choices in my opinion.
I guess my point from the other thread was not that the roll out was botched, but I didn't really get this camera and it's release date. It felt like the core customers were mostly going to be the gram shaving types that cut the labels off their clothes and cut their toothbrushes in half while traveling but still want superb image quality. This is a market for mft cameras, sure, but is it fertile ground for a struggling to compete brand? I doubt it.
I cut the labels off my clothes but not for saving grams, just because I can't stand the contact of the labels on my skin. Maybe it's a sign that the E-M5.3 is for me
Olympus has introduced some limitations on the E-M10 to push some users on the E-M5 line, so it's fair from them to put nice upgrades in the E-M5.
The competition is quite strong between systems and even between m43 brands, so protecting the E-M1 by not introducing some functions (like hybrid AF) on the E-M5 would probably have been a mistake.
I think the form factor is quite different between E-M1 and E-M5 so that the first one won't draw buyers off the second one, and the introduction of a better E-M1.3 won't make my regret my purchase.
I just think Oly would have been better off putting resources into improving the sensor to put into the EM1.3 and then lowering the price of the EM1.2 which would then largely satisfy this market for more affordable feature-rich, weather-sealed camera and compact camera. Being compact is more about lens choices in my opinion.
Personnally, I don't care about a "lower price" E-M1 mk II. I would pay more for a E-M5 III.
And I think Olympus but a lot of resources on the E-M1X. It there were able to product a better sensor it would have make sense to have it ready for the E-M1X.
Wouldn't make much sense to have E-M1 III > E-M1X.
Did you already have that lens combo? It's a bit curious, why did you carry both the 12-60 and the 12-32? A lot of overlap there and don't see that you used the 12-32 much. Did you consider just getting something like the 12-200 or 12-100 and having that with your 15mm?
There wasn't really any great need for the 12-32, I thought I'd throw it in simply to have a pancake size lens for general carry about. It was on the camera a bit, but not a lot of shots. Having spent all my money, the 12-100 wasn't ever an option and I'm not overly enamoured with the 12-200 as a lens even though it does make sense on some fronts.
The other factor with the 5iii is that I'm a motorcyclist. It adds another layer of practicality in my needs for a camera. I will get to that in this thread at some stage.
Hey ho, home we go. Life being what it is - for most of us, excluding a few like, oh, America's Orange President - normality doesn't involve eternal holidays or an endless tour around New Zealand. So we returned to plain old Melbourne, to our plain old lives and settled in for the daily grind.
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To summarise, so far, so good. If the camera is "niche", its starting to feel that way only in as much as it can offer so many things as a package that others don't. The learning curve continues. Thanks for looking.
Thank you so much for that detailed follow up! I really enjoyed reading about your Week 2 adventures with this camera. Very nice photos, even though you they were all regular random shots. I appreciate your observations and opinions--they are very helpful.
I just got my E-M5 Mk III and initially I was not impressed by the polycarbonate body. All my Olympus cameras so far have had the cool reassurance of a metal body. But I'm sure I'll get used to it and love it (well, maybe not love it, but like it). I swear that my E-M5.3 + 12-40 bundle feels lighter, even though the weight is comparable to the E-M5.1 or Panny GX85.
I look forward to your future posts as you learn more about the camera.
@saladin Fantastic shots and commentary on the E-M5III. Thanks so much for sharing!
Also, thanks for bringing to my attention the issue with the filename customization not carrying over between modes. I didn't catch that on my E-M5III. However, on my PenF, EM10ii, and E-M5ii, the filename does stick when switching between custom (mysets) and other modes. I shared this information with my viewers in a live stream today and will reference this post in a future video.
@saladin Fantastic shots and commentary on the E-M5III. Thanks so much for sharing!
Also, thanks for bringing to my attention the issue with the filename customization not carrying over between modes. I didn't catch that on my E-M5III. However, on my PenF, EM10ii, and E-M5ii, the filename does stick when switching between custom (mysets) and other modes. I shared this information with my viewers in a live stream today and will reference this post in a future video.
I think it works fine as long as its one of the first things you do before saving anything to a Custom position. I made the mistake of doing it as an afterthought and it therefore only applied to whatever mode i was in when i changed it. Now that i understand the menu's a bit better, i can set the camera up fairly quickly to my taste (which i had to do after the firmware update wiped out all my settings, not realising that i had to protect the changes i'd made! arrgh, another thing i got wrong ........ ).
Thanks for the kind words on this post. Much appreciated.
One of the interesting features creeping into many camera brands these days is the so-called "High resolution" mode, and various other names given it by companies. These modes invariably make use of the in-built image stabilizers to take multiple shots in quick succession with the sensor shifted a minute amount between shots, and the resulting images can then be blended into one file of vastly larger pixel dimensions. Olympus has done it since the Em5 Mkii. Panasonic camera's can do it. Pentax do it with their Dslr's - although interestingly they opt to not increase the file size, but rather use the extra info for colour accuracy and depth.
I've had the Hi-res function available on my Pen-F but for whatever reason never really used it. I thought I'd best rectify that on the Em5iii since it's one of the premier features available, and for a general travel camera it seems to my -often befuddled- mind to be something I needed to understand. The Em1x and now the Em1 Mkiii offer a "hand held" version of Hi Res (HHHR) , but the Em5iii is equiped with the "old" tripod-only version shared with the Em1 Mkii. This appears to be a function of processing power, and perhaps the small form factor of the new 5 ruled out its implementation here. Or perhaps not. I know some believe that Oly could and should have included it here, and certainly it'd be valuable in a camera that i view as primarily a tiny travel companion.
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Either way, I decided worrying about what it didnt have was futile, and set about learning how to use it. We all know that absolute stationary subjects are needed for decent results, and indoor still-life seems a natural habitat for the function. But thats rarely how i'll use this camera, and certainly not its primary use for me. So, I took the tripod to a position in Northcote from where i could see the Melbourne skyline and set up with the 40-150/5.6 kit zoom that I happened to have with me. It proved in large measure to be as futile as the pondering of why i didnt have HHHR, for several reasons. The main one being that Melbourne was somewhat hazy from our ongoing bushfire issues. Not terrible, but it removed any crispness from the distant objects and ensured that i ended up with nothing but gigantic files of largely soft details. Not all was lost however, because a few nearer objects - mainly chimneys - were obviously less effected by atmospheric conditions and they showed some promise. The other happenstance that made the effort worthwhile was that I learnt the location of the Hi Res settings. Because whilst you can access Hi Res from the drive mode on the SCD screen, making changes to how it operates is done from Shooting Menu 2 "Hi Res Shot" . Here, you can set a time delay between pressing the shutter release and the shot being taken. This is important in practice, because until you use this mode you probably won't realise just how vulnerable Hi Res is to ANY sort of vibration. Using the remote trigger via the App probably works just as well, but I dialled in a 4 second delay to allow any tremors imparted by my hamfisted shutter finger to dissipate. The other option in this menu allows you to halt the sequence of shots whilst the flash recharges. This is probably a critical ability for anyone doing Hi Res product shots under flash. I wasnt, so its a moot point at this stage.
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I returned to the same location a few days later and had another go. Conditions were much improved but still not as good as i've seen them. Perhaps, just perhaps, its inevitable that effectively shooting at or near infinity will inevitably introduce unfavourable air conditions. If the sun is out and you're shooting at long focal lengths, it seems likely that heat mirage will stymie your attempts at maximum detail. As will any wind unless you have a rock solid tripod or rest. Be that as it may, I felt happier with the second outing, but discovered another problem. Traffic. The nearby roadway was enough to transmit small vibrations to the tripod and noticeably blur some shots. I was incredulous at first, thinking it was more likely to have been wind. But no. Shots taken when i timed the release to coincide with stationary or non-existent traffic were clearly better than any taken when a car (or tram!) was rumbling past! This function is like a thoroughbred race horse, tuned to utmost performance but susceptible to all manner of niggling complaints. So far, whilst reasonably content that it could offer me some value, it wasn't something that i could envisage using too often. Certainly not for largely meaningless still life experimental resolution tests.
What's that? You WANT to see meaningless resolution examples!/ A demanding lot, ain't er? Allright, allright. Just this once, mind yer. I wasnt really sure how to test or demonstrate this, but i set up a mindnumbingly boring shot and took it in Hi-res and normal. Then i processed them in Workspace and I took a 2000 pixel wide crop from the Hi-res.
Here it is:
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Then i took a 2000 pixel crop from the standard.
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Then I took a crop that tried to approximate the same FOV as the Hi-res crop.
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So, aint that all just dandy? Several things - i'm not sure if i didnt quite nail focus. The Hi-res is extremely demanding and looks like it needs a bit of contrast added. And i can see the actual print pattern in the cardboard in the Hi-Res shot! And thats still a relatively large file, you can actually zoom in more! And that's that. Let us speak no more of such banal pictures.
Fast forward, then, a few more days and I found myself in a windswept rural scene without the tripod. An old barn caught my eye, but being on private land meant i couldn't get terribly close to it. Out of sheer stubborness, i pulled over and plonked the 5iii on an old fence post. Again, it was the 40-150 kit in the glovebox so it was stretched to maximum range and pressed into landscape duty. Curiosity got the better of me, and despite a very gusty breeze i decided to try Hi Res again. The fence post was far from level but at least it was stable. I tucked the wrist strap into a crevice in the timber - note well that any sort of strap hanging from the body has a high potential of ruining a Hi Res shot, just as it does with along exposure shot. Truly, the slightest murmur of movement transferred to the body when you're relying on half-pixel accuracy can be fatal in this mode. Brief aside : I love the Luckystraps camera straps, but without a quick release setup available, they're not ideal if you're shooting long exposures or the like, when being able to quickly remove the strap is an advantage.
In Hi Res mode, the camera shifts to electronic shutter, saves a standard definition "base image" and then proceeds to shoot 8 shots.
Here is the base image to give an idea of the framing and total shot. As you can see, the post was not exactly level, lol. Point of focus on the Barn, Iso 200, F/7.1, 1/640.
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I then extracted a 16:9 crop from the Hi-Res file in Workspace. Incidentally, the Hi Res pic was almost double the horizontal pixels of the base image. Straightened the image, added some clarity, sharpening etc and exported the file. Ridiculously, the cropped image is a bigger file than the exported base image:
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Obviously, there is motion blur in the foliage and grasses. But i don't find it objectionable, in fact i think it could add a nice feel to some situations. Arguably, MORE movement may be preferable to only a little (obviously None at All is ideal) because it may help to hide any processing artifacts in area's of movement. What struck me more than anything is that when it works, the Hi Res function can dramatically extend the reach of a given lens. Now, THIS may be more useful to me than a pinsharp rendition of a Tag-huer watch. I took the cropped file and ran a 12x8 print, just to see how it looked.
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There's a slight painterly look to the file in certain area's that I quite like. And I've no doubt at all that it could easily go up another few sizes in print in terms of the detail present in the barn. Provided, of course, that one is ok with the rendering of the movement of the trees, etc. And i have to say, I am. Or i would be, if the shot was worthy of printing and hanging, with better lighting and better angles etc. What I'll be fascinated to do is go back at a better time of day, perhaps sunset, with the 40-150 Pro instead of the kit lens, to see if the better resolving power of that lens adds anything to the shot. Hi Res feels like an empirical, scientific development of technology, but maybe, just maybe, it expands the shooting envelope further into a surprisingly artistic use if we can embrace the offshoots? And of course, it can turn your 150mm into something far longer. Which is no mean feat for a diminutive "travel camera". You still need a solid rest, but the sheer size of the files allows a level of cropping and straightening that permits some very rough and ready perches. I always viewed Hi-Res as large prints and therefore a bit redundant for me - I have perfectly fine 20x30 inch prints from normal 20mp and even 16mp sensors. But maybe, like other area's of this camera's abilities, its more about the flexibility and ways to get things done from a body that fit's in your hand.
But what about subject movement, in general? How much can it deal with? Can a fast shutter speed compensate for, say, something moving at, err, snails pace? Could i find such a slow moving subject!? Happily, yes!
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Less happily, the answer, alas, is -no. No it can't handle a stupefied snail. Pity.
Out of sheer bloodymindedness, i also tried some handheld shots. The problem here is that the Ibis is shut down in order to incrementally shift the pixel width, so you're own your own. Presumably, on the 1x and 1iii, Ibis continues to function in some way, allowing a decent stitch. Processing power, indeed. I managed one shot that was almost, kinda, ok, and several total failures.
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I think such an aim is beyond my ability. But I'll keep trying! And hey, you can always fall back on the single shot saved version if it all goes pear shaped. Here's the snail, frozen in all it's speeding glory via electronic shutter base image.
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Late News - 10th March 2020
As noted above, the Em5iii does not (alas) possess the Hi Res Handheld function that you are blessed with in the Em1 Mkiii or the Em1x . But i had a brief play last week with the 40-150 Pro equipped with the 1.4 T/C whilst trying to shoot moon shots. I didn't drag out the tripod, i just shot the 5iii handheld. At 210mm (420mm eq FOV for 35mm sensor) you still need a lot of cropping.
Stock standard shot with heavy crop:
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And then i tried two Hi-res shots, again handheld, leaning against a tree.
Applying the same crop as above gave me this:
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Now, obviously, there are quite a lot of artifacts but i actually find this shot quite interesting. Not least due to being able to discern virtually every one of the 8 pixel shifted layers. I quite like the effect. But of course, its utterly random depending on the wobble i had on the lens. The other Hi-res shot is just a muddle of blended layers with no real artistic merit at all. But it does have me wondering whether we could use the hi-res creatively even though Em5iii owners don't have HHHR available to us.
It goes without saying that in terms of Hi Res, there's a lot more to do here for me, a lot more to learn. Particularly out and about in the real world.
I cut the labels off my clothes but not for saving grams, just because I can't stand the contact of the labels on my skin. Maybe it's a sign that the E-M5.3 is for me
As a new E-M5 III owner, I can state with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, there are no cloth labels on that camera body. It is a lovely camera in every sense of that word.
The Oly menus are a PITA to learn, but once you learn them, they are as functional as any other. There are NO perfect menu systems. I say this not as a fan-kid of Olympus, but as a guy who has used a lot of cameras. There is a special place in Hell for menu designers of all stripes.
Would that Panasonic menu designers could create Olympus menus!
Excellent write up, Saladin. And given your appreciation for and extensive use of the GX8 and G9, your views on this camera have special merit to me, a Panasonic fan.
I am a big fan of Lumix cameras, but I have and have had several Olympus m4/3 cameras (earlier OM-D, E-PL3, E-PL5, E-P5, Pen-F). I still have a rarely used Pen-F and an E-P5.
Anyway, to my question. The GX8 is my favorite m4/3 camera to date. I've had mine for 4 years and haven't yearned for a new camera in all that time. Today, I have some attraction to the latest features (HHHR, Starry Focus, 7-stop IBIS, MyMenu, Min-Max Shutter speeds with Auto ISO, etc) and I am considering an EM1 Mk III. It's about the same size as a GX8, which is perfect for me. It's also smaller than the G9, which I also appreciate, but as well-featured.
As a GX8 fan, how do you think the EM1 MkIII (I know you don't have one of these, yet anyway, but expect that you may have a good sense of it) would suit someone like me who loves the GX8, but is eager to add another camera with the latest features, yet is hesitant to go G9 due to the size of that camera?
As a GX8 fan, how do you think the EM1 MkIII (I know you don't have one of these, yet anyway, but expect that you may have a good sense of it) would suit someone like me who loves the GX8, but is eager to add another camera with the latest features, yet is hesitant to go G9 due to the size of that camera?
Interesting question. The closest I can come to a valid opinion is probably to relate my experience when I bought the G9. I made sure I handled both the Em1ii and the G9 before handing over the cash. The Oly is a bit smaller but I clearly preferred the feel of the G9. The Oly felt a bit angular, and because I'd already decided I was ok with a bigger mft body, the slightly bigger G9 made sense. It also had the joystick.
Obviously the 1iii now has a joystick so no worries there. But as a Gx8 lover, you'll probably scratch your head at the Oly Evf. In some ways apparently it's not even as good as the 5iii (which is fine but not great), let alone the better Panny ones.
Both brands make very very good camera's. Don't buy anything until you've played with the different models you're interested in.
I am considering an EM1 Mk III. It's about the same size as a GX8, which is perfect for me. It's also smaller than the G9, which I also appreciate, but as well-featured.
Wait, am I reading this right? The EM1 MkIII are two different cameras, in different sizes. I have the GX85 (about the size of a GX8) and it's considerably smaller than an E-M1. It's smaller than my E-M5 Mk III.
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Welcome back, viewers.....err....readers.
Intermittently over the last few weeks I made an attempt to see how the Em5iii would perform as a "Sports" camera. Mainly in terms of it's AF ability, of course. It was only sporadic and i had planned to do a fair bit more 'testing' prior to posting anything about it in this thread for your perusal. However, nature intervened. No, not a toilet break! Instead, Covid-19. Coronavirus. Sars-Cov-2. Whatever other convoluted nomenclature we've decided to hang on the little beastie. Yesterday, our State basketball association announced the halting of all senior and junior leagues for the foreseeable future. Effective immediately. My kids basketball teams had been my main idea to test the Em5iii. Further to that, the Australian Government have also ramped things up by declaring a ban on all non-essential meetings of more than 500 people. This means that top level Australian football now faces the prospect of playing in empty stadiums. At best. In reality, there are huge question marks over the season proceeding at all. Considering I used to shoot some of the Reserves matches for the Essendon Football Club, i had hoped to cover a few of their games with the 5iii and report back. This now seems very unlikely. At least in the short term.
So, i figured that i may as well just let everyone see a few shots, and share a few thoughts, from the little i have managed to do.
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Obviously, Olympus are not marketing the 5iii to sports shooters. Possibly to wildlife shooters, but not sports. They'll tell you that sports are not the raison d'être for their smallest "pro" camera, and instead we should be looking at the Em1x , and now the Em1iii . Which is all well and good. And dandy. And probably correct. Certainly, both of those models sport - err, no pun intended - upgraded features over the 5iii that likely make them more fit for purpose. But if one is to view the 5iii as a "do everything" type of device, then one needs to try to do everything with it. So i tried. And as it turns out, it's not totally lacking in sporting intent of its own.
My first foray was to my son's junior basketball game. On a whim, i equipped it with the 75/1.8 Oly lens. I decided that the fast-ish 1.8 would be an advantage over the 40-150Pro's 2.8 aperture. Correct, it was. Most basketball stadiums are poorly lit, and this one was one of the poorer members of an already poor genre. I also thought the 75mm focal length would open up some possibilities further away. Wrong. Well, no, not wrong. It did. But it restricted me to a certain type of shot from the sideline, mainly the kids dribbling out of the back half. Perhaps this was for the best given i was hoping to get a string of continuous shots to try the C-AF ability, but it meant dynamic shots under the ring were out. And finally, in my experience the 75mm isnt the quickest focussing lens in the MFT universe.
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Be all that as it may, i set the camera to mechanical shutter, continuous AF, +1 sensitivity and Low-speed drive. It's only a maximum of 6 frames per second in Low, but it does maintain continuous AF, which is clearly the point in a moving target environment. ISO was 3200, and i dropped shutter speed to 1/400. Yes, i know, this is way too slow for an ideal shoot of rapid moving competitors. But i was loath to crank up the iso any further. Perhaps it may be worth underexposing quite a lot and bumping it up later on the raw file. Something to consider.
But how did it go? Well, here's a sequence of 8 consecutive shots on which to ponder. All kept large to provide a decent view of sharpness (or lack of).
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There's a few things to note here. Firstly, ISO3200 on an MFT camera is ok, but it (literally and figuratively) can blur the lines between sharp focus and lack of focus. You lose some detail at this level of ISO, period. No point worrying about it, just accept it and move on. Secondly, 1/400 was unquestionably less than ideal. Far from it. There are obvious effects of movement blur in most shots. But having viewed the shots when i got home, i wasnt too displeased overall. On this sequence, It's held the focus pretty well for shots 1 (possibly a tiny bit back-focused, the pursuing player looks a tad sharper to my eye), 2 and 3. Shot 4 has some motion blur but is also focused behind the main action, the planted shoe is sharp. Shot 5 the plane of focus is still behind the player by a small amount. Shot 6 it has snapped back into focus, and in fact it has nailed focus on the ball. Now, this is important and would go on to become the main theme that raised its head constantly - in C-AF, the camera is only as good as the user. But conversely, its every bit as good as the user. If we cant keep a consistent AF point in the viewfinder, the camera won't keep a consistent AF point in our shots. It's that simple. And i won't pretend that i managed to keep the AF point in the middle of the players singlet for 8 consecutive frames whilst also panning......... Shot 7 is back focused, probably the worst of the bunch, and in shot 8 the camera has tried to drag the focus in but wasnt able to re-acquire the player. We may be close to minimum focus distance by this stage.
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Elsewhere on the day, I found that individual shots were fine. Like ALL sports photography, its always far far more about practice, technique and knowing the sport than it is about technical camera abilities. As a reference point, i used to shoot Australian Rules football with a Pentax dslr - not exactly renowned for their rapid AF systems - in single AF mode. Plenty of wonderful sports photographers can shoot with manual focus. I didn't take a lot of shots that day, but i left the game with a feeling that i would be far more limiting to myself than the 5iii would be, unless i learnt my way around the craft again.
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The next opportunity was another basketball game, unfortunately at the same venue. This time, i both shortened the focal length and opened the aperture by choosing the 42.5mm / 1.2 Nocticron. Whether i also increased the AF speed, i can't really say. I think the Noc focuses a bit quicker than the 75mm, but i'm far from certain. Such things are tough to quantify. If i had a choice, i'd love to get my hands on an Oly 45 Pro, presuming that it will be as quick as Oly can provide, but I don't have access to one.
I was able to drop ISO to 2500 and bump shutter speed to 1/640, much better figures all-round. Though i still look forward to a stadium where we can get even closer to the ideal. Here is a sequence of shots, again in C-AF but this time with sensitivity boosted to +2. The early shots in the sequence have been cropped to provide a larger view, gradually sliding to no crop as he filled the frame.
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I don't have a whole lot to say here, beyond the fact that i think the 5iii has done a pretty damn decent job tracking a fast drive across across 8 frames. The cropping in the early frames has accentuated the noise perhaps, but the focus is good. Once again, in C-AF , keeping the framing and therefore POF right is my job , not the camera's. I'll discuss Tracking AF in part two, that's a different beast altogether. Would the 5iii be my choice for paid, indoor sports photography? No. It wouldn't. But that's as much about ISO issues as it is about any perceived AF failings or frame rate inadequacy. And i'll say this - if i was asked to shoot local sports for the local paper to go to print, i could absolutely get what i needed with the 5iii. Or at least, if i couldn't, it would be entirely my fault. Which is really the point.
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