Olympus EM5.3 - Magenta cast on shadows

isin

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I am using EM5.3 for the last 6 months and I love it. I also own EM1.2 and one observation is that although they have the same sensor there are some changes in color management.

I see a magenta cast on shadows in EM5.3 files with natural profile and I don't like this. Especially when there are people in the scene, faces become too red for my test.

So to fix this I either use portrait mode (but image becomes softer and less contrasty) or I add green tint to +1 in WB.

Has anyone observed this color changes in EM5.3 comparing to older models? Ok, color preferences are subjective but I think red faces is a slight issue.

Check this sample with magenta on shadows on the left and +1 green tint on the right.

 

RAH

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So to fix this I either use portrait mode (but image becomes softer and less contrasty) or I add green tint to +1 in WB.
I don't understand - you mean if you take a portrait orientation image, it becomes softer and less contrasty? And also fixes the magenta problem? I don't know why this would be the case (becoming softer or fixing the color). I don't think I've ever heard of camera orientation affecting anything. I suppose that maybe the edges are different because you have less horizontal room vs vertical, but especially with 4/3 format, they are pretty close to the same (as opposed to regular APS-C 3/2). Sorry I cannot help more, but I am kind of mystified... :)
 

Growltiger

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He is referring to using the portrait profile instead of the natural profile. Nothing to do with orientation.

Looking at the sample photo I don't see anything very wrong with it. Having the same sensor doesn't mean getting the same result, as the JPEG processing system in each camera is different. Many people like rather more saturated images that show up colour variations more strongly. It's fine to adjust it to your preference.

But I'm wondering if you have calibrated your monitor (i.e. with a hardware device)? If you have not then it is really impossible for you to judge the colours accurately.
 

RAH

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He is referring to using the portrait profile instead of the natural profile. Nothing to do with orientation.

Looking at the sample photo I don't see anything very wrong with it.
Well, that explains that! :doh: I need to take a look at some of those settings, I guess (I usually try to get the most plain-vanilla jpgs I can get). I definitely wouldn't use any mode that gave me softer images just to get rid of what looks like a very small color difference compared to an earlier camera (I don't see much wrong with it either). Adding the +1 in WB seems like a good solution, I think, if it gives you what you want without hurting IQ. Of course, you could always use the RAW images.
 

isin

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I am editing my photos on Dell 27" 4k screen with 99.99% SRGB. Maybe this issue can not be distinguished in screens with 60-70% SRGB.

I do not consider this as a big issue, as I mentioned color test is subjective. It is more like an observation of how olympus changed the color management on the same sensor.

As I continue searching the differences I end up in dpreview comparison tool where color management changes are more obvious.

EM1X has more yellowish look. EM1.3 and EM5.3 have less saturation than EM1.2

Check this image:

 

John King

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I am editing my photos on Dell 27" 4k screen with 99.99% SRGB. Maybe this issue can not be distinguished in screens with 60-70% SRGB.

I do not consider this as a big issue, as I mentioned color test is subjective. It is more like an observation of how olympus changed the color management on the same sensor.

As I continue searching the differences I end up in dpreview comparison tool where color management changes are more obvious.

EM1X has more yellowish look. EM1.3 and EM5.3 have less saturation than EM1.2

Check this image:

DPR "raws" are actually JPEGs, converted from real RAW files using Adobe default settings in ACR - not something I would ever recommend.

sRGB colour space is both defective (unequal colour axes) and deficient (gamut is too small).

My monitor is calibrated, uses a 14 bit colour lookup table, has a 12 bit IPS panel, and displays 100% of an aRGB colour space. My printer is 16 bit and prints most of a ProPhotoRGB colour space.

I don't get magenta casts ...
 

isin

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DPR "raws" are actually JPEGs, converted from real RAW files using Adobe default settings in ACR - not something I would ever recommend.

sRGB colour space is both defective (unequal colour axes) and deficient (gamut is too small).

My monitor is calibrated, uses a 14 bit colour lookup table, has a 12 bit IPS panel, and displays 100% of an aRGB colour space. My printer is 16 bit and prints most of a ProPhotoRGB colour space.

I don't get magenta casts ...
Thank you for checking the images. Then I should callibrate my screen an check again
 

Growltiger

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The fact that your screen has about 100% sRGB is normal, only inferior screens are not - such as some laptop screens. Some more expensive monitors can exceed the sRGB colorspace allowing viewing of colours outside sRGB such as glowing neon lights, hi-vis jackets etc. An sRGB monitor can show only muted versions of those colours.

Your screen is not calibrated, and you can have no real idea what the colours should be when you edit. This doesn't matter to most people as the results are good enough but if you want to be sure of editing your photos with the right colours you should buy a calibration device. Here is an example of a basic device that does the job:
https://www.xrite.com/categories/calibration-profiling/chart-readers/i1display-studio
Monitors change as they age, so in a professional environment all the monitors are calibrated on a regular basis. I do mine just once a year.

The DPR results should be ignored completely, they are meaningless and bear no resemblence to the output from the JPEG engines in the cameras.

If you upload a larger image clearly showing what your monitor shows as a magenta cast, those with calibrated monitors can tell you if it is really there.
 
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b_rubenstein

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The EM-1 series cameras have more accurate JPG colors than the consumer cameras that have their JPG profiles tweaked for pleasing, colors. This is no different than back in the film days when film companies made consumer color films with punchy colors, and pro film with very accurate colors. Keep in mind that the various JPG profiles can be tweaked to give more or less accurate color settings. Lowering the contrast and saturation settings will generally give more accurate colors.
 

fortwodriver

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I can see it. I don't believe this is a camera to screen calibration issue, though.

This looks more like a less-aggressive hot-mirror filter on the E-M5.3 sensor. While it may be the same sensor, it may not actually be exactly the same if you factor in the UV/Hot-Mirror filter stack in front of it and its cover glass. It may not actually be programmed colour management you're seeing.

Remember back years ago when some of the AP Digicams produced purple fire when reporters took photos of burning buildings? That has come up again and again in less drastic levels throughout the evolution of digital photography.

What if you set the white-balance for both to "Sunny" and compare those, does it still happen? "Auto" can bodge in-camera colouring a bit from time to time. There may be a difference in the auto-white-balance programming between the two cameras, or even what the cameras saw the moment the photo was taken.


Are you using any kind of filter on the camera lens?
 

Mack

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I know zero about the E-M5 series, but I believe Olympus added the ability to fine-tune the color in the E-M1.2+ series where you can add/subtract a magenta/green as well as the amber/blue cast in a general setting someplace. Been a while, but I think the E-M1X had the ability first, and it was later added to the E-M1.2. I recall it surprised the Olympus USA tech support when I discovered the addition in some firmware update as I was having issues with WB then.

Wouldn't hurt to invest in a ColorChecker Passport (~$80-$100 https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-ColorChecker-Passport-MSCCPP-Photography/dp/B002NU5UW8 ) , create a DNG file using the (Free, although Adobe sign-up is now needed I see.) Adobe DNG Converter software or the one buried in Exposure X6 now, and take that DNG file and create a digital camera profile (DCP) using the ColorChecker Passport Camera Calibration software that could be called up when you do your RAW edits.

Still, no doubt you'll see see color differences between like cameras much as differences in exposure, focusing, etc. without some tuning to them to get them closer in agreement. Nature of mass production.

This might be informative on skin tone color oddities: https://petapixel.com/2014/10/01/colorchecker-how-to-get-perfect-skin-colors-with-every-camera/
 
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John King

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I know zero about the E-M5 series, but I believe Olympus added the ability to fine-tune the color in the E-M1.2+ series where you can add/subtract a magenta/green as well as the amber/blue cast in a general setting someplace. Been a while, but I think the E-M1X had the ability first, and it was later added to the E-M1.2. I recall it surprised the Olympus USA tech support when I discovered the addition in some firmware update as I was having issues with WB then.

Wouldn't hurt to invest in a ColorChecker Passport (~$80-$100 https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-ColorChecker-Passport-MSCCPP-Photography/dp/B002NU5UW8 ) , create a DNG file using the (Free, although Adobe sign-up is now needed I see.) Adobe DNG Converter software or the one buried in Exposure X6 now, and take that DNG file and create a digital camera profile (DCP) using the ColorChecker Passport Camera Calibration software that could be called up when you do your RAW edits.

Still, no doubt you'll see see color differences between like cameras much as differences in exposure, focusing, etc. without some tuning to them to get them closer in agreement. Nature of mass production.

This might be informative on skin tone color oddities: https://petapixel.com/2014/10/01/colorchecker-how-to-get-perfect-skin-colors-with-every-camera/
Mack, it's been there ever since my E-1 ...

Apart from being in the menus, it's also available on the SCP. It can be changed per setting, or globally.

I found it very useful with my E-30, as that camera often produced cyan skies, and I loathe cyan skies!
 
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mfturner

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I've been happy with the color cast on my m5.3 for what it's worth. I haven't compared against another current Olympus body critical though, and white balance is a variable that affects every jpeg. Lens can affect color cast too, you might already be controlling for that by swapping to use the same lens though.
 

isin

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Thank you for your replies. I am going to buy an xrite or spyderx to be 100% sure for my screen's callibration. And after that I will post new comparisons.
 
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