Olympus E-P1 -EPL2

[leeh]

I am writing this as I am getting a bit confused in that, are these Cameras made for the 'Camera collector' OR for people who like taking Photos?
1st olympus brought out the E-P1 then EP2 then came the EPL1 and now we have the EPL2 and to top it all off one person on a thread on here Says he don't want either, he's waiting for the EPL2 ''PROFESSIONAL'' model coming out in the summer What in the hell is it all about? Are these really improvements being made over previous Pen series/models being introduced or are they the same Pen models but sales gimmicks or just whistles and bells, Isn't it said that (it's not the camera that take a good picture, it's the person behind it who operates the shutter button )
Olympus are releasing these improved models of the Pen series not over a couple of years but within months of one another, I have a EPL1 but I am thinking to myself I should just of went out and bought the first PEN EP1.

 

[Pelao]

A couple of things may be at work here:

1. The M4/3 format is relatively new and evolving. Olympus is trying to make sure it has segments covered and responds to feedback quickly in order to make sure the format gains traction. M4/3 is big in Japan and they will take feedback from the market seriously.

2. If you line up the specs of the cameras you mention, there are in fact some serious differences between them. In my view, these are more than tweaks. Except of course the rumoured Pro model - we don't yet know anything about it.

 

[leeh]

A couple of things may be at work here:

1. The M4/3 format is relatively new and evolving. Olympus is trying to make sure it has segments covered and responds to feedback quickly in order to make sure the format gains traction. M4/3 is big in Japan and they will take feedback from the market seriously.

2. If you line up the specs of the cameras you mention, there are in fact some serious differences between them. In my view, these are more than tweaks. Except of course the rumoured Pro model - we don't yet know anything about it.

Hello Pelao,

To me, in theory what you are saying is that the Pen models that come before the EPL2 are in-fact 'obsolete' models, with taking in consideration that the cameras still works perfectly but take 'inferior' photos/pictures, or is it you mean that these Serious differences in specs are only in these cameras to help us take the pictures/photos more easily

So, can I ask the question that, the EP1 is as good as the EPL2, they both take exactly the same quality of picture/photo.

 

[ill_dawg]

About the differences:

the e-p1 cannot use the EVF. This is important to some people.

The e-p1&2 don't have a built in flash, this is important to some people as well.

The e-pl1 doesn't have control wheels, and has a slower max shutter speed. This is also important to some people.

The upcoming pro spec model is supposed to be weather proofed, which I would personally really like as I travel a lot.

Nobody is saying that any ov the cameras are obselete, just different models are right for different people. They all take great pictures, but because of price/features/controls, one might be better than another for one person's needs. Horses for courses, to each his own, etc.

Of course there will always be people who need to have the latest and greatest, but with the pens being so new it seems like there's a bit more of goldilocks finding the right porridge through trial and error here.

 

[Ray Sachs]

As ill dawg said, there are real differences. Does that mean that I can take better pictures with one than with another? Only in fairly extreme cases, but some make the process a whole lot easier and more enjoyable than others. Which counts for a lot.

The PL series, so far, has slightly better image quality than the supposedly higher end P series. Its nothing that matters to me for real world shooting, but it is there and it seems to matter to some. For me, the biggest differences are the ability to use the VF-2 viewfinder (which only the ep1 lacks) and having dials rather than buttons to operate the controls (which only the epl1 lacks, with the epl2 having one dial rather than two on the ep1 and 2). The flash means nothing to me, the remote shutter release means almost nothing to me, the top shutter speed doesn't matter much to me, and some of the other little differences mean nothing to me (although they might to others), but the evf and the layout of the controls mean a LOT to me.

Since the ep2 was the only model that BOTH had control dials and could use the vf2 when I was buying a camera, its the one I got (after owning the epl1 briefly first). Today, I might get the EPL2 instead because it solves most of the limitations of the ep1 and epl1 and costs less than the ep2. As it is, I probably won't be swayed by minor improvements in IQ and won't buy another camera for these changes. But, technology is improving and some very useful features may make me buy another camera in the next year or two. First, contrast-detect autofocus speed and accuracy seems to be improving by a LOT with the GH2, so I expect future cameras to match or better that. This is a pretty real functional difference for some types of photography. Second, I'd really love to have an articulating rear screen so I can shoot from waist or belly level and actually see what I'm shooting, rather than just framing on instinct. So if Olympus or Panasonic comes out with a model that incorporates the GH2 levels of AF with an articulated rear screen in a Pen style camera, I'm all over it. It would make the process of taking pictures that much more enjoyable and I would probably get more shots and miss less than I do today, so it would be a real change.

Sometimes the latest and greatest is just a matter of small improvements. Sometimes, its a matter of big improvements to a given photographer, given that person's preferences. That's how I make my decisions. I neither buy the latest and greatest BECAUSE its the latest and greatest, or decline to buy the latest and greatest BECAUSE its the latest and greatest.

There are differences. Which ones matter to you is for you to decide...

-Ray

 

[Bill Gordon]

I to have concerns over the speed in which Olympus and Panasonic are producing new models. It would appear that the originator of the 4/3rds concept has been highjacked by others and is trying to get ahead of the pack...without success. Olympus has a history of innovation and well constructed cameras starting for me with the E-10/20 which led to the E-1..in my estimation the best camera that they have made. All of these new models leading to the mu system are loaded with software that the normal person would never use. Unfortunately all the manufacturers are on this same path attempting to keep their margin of users and poach from the others. It is a far day from the film camera and the wet darkroom where you did all your fiddling and filtering, burning in masking out.....those were the fun days. Yes, I am an old timer going way back, and I am finding that all the menus are getting larger and more complicated. I don't think that the addition of this extra stuff makes you a better photographer nor does it provide the ability to capture the moment ..all that is strictly under the command of the person behind the camera.

It is like oil......it is all about money and power!!

 

[BAKatz]

I just bought a Pen EES online and it works great....it's far from obsolete....either you can use your camera or you can't...i'm still learning my EPL1...though it would be nice if OLY offered some sort of trade up since many PL1s are less than a year old...

 

[JCD]

A couple of things may be at work here:

1. The M4/3 format is relatively new and evolving. Olympus is trying to make sure it has segments covered and responds to feedback quickly in order to make sure the format gains traction. M4/3 is big in Japan and they will take feedback from the market seriously.

2. If you line up the specs of the cameras you mention, there are in fact some serious differences between them. In my view, these are more than tweaks. Except of course the rumoured Pro model - we don't yet know anything about it.

absolutely agree

 

[leeh]

I to have concerns over the speed in which Olympus and Panasonic are producing new models. It would appear that the originator of the 4/3rds concept has been highjacked by others and is trying to get ahead of the pack...without success. Olympus has a history of innovation and well constructed cameras starting for me with the E-10/20 which led to the E-1..in my estimation the best camera that they have made. All of these new models leading to the mu system are loaded with software that the normal person would never use. Unfortunately all the manufacturers are on this same path attempting to keep their margin of users and poach from the others. It is a far day from the film camera and the wet darkroom where you did all your fiddling and filtering, burning in masking out.....those were the fun days. Yes, I am an old timer going way back, and I am finding that all the menus are getting larger and more complicated. I don't think that the addition of this extra stuff makes you a better photographer nor does it provide the ability to capture the moment ..all that is strictly under the command of the person behind the camera.

It is like oil......it is all about money and power!!

Thanks everyone who has replied so far it's much appreciated

Now, to me I recon Bill is running much closer to the truth! (Good on ya Bill) also when he says about menu's being loaded up with things a normal person would never Use (that being people like myself), So going back to the EP1-EPL2, is all this extra gadgetry in the EPL2 making it easier to take photos/pictures, do it take a better quality photo/picture? In my view all these so say advancements over the last 24 months or so could of all been put into and onto the EP1in the very beginning, having the latest pen EPL2 will not give you a better Quality picture/photo.
So why buy the latest EPL2 ? this is without discussing what happens when you attach a Top notch quality lens to the inferior out dated EP1.

 

[ZephyrZ33]

Like someone mentioned, it's a fast growing segment.

I wouldn't have dropped 1000 bucks on a m43 PEN when they were first introduced, but Olympus found a way to cram more technology in a more reasonable package. My EPL1 was out the door for a little over 400 bucks.

The EP1, EP2 and EPL1 will always be great cameras with the potential to take good pictures...but they have to adapt to their growing consumer base.

The only person who would have a headache over this is someone who always has to have the latest and greatest.

 

[Orientator]

I totally agree with

...
The only person who would have a headache over this is someone who always has to have the latest and greatest.

It's wonderful that there is continous development with new cameras as long as they are mature for the market. (no "banana" cameras). Why not releasing any developed improvements quickly, even if they are not revolutionary?

My E-PL1 doesn't get bad by having a successor!

STefan

 

[leeh]

The only person who would have a headache over this is someone who always has to have the latest and greatest.


Wow! that's definitely not me , I can guarantee that, Truth being is I try to live my life not getting ripped off.

I am only an amateur with regards these sort off cameras, it's seems the more I study this subject the more I believe that me buying the EPL1 is that I have been conned #1 by the manufacturer and #2 by the retailer/shop I bought it from, the shop did not tell me 2 weeks ago when I walked in the there that Olympus will be bringing out the new improved EPL2 in a weeks time, when I was handing my money over, and on this thread people are backing up Olympus with their so say improvements they are making with the Pen series,
To me it's all a big rip off

 

[Pap]

I’m not certain what is driving the decision to bring out one model after another? Certainly the argument could be made that Olympus feels it needs a “higher end” camera thus the “Pro” model to be released according to rumor. But what I do find just a little strange that in the models past the “upgrades” to them happened so fast. Almost seeming they knew they had a bit more to add but felt a need to keep marketing new models at every opportunity without waiting to sort out what they were working on.
Of course I’m wrong. I have to be.
Pap

 

[Hikari]

The camera companies update their models quickly because of the consumer. Consumers think that a new camera will be "better" than an old camera, even if "old" is six to twelve months. Don't blame the camera companies. It is much better for them the longer they can keep a model in production. The pictures mt E-P1 takes today are exactly like the ones it took when I bought it.

 

[leeh]

I’m not certain what is driving the decision to bring out one model after another? Certainly the argument could be made that Olympus feels it needs a “higher end” camera thus the “Pro” model to be released according to rumor. But what I do find just a little strange that in the models past the “upgrades” to them happened so fast. Almost seeming they knew they had a bit more to add but felt a need to keep marketing new models at every opportunity without waiting to sort out what they were working on.
Of course I’m wrong. I have to be.
Pap

NO your not wrong Pap.

Why don't we all face it, we are all getting ripped off , after all the Pen EPs have been called consumer models and us consumers have always been ripped off , also I heard them being called 'Beta' models, maybe when all the beta models are sold, empty warehouses, this is where the Pro model will step in, this will be the true Olympus Pen, it will have everything thats been tested on whats come before olympus

 

[phigmov]

I find talk of new models superceding the old to be confusing - at the end of the day you buy something because at that particular point in time it does what you need it to do.

If we all waited for the "next big thing" we'd never buy anything.

I'm a happy EP1 user but I also find that some of my best photos are coming from my second/third-hand (and seriously "obsolete" by m4/3 standards) OM-1&4, Pen FT, Trip35, Rolleiflex and Nikon F3 cameras.

New features certainly make the process of taking a picture easier but you can take a good picture with almost anything.

 

[ZephyrZ33]

The only person who would have a headache over this is someone who always has to have the latest and greatest.


Wow! that's definitely not me , I can guarantee that, Truth being is I try to live my life not getting ripped off.

I am only an amateur with regards these sort off cameras, it's seems the more I study this subject the more I believe that me buying the EPL1 is that I have been conned #1 by the manufacturer and #2 by the retailer/shop I bought it from, the shop did not tell me 2 weeks ago when I walked in the there that Olympus will be bringing out the new improved EPL2 in a weeks time, when I was handing my money over, and on this thread people are backing up Olympus with their so say improvements they are making with the Pen series,
To me it's all a big rip off

My apologies Leeh, I didn't mean to come off like I was criticizing you. Just making an observation, one in which I sometimes fall victim to. :smile:

Well, if you walked into my store I would establish rapport by telling you about the new model, then present you with the current, list the differences and let you consider the compromises. Definitely the retailer's fault, but at the end of the day you can't fault him for making room for new inventory.

If they didn't release an EPL2, we'd all be enjoying our camera all the same. I saved over 30% on something that's less than 10% better, and not even released yet. I don't feel like I got ripped off.

But I understand what you're trying to say. Premium car manufacturers do this all the time.

 

[Djarum]

I have an E-P1, and I recognize many of the short comings in the camera after shooting with for over a year with it. I don't buy camera's often, and when I bought the E-P1, I swore it would be another 4 or more years before getting another one.

However, the E-PL2 seems more a perfect camera I think for me:

- faster focusing
- better grip (I'll have to verify this in store, but it looks better for me)
- EVF capabale
- Better resolution screen

I'll have to wait for more reviews( and for the price to come down)

 

[russell]

Now, to me I recon Bill is running much closer to the truth! (Good on ya Bill)

Now, to me, how you think having built-in evocative music you can attach to pics is not a vital new feature is beyond me .

having the latest pen EPL2 will not give you a better Quality picture/photo. So why buy the latest EPL2 ?

It depends what you want it for. I want to buy a PEN mainly for using legacy manual focus lenses. From what I've been told, the EVF makes it much easier to do this. So yeah, the hit rate would be much higher with an epl2 vs an ep1. Even without an EVF, due to the higher-resolution LCD. Other people might find an on-camera flash indepensible, not to mention mood music .

I suppose it's a pity they couldn't have just got it right first time round, and also a pity that they are releasing models that still fall short of some features people have been requesting for some time -- but then again plenty of people would rather not wait. They're called early adopters, you're one of them, and new technology always works this way.

Edit to add: I feel for you though unwittingly buying the epl1 a week before epl2 came out-- I can see why you feel ripped off!

 

[penfan2010]

I find talk of new models superceding the old to be confusing - at the end of the day you buy something because at that particular point in time it does what you need it to do.

If we all waited for the "next big thing" we'd never buy anything.

I'm a happy EP1 user but I also find that some of my best photos are coming from my second/third-hand (and seriously "obsolete" by m4/3 standards) OM-1&4, Pen FT, Trip35, Rolleiflex and Nikon F3 cameras.

New features certainly make the process of taking a picture easier but you can take a good picture with almost anything.

I definitely agree with Phighmov; if you are confident about your ability as a photographer, have a solid understanding of the technical basics and know how to make photos that make YOU happy, you should be able to work around feature differences of various camera models, specially those as capable as the E-P1 or E-PL1. Granted there are those like pro photographers who need the absolute best range of technical features possible so they can meet most of the challenges each new assignment throws their way, but for someone like me who has been taking photos for 30 years as an enthusiast, part of the joy of photography is knowing how to work with or around the limitations of the camera you are using. Think about all the great photographs taken by the likes of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Eugene Smith and Alfred Eisenstaedt using cameras most would now consider obsolete.

Having a limited budget also helps me worry less about the far-too-frequent product launches; I bought a refurbished E-P1 kit last November for less than $400, primarily so I could use all the old manual focus film camera lenses collecting dust in my cabinets since I switched to digital. I would not have thought of upgrading the E-P1 until someone dropped it last December and broke the LCD. I was prepared to use it with the Oly 17mm and my Leica 35mm optical VF for the M3 for a few more months, but AMEX kindly covered the cost of the camera as part of their purchase protection plan so I used the money to buy a very good value second hand E-PL1 and VF-2 on this forum. I miss the control dials and retro design of the E-P1, and but do love the EVF in low light or when using longer MF tele-zooms.

Now, as a marketing professional, on the other hand, I would definitely take Olympus to task for a fairly unruly product line evolution---someone in their innovation and product development department needs a clearer view of how the line evolves. I love Oly cameras and have used them for 30 years. My worry is that they come up with too many little tweaks between versions of the Pen E series and therefore confuse and lose loyal users over time. That would be a shame.

Back to the point - I would leave Olympus to worry about how meaningful their upgrades are and focus on taking more photos with the equipment you have right now---a better camera doesn't necessarily make a better photographer.