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Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by D7k1, Jun 14, 2014.
If you are solidly in the Oly camp, how important is video to you?
I started this poll due to the weakness in the Olympus video in their cameras. I'm basically talking about the need for several frame rates and increased Mbytes rates in the codecs used. I love my EP5 but sometime early next year I'm going to buy a Gh4 if Olympus does not come out with better codecs in their cameras. While I want the Oly 300mm when released, I will have to buy a good OIS lens for run and gun video with the Gh4 even if I use a shoulder mount. I know that Oly has stated that they are not interested in Pro level video, but Pany, Canon, and Nikon (with the HDMI out for PRO level video) offer a key benefit that Oly doesn't (and most "real" video is still imaged from tripods, steadicams, or shoulder rigs so IBIS is not the issue nor is size). I'm just wondering what percentage of Oly's user base has an interest in getting at least a 4 1080P codec (2 NTSC / 2 Pal) with a 36 mbyte data rate in the next set of high end Oly cameras? Since this is a group of Oly users/fans, I thought it would be very interesting to see if this group of users agrees with the Oly management on video or if Pany (who own the MFT video market) has a competitive advantage that could cause a significant percentage of us to switch.
I am very much in the Olympus camp, have been since OM-1 days. I don't understand why Olympus does not give us proper codec and bitrates. I have purchased a GH3 and GH4 for video but it pisses me off to have to do so. Worse, I think that it is bad business decision for Olympus not to up their video game - think of increase of camera sales there would be with IBIS and proper video!
Liking Olympus and video both are not mutually exclusive.
I agree that it is not mutually exclusive, but you and I have the ability to have more than one camera and many don't. If you are seriously into video Olympus and can only afford one camera, Olympus is probably not your first choice, but it could be with just a few changes.
I shot a demo video using my EP5 and IBIS for a client, did a color grading (outdoor and indoor scenes) and I got 4 out of 5 very slow pans fine, but the fifth was junk due to the low bit rate. But for an in store weekly special video it could be great. I think IBIS could be fine for the normal length of a scene for most industrial videos or even reporting, but the codecs really need the upgrade for it to be feasible IMHO. why not dump the consumer auto/scenes if they need more ROM room on the top end cameras?
Good point, one that I entirely agree with. Olympus has not done either itself nor its customers any favors with their current strategy.
I recall an interview with the Olympus president from about a year ago, the jist of what he said on the topic of video was something along the lines of....hey, we don't do video because we want to be seen as a serious stills camera maker.
A ridiculous position if you ask me, he basically made it sound like they would in future continue to withhold commonly available video features simply because of some kind of outdated idea that a single body that does both really well is somehow a lesser stills camera (a misconception that is common here too).
Fact is, there are plenty of amazing stills cameras out there that also have really fine video features too and it seems Olympus may be, to some extent at least, missing out on the growing 'hybrid' market.
It would be brilliant though, a camera with Panasonics video chops and the Olympus 5 axis IBIS
Have to say as a newcomer to actual proper camera cameras - video was by far the biggest letdown, and I'm not just talking about Olympus here, it's pretty much everyone as far as I can see except maybe panasonic, with samsung/sony at the outside. Everyone else seems to be stone dead. If I was watching my business get eaten up by phones and tablets I would probably look into making hardware a lot more capable than phones and tablets at video as, you know, kind of a big priority. But they aren't, and amazingly, they're actually even worse at video than a tablet in many ways. Completely blows me away that they've let it happen.
It's not just the lack of quality and video options in Oly's m4/3 cameras, it's also that a number of point and shoot cameras do better video than Oly's m4/3 cameras. I've seen better video from Oly's own TG1 and TG2 cameras, so at the very least they could have added better video quality to their current models of m4/3 cameras.
I believe Olympus has now come around from this opinion and will change its ways in the future. I saw a video about a couple months back (wish i could find it and link it now) but it was a high level Olympus employee saying that changes and improvements to video are coming in the future.
Even though I do video as part of my job I listed video as only being of casual importance. The reason is that I prefer true camcorders for video work especially anything serious. We have two Panasonic AF100s at work and they are GREAT! The audio ability is very good with simple and instant adjustability, input coming in via XLR connectors. I can sync the cameras for timecode and they have many other pro features such as adjustable zebra lines, waveform/vectorscope and built in ND filter. Once you use these functions you will have a hard time going back! So on a camera that I use for stills I might use it from time to time for video but it isn't that important to me.
Olympus has said that video is a top priority: http://www.43rumors.com/video-will-be-top-priority-for-olympus-guest-post-by-vincent-verwei/, but that said, I believe that the video isn't that bad by a long shot. I showed my friend the video I recently shot for him as part of a stills job and he was very impressed. Shown on a 40 HD LED TV, the footage looked excellent, and that was pretty much out of camera.
But anyone that's into serious video is going to put a lot more money into their gear than just a body and lens or two, they are going to kit themselves out with additional audio, screens, storage, gimbals and a myriad of extra accessories, not to mention some serious computing gear and software. I've been doing a lot of research into the likes of 4K video and it really requires a lot more than one would anticipate. I watched a great video the other day comparing a 5DMkIII (AVCHD) and BMPCC (ProRES) and what each can output and the effort required for quality results and it's quite an eye opener.
I don't agree with you at all. I did see your video and I am glad that you like it. However, Oly's video is not up to par for the casual folks who shoot video without 4K, gimbals, rigs, etc. For the average guy who wants to shoot family videos, etc., Oly is sub-par. We are not even close to talking about pro video work. This is why the rest of the posters are disappointed with Oly's video efforts.
All I'm saying is that I don't find the video all that poor, and for one of the 58% with a casual interest in video, it's more than acceptable. Also, what's displayed on Vimeo isn't what the full quality video looks like either, nor are my shooting capabilities, editing etc up to a level that ensures everything is displayed optimally. If the 'average' guy finds Olympus video sub-par, then what are those people who find it OK, 'below average' photographers?
Maybe the 'average' guy shooting his family is expecting far more, for example, from the E-M1 than what this guy is able to do: http://www.eoshd.com/content/12010/olympus-om-d-e-m1-review. It's not all a land of milk and honey for him, but he doesn't consider it crap either.
I think that I could have chosen better phrasing in my post. No, the video is not poor, you can create nice videos with it. The issue is that the technical specifications are not competitive with other options in the marketplace, particularly compared with the other :43: player, Panasonic. Panasonic is even offering 4K in their new compact FZ1000. It is shame that Olympus is making us choose either or when with a relatively minor tweak we can have both. As Joe has pointed out in this thread, if Olympus stepped up their video game their cameras would be KILLER with IBIS.
If you are shooting static/slow moving scenes and doing some good post production work, you can get "OK" videos from Olympus cameras. My only real comparison is with my D7000/D7100. I installed the NikonHacker hack on the D7000 and now get a 62 mbyte recording. Rolling shutter is still a problem but for a still or slow moving scene the quality is very, very good. The D7100 runs only at the 24 mbyte data rate but the video is very smooth and rolling shutter is significantly reduce and of course the clean HDMI out is "the real deal". I'm waiting until spring and then I'm getting a "movie" body, If Oly releases a new EP camera and it has, say a 32 mbyte data rate and 24,24, 30, 60 1080P (4k would be nice), it could be in the $1000-$1300 dollar range and I'd be all over it. If by February nothing is on the horizon I'll look at what other 4K options are in the Pany/Nikon camp. The great camera shoot outs (2010-13) at Zacuto are the best tests I've seen on video cameras and if you are even casually interested in video they are worth watching especially 2013. 60 fps 1080p with a high data rate and low frame rates is now the standard for a "very good" video camera, Oly should be there IMHO.
I agree and really don't get it at all. Surely adding a better codec which down samples the sensor readout to 1080p would not be that difficult? I love the video output when I'm shooting mid to closeup shots, especially with shallow depth of focus. I cringe when I look at any footage of wider shots, especially when anything is moving or the camera is panning (even slowly). The blocky pixilation and the horrible compression and sharpening artefacts just ruin the image.
Other manufacturers do much better with the same limited 20 / 24 Mbps bitrates that Olympus also uses. Also, why did Olympus end up with a crappy Digital Teleconverter mode rather than using a straight 1080p crop similar to the ETC mode that Panasonic features? They also could have implemented focus peaking in video like Panasonic.
So why don't I buy a Panasonic and why do I have an E-M5 and E-PM2? I am really close to swapping out to a GM1/GX7 but for the Olympus 3/5-axis IBIS. I don't even really use IBIS for still shooting as I mostly take pictures of my kids and I need a fast shutter speed anyway to avoid motion blur. However the IBIS is killer when it comes to shooting steady video without a tripod. I haven't had the same success at stable video with my Panasonic 35-100 OIS and I know what shaky video can look like when I use my E-PM2 (IBIS on that camera is off as is useless).
I'm actually edging to replacing my E-M5/E-PM2 with two used/onsale E-P5, just to have two bodies with IBIS. I'll see what Photokina promises, but I'll jump to Panasonic if they offer IBIS in video or stay with Olympus if they improve the video.
Has anyone compared video in the E-M10 vs E-M5/E-P5? Andrew Reid at EOSHD says that the video has improved in the E-M1. I assume that the E-M10 uses the same newer image processing and higher bitrate?
I would argue that you can produce great video with a lesser/minimal setup. This would be excellent for documentary-type or news gathering video, B or crash cam, shooting without permits, etc. The GH4 has most of the advanced video features you would need - good codec, picture profiles, zebras, peaking, etc. Add a fairly modern laptop and a program like Final Cut X for $300 and assorted plugins or grading/coloring software (as needed), educational material (such as lynda.com), and lots of time to learn/experiment and you can deliver pretty good video.
That is what drives me nuts about Olympus. They have cameras and native lenses that produce beautiful JPEG images and lovely colour. They have the stabilisation BUILT-IN to the camera, so less need to lug around tri/monopod, gimbals, rigs, etc. But they are leaving out a huge market - look at the hype (at least in video circles) about the GH4 - by having a really weak codec and are very light on video features.
I do agree there is much more work to producing quality video than shooting stills. Also the storage requirements and the learning curve (editing, camera movement, shot sequencing, lens selection, shot coverage, sound) are much higher too.
Look what you can do with a lot of experience and creative sense, colour grading, a GoPro, and a phantom (for camera movement). Really looking forward to Philip Blooms GH4 complete review when it comes out: http://philipbloom.net/2014/06/06/kohyaonoi/
I'm not arguing that the E-M1 is the best video/stills camera around, the Panasonic trounces the E-M1 when it comes to video. As mentioned in that last link, it's not the lack of 4K that's the issue, more the lack of frame rate options and maybe the bitrate, both of which could possibly be improved via a firmware update. I've watched some 'average guy, family videos' recently on YouTube shot with 5D MkIIs and I don't think that the camera makes the videographer, most would probably have done better with a GoPro. Philip Bloom also had an earlier article here: http://philipbloom.net/2013/10/10/4kraw/.