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Giiba

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... I often find myself "reverse cycling" the power, turning it off and then on again.
I find this so annoying I always turn my camera off. No matter what I set the auto off time to it seems I always take 30secs longer before my next picture, meaning I bring the camera up expecting it to pop awake but instead I have to pull it away and cycle the power switch...

Ultimately, with liveview cameras (ie m43, etc) the limit is on time. You can shoot 2000 pics per hour or 20, but regardless you will get about 2hrs of the camera being powered on. When I go backpacking away from power sources I always turn the camera off and I can get 5+ days per battery.
 

Matt Drown

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From a different thread, EM1.2:

I have sleep set to 60 seconds, LCD to 30 seconds, and Auto-Power-Off to 1h. All under Gear-J2. I also turn off the EVF/LCD auto detect, and just use the EVF. However EVF VS LCD power consumption is about the same, turning off the auto detect results in less time being on if you have it around your neck though, because you aren't triggering activity as it bounces around.

I think these settings are almost default, but works well. The camera wakes from sleep with a 1/2 press of the shutter button, which I do when I bring the camera to my face from the side of my body, and it wakes in 1/10 to 2/10ths of a second, very rapidly. If I've left it on for an hour, it doesn't wake, you need to flip the power switch.
 

Matt Drown

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And what are you basing that on? I have always read that the EVF is a bigger energy user than the back LCD for Oly cameras. Do you know something different?
Nothing empirical, just street/travel shooting in cities and walking around.. It's quite possible that one is "much" more of a battery use than the other, but my rough feeling is that they are about equal.
 

Michael Meissner

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And what are you basing that on? I have always read that the EVF is a bigger energy user than the back LCD for Oly cameras. Do you know something different?
It depends on camera to camera, and what type of display is used both for the rear display and for the EVF, and what the refresh rate is. Now, back in the day, the E-pm2 camera with the add-on VF-2 viewfinder, it was true that the VF-2 consumed a lot more energy than the rear display.

At the time I speculated that the two main reasons were that the VF-2 refreshed at twice the rate as the rear display, and on the E-pm2, the EVF had more pixels than the rear display. Later cameras upped the pixel count for the rear display, so I imagine things might be different (or not).

However, lets actually measure it. I hooked up my E-m1 mark I with the HLD-7 battery grip and 12-40mm f/2.8 pro lens, removed the batteries and fed 9v power via the external power cable. The E-m1 uses a TFT LCD viewfinder and TFT LCD rear display. I got 9v power using a USB -> 9v booster and I used a battery that I know can provide enough power, and I used a USB volt meter and ammeter:
  • Looking through the viewfinder using my normal settings, the power level goes between 0.68 amp and 0.69 amp (at 5v);
  • Looking through the rear monitor using my normal settings, the power level goes between 0.71 amp and 0.72 amp (at 5v).
I'm ignoring the spike that the E-m1 does every few seconds that pushes up the amperage on both settings, and only looking at the 'normal' settings.

Next I tried my G85, 12-40mm lens. Because of plug issues, I used a different USB -> Panasonic adopter to the G85 (but same battery and USB meter). The G85 has a lot more variability than the E-m1 mark I. The G85 uses an OLED viewfinder and a TFT LCD display.
  • Looking through the viewfinder the normal power level goes between 0.71 to 0.79 amps for the OLED viewfinder (at 5v);
  • Looking through the LCD the normal power level goes between 0.69 and 0.77 amps for the TFT display (at 5v).
So, the E-m1 mark I tends to use more power for the rear display, while the G85 tends to use more power for the EVF.

There are always various qualifiers:
  • I was just watching the ammeter, I didn't have a precise listing for the minimum, maximum, or average power draw (I really need to set this up);
  • I didn't play with monitor brightness level or refresh rates -- I just used my normal settings;
  • I was doing it as a quick test with the camera hand held, trying to keep the image constant, but it was hand held;
  • I initially forgot that the G85 has a tri-state value for the output (monitor only, EVF only, and use the eye sensor) -- I remeasured it making sure not to use the eye sensor setting;
  • I didn't test my E-m5 mark I which has a TFT LCD EVF and OLED rear display, as I had broken my HLD-6 earlier in the day.
Using electronic hobby displays, I tend to find that OLED displays I've checked use a lot more power than TFT displays, and the OLED display's power varies more depending on whether you are displaying a mostly white screen or a mostly black screen, while the TFT display tends to be more consistent, since the main power draw is the back light, and not the individual pixels.
 
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Dinobe

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Never put my EM5 off, except when putting it my bag. I switch it on when starting my hike/trip in the morning and just let it go to sleep between shots. It goes to sleep after 2 minutes and wakes up almost immediately after pushing the shutter...
 
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KBeezie

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Depends on what I'm doing. Usually if I'm out shooting leisurely I'll usually turn it off once I start walking again if I'm not holding the camera in my hand.

If I'm on a job, it almost never goes off except in between locations. The sleep is set for 5 minutes so it's rarely sleeping too soon, and would just be a touch of the shutter button to wake it.

Unlike some of my much older cameras (what I currently use is an already old E-M1 Mk1) from either sleep or power on, it takes next to no time to be ready.
 

PakkyT

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I hooked up my E-m1 mark I [snip]:
  • Looking through the viewfinder using my normal settings, the power level goes between 0.68 amp and 0.69 amp (at 5v);
  • Looking through the rear monitor using my normal settings, the power level goes between 0.71 amp and 0.72 amp (at 5v).
Thanks for the test. That does kind of point to not a whole lot of difference between the two. 30-ish milliamps is not a lot compared to the over all energy use, so reports on the E-M1 that the back LCD is less of a battery killer may be a lot of internet here-say.
 

Michael Meissner

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Thanks for the test. That does kind of point to not a whole lot of difference between the two. 30-ish milliamps is not a lot compared to the over all energy use, so reports on the E-M1 that the back LCD is less of a battery killer may be a lot of internet here-say.
One thing that is important in terms of power measurement is to turn off the eye sensor if you tend to keep your camera in sleep mode when using it on a neck strap. Otherwise, if you just hang the camera on your neck or shoulder, the eye sensor will see your body and think an eye is near by and switch to the EVF. Because it thinks the eye is near by, it will not go to sleep.
 

KBeezie

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Thanks for the test. That does kind of point to not a whole lot of difference between the two. 30-ish milliamps is not a lot compared to the over all energy use, so reports on the E-M1 that the back LCD is less of a battery killer may be a lot of internet here-say.
I was going to say something like "Because OLED is very low power", but noticed that the only Olympus camera I owned with an OLED display was the E-P3 (and E-M5i shortly after), the E-M1i uses an LCD display (as stated by Michael). Guessing the EVF is also LCD.

PS: Those numbers for EVF is that with 30fps or 60fps refresh?
 

Michael Meissner

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I was going to say something like "Because OLED is very low power", but noticed that the only Olympus camera I owned with an OLED display was the E-P3 (and E-M5i shortly after), the E-M1i uses an LCD display (as stated by Michael). Guessing the EVF is also LCD.

PS: Those numbers for EVF is that with 30fps or 60fps refresh?
Whatever the default is, presumably 30fps.

The Olympus E-m1 mark I/II, E-m5 mark I/II, E-m10 mark I, and E-m1x use a TFT LCD for the electronic viewfinder. I know the VF-2 uses a TFT LCD, but I don't know if the VF-3 or VF-4 did.

The Olympus E-m10 mark II/III and Pen-F use an OLED for the electronic viewfinder.

The E-m5 mark I used an OLED display for the read display (and TG-2). Most Olympus cameras since then use a TFT LCD display.

The simplest way to tell is to wear polarized sunglasses (not just dark glasses, but real polarized lenses), and then look at the EVF and LCD in both portrait and landscape orientations. If you can see the screen fine without it being obscured in both orientations (except for possibly being darker), it is likely an OLED screen. If one orientation is problematical (either it is completely dark, or about 1/2 the screen is obscured), then you likely have a TFT LCD display.
 

KBeezie

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...

The simplest way to tell is to wear polarized sunglasses (not just dark glasses, but real polarized lenses), and then look at the EVF and LCD in both portrait and landscape orientations. If you can see the screen fine without it being obscured in both orientations (except for possibly being darker), it is likely an OLED screen. If one orientation is problematical (either it is completely dark, or about 1/2 the screen is obscured), then you likely have a TFT LCD display.
Would explain why I could never use sunglasses (I always use polarized sunglasses if I do wear them) with my E-M5 Mk1 and E-M1 Mk1 on the rear display, but was fine with my E-P3 before then.
 

PakkyT

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may be a lot of internet here-say.
You sir, are a moron. It is HEAR-say. Jeez. (and I think it is actually one word now that I just looked it up)

One thing that is important in terms of power measurement is to turn off the eye sensor if you tend to keep your camera in sleep mode when using it on a neck strap.
I have always kept mine off simply because I rarely use the back LCD, so I just have mine set to always using the EVF and the sensor turned off. If I need to use the back LCD then I specifically hit the button (or tilt out the screen) to activate it.
 

KBeezie

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I have always kept mine off simply because I rarely use the back LCD, so I just have mine set to always using the EVF and the sensor turned off. If I need to use the back LCD then I specifically hit the button (or tilt out the screen) to activate it.
For me on the other hand, it's hard for me to use the EVF, especially when I'm doing street shooting with a tilt screen (the fully articulated screen is something I don't care for on the newer models, but I understand it's better for video). Since most people don't even notice or care with a camera at your waist, but the moment you either swing a screen out to the side, or up to your eyes, they're on guard.
 

PakkyT

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it's hard for me to use the EVF, especially when I'm doing street shooting
Another option is to use the Oi,Share app as your viewfinder. Then it looks like you are just checking your phone and you aim your camera in a completely different direction such as behind you are 90 degree to the side while looking down at your phone.
 

AussiePhil

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However, lets actually measure it. I hooked up my E-m1 mark I with the HLD-7 battery grip and 12-40mm f/2.8 pro lens, removed the batteries and fed 9v power via the external power cable. The E-m1 uses a TFT LCD viewfinder and TFT LCD rear display. I got 9v power using a USB -> 9v booster and I used a battery that I know can provide enough power, and I used a USB volt meter and ammeter:
  • Looking through the viewfinder using my normal settings, the power level goes between 0.68 amp and 0.69 amp (at 5v);
  • Looking through the rear monitor using my normal settings, the power level goes between 0.71 amp and 0.72 amp (at 5v).
I'm ignoring the spike that the E-m1 does every few seconds that pushes up the amperage on both settings, and only looking at the 'normal' settings.

Next I tried my G85, 12-40mm lens. Because of plug issues, I used a different USB -> Panasonic adopter to the G85 (but same battery and USB meter). The G85 has a lot more variability than the E-m1 mark I. The G85 uses an OLED viewfinder and a TFT LCD display.
  • Looking through the viewfinder the normal power level goes between 0.71 to 0.79 amps for the OLED viewfinder (at 5v);
  • Looking through the LCD the normal power level goes between 0.69 and 0.77 amps for the TFT display (at 5v).
So, the E-m1 mark I tends to use more power for the rear display, while the G85 tends to use more power for the EVF.
Nice set of measurements, always good when we end up with real numbers to play with.

Discounting the power losses in the 5v->9v inverter the worst case differential for the EM1mk1 is 0.2 of a watt that is 2/10 of a watt

now it would be interesting to know how much doubling the EVf refresh rate changes the power consumption along with min/max contrast rates.

It seems out of the box for both the G85 and EM1mk1 they are close enough that changing the sleep time to be shorter will give much better savings than selecting EVF v Screen.
 
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Bidkev

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Who said you can't teach old dogs new tricks? You can with this thread. :) I've been shooting m43 for 18months now and never realised that I could have full time evf. I always thought that the choice was full time screen or eye detect switching! :doh: Thanks to this thread, as a non-screen user, except to change settings, I have now turned the screen off and am full time evf. The other upside is that I now don't even have to carry reading glasses to change settings on the screen as I can do this through the evf with the diopter set to suit my eyesight :thumbup:
 

Michael Meissner

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Who said you can't teach old dogs new tricks? You can with this thread. :) I've been shooting m43 for 18months now and never realised that I could have full time evf. I always thought that the choice was full time screen or eye detect switching! :doh: Thanks to this thread, as a non-screen user, except to change settings, I have now turned the screen off and am full time evf. The other upside is that I now don't even have to carry reading glasses to change settings on the screen as I can do this through the evf with the diopter set to suit my eyesight :thumbup:
That works for Olympus. Once you set the option to disable the sensor, you always have to press the sensor switch button. Which is what I want.

While it works for shooting, unfortunately when you hit the review button, it always goes to the rear display, and you have to press the EVF/rear display switch button.

However when I got my first Panasonic camera (G85), I discovered that Panasonic had a different method. Sure they have a menu item for disabling the sensor, but that only works until you press the FN5 button. Once you press FN5, there are 3 states, EVF only, rear display only, and eye sensor. So if you want to switch from rear display to EVF and back, one of the times you have to press FN5 twice to skip re-enabling the eye sensor. Generally, when you are switching, you can check if the eye sensor is enabled by moving your fingers in front of the EVF to see if it switches.
 

PakkyT

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The other upside is that I now don't even have to carry reading glasses to change settings on the screen as I can do this through the evf with the diopter set to suit my eyesight :thumbup:
Now if we could only get Oly to make their cameras with a LOCKING diopter knob that isn't so easily rolled out of our preferred position, I would be thrilled.
 

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