Now Nikon is on the ropes?

Mack

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I'm wondering what may become of Sony if they change mounts, say the L mount (51mm dia.) or even larger than their current one which is pretty small in the throat. Nikon is sitting at 55mm (largest 35mm FF) and Canon at 54mm, but Sony currently is less with X @ 44mm and E @ 46.1mm. If they switch lens mounts again, it may anger their base unless they come up with some sort of adapter which might also affect image quality given their sensors are inset deeper than Nikon or Canon sensors. Nikon seems to be a little more forward thinking with their mount.

Sony also needs to fix their ergonomics and weatherproofing too else it may count against them.
 

rezatravilla

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I want to explore going Nikon in a few years if m43 really drops, but 1) they need to produce more compact lenses like Sony and their partners are doing, and 2) they need to be around!
Agreed. More compacts lenses with reasonable price too.
 

John M Flores

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Anecdote: Last March I was chatting with a professional motorcycle photographer whose work appears regularly in nearly every major motorcycle publication in the United States. He shoots Nikon DSLRs. I asked him if he's got plans to switch to the new Nikon mirrorless and he said that his gear still worked and had no plans to upgrade.

If you saw his large photography backpack, you might understand. He's likely got $10,000 plus invested in DSLRs and lenses that keep a roof over his head and puts food on the table. 85% of the volume of the backpack is lenses, so switching to a smaller body (and either use his current body with an adapter or go all-in with mirrorless lenses) isn't going to change the size of his backpack all that much.

It's just one datapoint, but I suspect that a lot of pros are sticking with their DSLRs and that a lot of the folks that are going Nikon mirrorless are either serious amateurs or the YouTubers that they watch (because switching systems is new content that can drive YouTube revenue).

I hope Nikon weathers the storm. I like their gear, mostly...
 
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If you saw his large photography backpack, you might understand. He's likely got $10,000 plus invested in DSLRs and lenses that keep a roof over his head and puts food on the table. 85% of the volume of the backpack is lenses, so switching to a smaller body (and either use his current body with an adapter or go all-in with mirrorless lenses) isn't going to change the size of his backpack all that much.
This ^^^^. Having a slightly smaller body doesn't really help in size and weight unless the lenses are also proportionally smaller. It may actually make things worse, as many of the smaller mirrorless bodies have terrible ergonomics.
 

pake

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To be completely honest... I wouldn't mind Nikon calling it quits right now. That would increase OM DS's chances of surviving 10x times. But that's not going to happen, so nothing to see here. :)
 

Sniksekk

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Haven’t read the entire thread, so this might be covered one or hundred times all ready, but with the decline of sales (camera houses) if this decline continues (I think it will), there has got to be at least one manufacturer throwing in the towel or or re-emerge like Olympus within a couple of years.
10 years ago, the annual sales was about 121 millions camera houses, declining to
25 millions 2017,
19,4 in 2018,
15,2 2019.
The writing is in the pudding.
The manufacturers ain’t set for this to continue.
Sales is about growing, not shrinking.
But the market is shrinking.
This can only end like Kodak.
I don’t think the industry will look anything like today in 2025.
 

Brownie

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Perhaps Nikon et al. should work with cellphone companies to include their lenses on phones. I think a Nikon, Zeiss, or Leica lensed cellphone would get a lot of attention. I can even see the marketing in my head. Product placement, logos on phones, Joining the legacy with the future.
 
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Perhaps Nikon et al. should work with cellphone companies to include their lenses on phones. I think a Nikon, Zeiss, or Leica lensed cellphone would get a lot of attention. I can even see the marketing in my head. Product placement, logos on phones, Joining the legacy with the future.
But those are like $30 lenses. That can't replace the $5,000 outlay by a prosumer every 8 years. And no smartphone manufacture is interested in a lens mount system for an inherently portable device.
 

Brownie

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But those are like $30 lenses. That can't replace the $5,000 outlay by a prosumer every 8 years. And no smartphone manufacture is interested in a lens mount system for an inherently portable device.
Not suggesting that, but there's no reason they couldn't provide a more premium lens. Several million $50 lenses will outdo a few thousand $5000 lenses every single time. And not to put too fine a point on it, those $50 lenses beat out no lenses, period.
 

John M Flores

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Not suggesting that, but there's no reason they couldn't provide a more premium lens. Several million $50 lenses will outdo a few thousand $5000 lenses every single time. And not to put too fine a point on it, those $50 lenses beat out no lenses, period.
High-end Sony phones feature Zeiss optics, a UI that mimics their cameras, and additional features when connected to a Sony phone. It's smart vertical integration that others should mimic.
 

SpecFoto

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I write this as a long term, almost 30 year Nikon only shooter, who added M4/3 back in late 2012 due to new travel and weight restrictions. The EM5/EM1 and tiny and compact f1.8 prime lenses were such a delight to carry and use, replacing my D700/D800 FF Nikon bodies and lenses on my overseas trips. It really opened my eyes as to what mirrorless cameras could do, even with a smaller sensor. I was excited to see what Nikon would bring with its mirrorless high end camera. Sony announced their A7 and A7R high MP bodies in late 2013, yet Nikon did nothing. I patiently waited for years but still nothing from Nikon except the N1 upgrades for a pocketable size system that, at least to me, seemed doomed to failure. Heck the sensor was even smaller than my EM1. So I just kept using my D800 when I needed the higher MP, but used M4/3 for pretty much everything else.

Finally in 2018 Nikon announced the Z6 & Z7. But what I saw was that the initial Z cameras were priced like Nikons high end DSLR cameras, but severely crippled by lack of features, supposedly to protect the DSLR market. The nail in the coffin (for me) with Nikon though was their lack of AF support for the Nikkor screw drive lenses, as I had 7. Nikon even today continues to sell AF screw drive lenses, like the 135mm f2 DC, 180mm f2.8D and 200mm f4 Micro with no new replacements in sight, yet they still refuse to put a AF screw drive motor into a mirrorless body, even though they did put the motor in the D7000 series. If they could add this motor to a $900 small and compact DX body, they surely could have added it to a $2,100 and $3,400 Z body. Or at least put out an adapter that had the necessary motor. Instead they left me, and the owners of 4 million Nikkor screw drive lenses hanging.......

So I went with a 24MP Sony A7III in 2018 and then replaced it with a 42MP A7RIII and could not be happier. The Sony AF and eye detect is really great and having 42MP is awesome. I am fine with shooting with both Olympus and Sony Mirrorless systems as each has specific uses and benefits, most times I carry both. Meanwhile Nikon 2 years later in late 2020 announces the series II of the Z6 7& Z7, with some minor upgraded features and it is the cameras they should have announced back in 2018. However the AF tracking is still not the excellent one in their DSLR bodies, but old school from their DX cameras and they still don’t offer 3rd party lens support, which is a huge advantage of owning Sony A7 bodies. Nikon it seems still does not get it and if they do indeed go out of the camera business it is 100% the fault of their management with their backwards and protectionist thinking, where their long time existing customers were put last as they fumbled around for 5 years in the rapidly changing camera market.
 
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Not suggesting that, but there's no reason they couldn't provide a more premium lens. Several million $50 lenses will outdo a few thousand $5000 lenses every single time. And not to put too fine a point on it, those $50 lenses beat out no lenses, period.
Current smartphone lenses are high-quality corresponding to the sensor size. It's probably not feasible more acuity can be provided in that form factor.

The dominant market for smartphones isn't photography anymore; it's video. The smartphone add-on lens market has already been tried and its a trinket industry relegated to repeat Kickstarters and eBay bargains.

Smartphones are eating the entire photo/video market up to US$1500. Their focal lengths, etc. capture 95% of vernacular image taking. The vast majority of users neither want nor need anything else.

That limits the entire optical and dedicated photography market to between 4 and 8 million units sold per year. In the consumer electronics industry, that's 1-2 suppliers. The only reason this industry hasn't consolidated is due to the quirks of the Japanese business regime and its regulatory environment given that pretty much the entire industry is based in Japan.
 

Robstar1963

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I write this as a long term, almost 30 year Nikon only shooter, who added M4/3 back in late 2012 due to new travel and weight restrictions. The EM5/EM1 and tiny and compact f1.8 prime lenses were such a delight to carry and use, replacing my D700/D800 FF Nikon bodies and lenses on my overseas trips. It really opened my eyes as to what mirrorless cameras could do, even with a smaller sensor. I was excited to see what Nikon would bring with its mirrorless high end camera. Sony announced their A7 and A7R high MP bodies in late 2013, yet Nikon did nothing. I patiently waited for years but still nothing from Nikon except the N1 upgrades for a pocketable size system that, at least to me, seemed doomed to failure. Heck the sensor was even smaller than my EM1. So I just kept using my D800 when I needed the higher MP, but used M4/3 for pretty much everything else.

Finally in 2018 Nikon announced the Z6 & Z7. But what I saw was that the initial Z cameras were priced like Nikons high end DSLR cameras, but severely crippled by lack of features, supposedly to protect the DSLR market. The nail in the coffin (for me) with Nikon though was their lack of AF support for the Nikkor screw drive lenses, as I had 7. Nikon even today continues to sell AF screw drive lenses, like the 135mm f2 DC, 180mm f2.8D and 200mm f4 Micro with no new replacements in sight, yet they still refuse to put a AF screw drive motor into a mirrorless body, even though they did put the motor in the D7000 series. If they could add this motor to a $900 small and compact DX body, they surely could have added it to a $2,100 and $3,400 Z body. Or at least put out an adapter that had the necessary motor. Instead they left me, and the owners of 4 million Nikkor screw drive lenses hanging.......

So I went with a 24MP Sony A7III in 2018 and then replaced it with a 42MP A7RIII and could not be happier. The Sony AF and eye detect is really great and having 42MP is awesome. I am fine with shooting with both Olympus and Sony Mirrorless systems as each has specific uses and benefits, most times I carry both. Meanwhile Nikon 2 years later in late 2020 announces the series II of the Z6 7& Z7, with some minor upgraded features and is the cameras they should have announced back in 2018. But the AF tracking is not the excellent one in their DSLR's, but old school from their DX cameras and they still don’t offer 3rd party lens support, which is a huge advantage of owning Sony A7 bodies. Nikon it seems still does not get it and if they do indeed go out of the camera business it is 100% the fault of their management with their backwards and protectionist thinking, where their long time existing customers were put last as they fumbled around for 5 years in the rapidly changing camera market.
I personally think that Nikon were quite fair to existing Nikon owners in providing full support for most if not all F Mount lenses (ie not supporting the screw drive lenses)

My understanding is that not all of their previous DSLR cameras supported screw drive so it is not really a significant change of policy
They quite rightly want to promote a new lens Mount in order to move forward with optical technology

By ALL accounts the Z Mount offers a better Mount for increased optical transmission with very low distortion, very sharp Z Mount lenses all of which seem to be very highly rated

I believe that the majority of Nikon owners will be happy enough to have only non screw drive F Mount support

Having said all that and merely trying to be fair to Nikon by mentioning the above - they did make serious mistakes ie

1. Releasing a camera system (Z6/Z7) for which potential customers would very likely include PRO, Semi PRO and enthusiasts with only 1 card slot. Compounding this was that the slot was XQD format which are far more expensive
Most potential buyers of the Z system would have expected dual cards slots especially at the price point.

2. There was no facility for a fully functional battery grip on the original Z6/7s - no contacts were built into the base of the camera - this I have to say was borderline laughable on a camera system aimed at those buyers Ive already highlighted

At a time when Nikon were already losing their grip on the market they needed to release a camera with every feature you would want and need at the price point to ‘ blow the opposition out of the water’
If they had done this they may have sold far more cameras which in turn would have meant far more Z Mount lenses being sold and a far better bank balance

As it was many potential buyers including current or now ex Nikon users looked elsewhere. A fine example of why not to short change your potential customers when your company is already struggling and you can I’ll afford a flopping product line

I recently purchased a Nikon Z6 as I wished to try FF for low light speedway events amongst other things
I was quite happy to buy a Z6 and a 70-200 f2.8 S (Z) lens as I got a huge discount and am quite happy to compromise on those failings at the price I paid (effectively about £1150 for the Z6 body) but I would never have considered a Z6 at full original price (over £2000 if I am correct) any more than I would pay £2600 for a Canon R6 which despite having superb autofocus has no top screen vs the Z6/7

The Z6/7 did have other features in their favour including a superb EVF, high quality weather / dust sealing, great ergonomics, great interface and good build quality (apparently dodgy rubber grip notwithstanding)
I for one am very happy with my Z6 at the cost

Nikon can hopefully survive but it’s certainly not looking good with Covid adding to it’s already floundering circumstances

Like Olympus, Nikon was always in my eyes a highly respected manufacturer which was one of my reasons for buying into the Z system

Looks like I am now in to two dying systems - M43 and Nikon - cest la vie :doh::p:rolleyes::thumbup:
 
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