Not satisfied with m43

[toyanucci]

Posting a pic I took a few hours ago. With proper lighting the em1 gives great results (As do all cameras). I think part of my issue is the support for olympus raw files in Lightroom...RAW files are very bland and washed out but with some coaxing the colors really do pop. I paid attention to the autoprocessing that Lightroom was doing as well. I'm pleased with this image.

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[toyanucci]

Yes, there is ugly micro noise everywhere, with more chroma in the dark areas. Here are my attempts with Darktable:

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raw denoise: 0.4
non-local: all defaults
profiled x 2: two instances, one for chroma, one for luminance, hand tuned

There is no sharpening in this images. I can add sharpening rising the threshold a little until it does not affect the noise.

It took me no time for the first two corrections, and a few minutes for the last one. I'd say I could use any one of these as default "denoise" for all my pictures and spend some extra time only where required. There is still a little noise but I prefer it like this.

Didn't know about this program (though I do have Topaz Denoise), but the results look pretty darn good to me! I'll check it out. Does it allow for batch processing?

 

[A2Alex]

Toyanucci, thanks for posting some files.

I just want to offer my 2cents on switching systems. If you decide that Olympus isn't working for you, I would strongly recommend simply returning to Canon. Switching to another manufacturer like Fuji or Sony will consume time and money. If you don't have the time or inclination to develop an Olympus workflow you're happy with, when will you have time to sell your gear, research and acquire a third system, and learn to work with it?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with reverting to something that already worked for you, I'd just be cautious about assuming that something new will hold all the answers for you.

 

[Klorenzo]

Didn't know about this program (though I do have Topaz Denoise), but the results look pretty darn good to me! I'll check it out. Does it allow for batch processing?

Yes it does. You can also copy and past a group of edits from a picture to others or save these as "styles" to reuse those later. It's a Lightroom free open source alternative.

 

[rezoguitar]

If you don't like the Adobe profiles/colors (Camera Calibration tab) you may consider researching any number of the threads on the Huelight profiles.

As I remember they were $10 for 4 (std, lo, med, high).

 

[Luckypenguin]

Oversharpening and not masking increasing the appearance of noise; Only took 37 more posts to get back there.

The biggest contributors to noise are usually:

- Underexposing, requiring the files to be pushed during processing,
- Using higher than necessary ISO values (similar effect as above),
- Excessive sharpening, combined with...
- Not using a sharpening mask.

Smetimes taking the scenic route is more fun :smile:

But seriously, my experience with Canon APS-C raw files was that they can take more sharpening than Olympus or Panasonic, but they also need more sharpening and so the balance of sharpness and noise isn't much different in the end product where it matters. It could be a case of different levels of in-camera raw processing as well as processing software equalising any technical differences that exist.

 

[kevinparis]

glad we are all on a more positive note

think there are a couple of take aways from this dialogue

1) If you are going to post a 'sky is falling on my head' type post at least provide some actual evidence at an early stage... I understand the OP had specific travel based time constraints... but posting a 'its gone to hell in a handbasket' post with a provocative title and not backing it up with evidence is a recipe to get people riled on any forum, even one as even tempered as this.

2) Not all RAW convertors do the same job for a specific camera... The RAW format is different for every manufacturer, and often indeed for each camera model. Only the manufacturer actually knows what their actual RAW file ( eg the basic digital info from the sensor) actually means.

They don't share this information openly with the wider world... only their own software reflects their intended interpretation. Apple, Adobe, Capture 1, Darktable and all the others have to reverse engineer the data and come up with their own interpretation.. Some go with trying to replicate as best they can the manufacturers wishes in terms of sharpness, noise reduction and colour, others deliver a more plain vanilla file that has as much of the original data as possible with minimum enhancement, leaving the final choices up to the photographer

3) If you want a realistic answer to a problem, at least provide an example not a vague opinion... one person's noise is another mans gritty realism.. one persons tack sharp look is another's sterile emptiness... as soon as the OP posted his file, we could all contribute in a meaningful way



K

 

[peterpix]

you don't like m43s then don't use it. don't bore us with you problems. Those of us who like m43s accept what it is.Go play on the DSLR world!

I wrote this post for those out there considering m43. Do your homework first and make sure it suits your needs before going all in! I will miss the size of the em1 it's really the perfect size but would benefit immensely if it had a apsc sensor. I will miss the focus accuracy and speed as it was unparalleled! I never missed focus, not even one time.[/QUOTE]

 

[ApGfoo]

Toyanucci, thanks for posting some files.

I just want to offer my 2cents on switching systems. If you decide that Olympus isn't working for you, I would strongly recommend simply returning to Canon. Switching to another manufacturer like Fuji or Sony will consume time and money. If you don't have the time or inclination to develop an Olympus workflow you're happy with, when will you have time to sell your gear, research and acquire a third system, and learn to work with it?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with reverting to something that already worked for you, I'd just be cautious about assuming that something new will hold all the answers for you.

There's a reason why he left in the first place. Experimenting with Fuji and Sony will consume time and money in the relative short term but long term he will know which system will work best for him.

 

[kevinparis]

not really a positive contribution to the debate

K

you don't like m43s then don't use it. don't bore us with you problems. Those of us who like m43s accept what it is.Go play on the DSLR world!

I wrote this post for those out there considering m43. Do your homework first and make sure it suits your needs before going all in! I will miss the size of the em1 it's really the perfect size but would benefit immensely if it had a apsc sensor. I will miss the focus accuracy and speed as it was unparalleled! I never missed focus, not even one time.

[/QUOTE]

 

[zathras]

In Lightroom, at least in my one, under Camera Calibration you can choose from Adobe Standard, which to my eye looks hideous. You can also choose from Camera Neutral / Muted / Portrait / Vivid - all of which look to me to be similar to the in camera settings you can choose from. This may help... ?

 

[broody]

IMO it's Lightroom default settings that suck for M43. I have issues with it too (ACR + PhotoShop CS6, actually), but I haven't created a default profile to fix it.

 

[tosvus]

I will repeat my advice to look at kiss camera profiles, and no I have no affiliation! you will likely find a profile, maybe simulating Canon, that you are more pleased with!

 

[pellicle]

Some interesting reading on the Sony: http://diglloyd.com/blog/2014/20140212_2-SonyA7-RawDigger-posterization.html.

Nice post, made all is wading through what amounts to a bird aviary over a wetland worth it

Thanks

 

[Clint]

Setting up a preset in Lightroom for what you expect is your solution. I have one preset where no sharping occurs, no noise reduction, no Auto Tone adjustments, and use Camera Natural Camera Calibration. Because I often shoot many photos in nearly similar situations at once, this is a preferred Import preset for me to use for these types of photos.

Once my photos are imported I cull my photos deleting what I don't like, then adjust the first image to my liking, and synch those changes to all of the rest. From there I spend a minimal amount of time on each of the rest. My best photos may get 15 seconds to several minutes worth of adjustments and/or a trip to Photoshop and back.

Post processing RAW images can make or break photos from any camera manufacturer.

 

[RobWatson]

LR (ACR) is pretty generic. RAW development needs to be fine tuned and used as a preset. Once done the work is quite easy. Colins stuff (Huelight) is pretty nice but one still needs to fine tune to ones own taste/style.

Even finding lens profiles is tricky and one must constantly check for new/updates or build their own (way more Canikon users do this so easier to find).

Not to forget ACR is pretty limp compared to OV3 so choose wisely.

Took me about 2 years to settle on a specific group of presets but now processing is basically eliminated/automated except for 'rescue' attempts/efforts to save a photo with bad lighting or wrong settings.

I do the same effort with Canon so no real difference as far as the amount of work in developing RAW as far as platform goes. Noise is never an issue with proper settings and lighting appropriate for the subject.

Maybe my standards are too low.

Also, I'm not satisfied ... the price of seeking perfection.

 

[MuBear]

I did an extensive research before I bought my EM5. I scourged the internet for photos taken with m43 cameras, tested with sample raw files etc. so in my case I was already expecting it. Lets be honest here, the image quality is definitely inferior to that of an APS-C but that doesn't prevent me from going out and taking pictures, if anything, I find it more challenging and often I would find myself thinking more before pressing the shutter to get the best picture possible. I won't be selling my em5 any time soon, I am having a lot of fun with it. I carry it everywhere with me under all kinds of weather and have even gotten compliments from the nice looks of the EM5, I wouldn't feel so carefree I were carrying a Leica. So my suggestion for you is, unless you are on a budget or in a desperate need of the money, keep the camera.

 

[val]

LR puts sharpness at 25 by default, I don't mind it but it might reduce the "grainy" feel to the higher ISO shots.

 

[toyanucci]

I did an extensive research before I bought my EM5. I scourged the internet for photos taken with m43 cameras, tested with sample raw files etc. so in my case I was already expecting it. Lets be honest here, the image quality is definitely inferior to that of an APS-C but that doesn't prevent me from going out and taking pictures, if anything, I find it more challenging and often I would find myself thinking more before pressing the shutter to get the best picture possible. I won't be selling my em5 any time soon, I am having a lot of fun with it. I carry it everywhere with me under all kinds of weather and have even gotten compliments from the nice looks of the EM5, I wouldn't feel so carefree I were carrying a Leica. So my suggestion for you is, unless you are on a budget or in a desperate need of the money, keep the camera.

Having made adjustments for the issues I was having, I took a bunch of photos today and have been pleased with the results. The adobe profile used by default in LR was park of my problem as after import photos were very disheartening but I've resolved to tweaking the files and am quite happy with the results I'm getting. I'll continue fine tuning over the next few days and make a preset to help automate the necessary basic adjustments and fine tune individually after.

I love the em1 outside of the concerns I expressed. It's small enough to take everywhere and also un intrusive enough to take out anywhere and not have people stare at me or act too differently the way they do with "big" cameras. A photographer tonight had a 5DM2 and a Fuji X-E1 and she was shocked at the AF speeds my em1 gave. I also did some quick LR and photoshop edits before hitting the stage and she was so excited about the potential of the em1 that it made me excited too lol. As you said though, I'll have to be more mindful before taking certain shots to maximize the potential of the em1.

With that said, thanks to all those who contributed positively to this thread. I've learnt quite a bit, not just about photography and the em1, but about people and the nature of being flamed (this was my first time).

 

[bigboysdad]

This has turned out to be a very useful thread, if only to highlight the importance of setting the correct Lightroom presets *before* importing raw files. It really is important if using solely Lightroom (not sure if that's the case when applying Nik plugins straight to the raw files from LR?).