Nikon UK claims that CSC's not impacting DSLR sales.

Discussion in 'Micro 4/3 News and Rumors' started by flash, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    The current edition of Amateur Photographer (UK) has a section in the editorials where Simon Iddion, Product Manager for DX DSLR at Nikon UK mentions the impact of “CSC’s” on DSLR sales. In the article it states that Nikon in the UK sees the sales of CSC’s impacting on the compact camera market and not DSLRs. he goes on to say that people who want a DSLR aren't interested in a CSC (paraphrased).

    Canon seems to have the same line, officially. Do the big two have their heads in the sand, on this, or is it a ploy to distract us while they build a "killer" CSC of their own?

    Do you agree? What did you give up, if anything, to move into m4/3? How has that impacted, positively, or negatively your photography?

    I have kept my 35mm DSLR kit because I “need” it for work. But if I didn’t derive my income from photography I would probably not have any DSLRs any more. I have certainly retired any compact cameras in the house and I’m slowly off-loading them on eBay.

    Gordon
     
  2. pjohngren

    pjohngren Mu-43 Top Veteran

    560
    Oct 15, 2010
    As a long time DSLR user, I can't imagine going back to a DSLR, after using m4/3 cameras and lenses. I have sold most of my Nikon lenses and bought 5 Panasonic lenses and two bodies. They are a joy to use. For me it is like asking, "do you want to go back to using film?" The DSLR is from another era.
     
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  3. Spaceghost33

    Spaceghost33 Mu-43 Veteran

    257
    Feb 23, 2010
    Chicago, IL
    Christopher Stelter
    Chose to forgo DSLR

    I debated getting a DSLR, but opted for the GF1 due mostly to the fact that I have 5 and 3 year old boys and the thought of chasing them around with a bulky DSLR just didn't appeal to me. Plus, I like the "rangefinder" form-factor (size anyway).
     
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  4. f6cvalkyrie

    f6cvalkyrie Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 12, 2010
    Brussels, Belgium
    Hi, Gordon,

    my case is quite clearly an example against the theories of Nikon and Canon.
    A bit more than 2 years ago, I wanted to come back to photography, after having been absent for nearly 20 years. Before, I had owned (and still own, partly) 4x5inch systems, 6x6 systems (stolen from me, unfortunately, in the mid-80ties) and NIKON analog slr.

    My original dilemma was : back to Nikon ? Or something else ?
    I had quite a few Nikkor lenses, so I was disappointed that the digital generation of Nikon cameras weren't that compatible with their own lenses. But still, a D700 would have done the job.

    Then, as by miracle, my attention was drown to the newly available Panasonic G1. I bought it with the 14-45 and 45-200, and, a Nikkor F to micro4/3 adapter.

    I'm still a very happy G1 user, and shooting daily with a collection of Panasonic, Nikkor, Leica, Contax/Zeiss, Exa/Exakta, Kodak, Rodenstock, Schneider-Kreuznach, Hexanon, Meade and some c-mount glass, and even using (albeit sparcely) an adapter to 4x5.

    So, in my case, the purchase of the G1 was clearly a loss of sales for Nikon, and it might well stay so as long as micro4/3 keeps going. I feel absolutely no need to upgrade to a FF digital slr.

    Have a nice day,
    Rafael
     
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  5. Pelao

    Pelao Mu-43 Top Veteran

    959
    Feb 3, 2010
    Ontario, Canada
    Without having firm numbers it can be difficult to come to conclusions. My impression though would in some ways support the Nikon claim - for the current situation.

    I say this because it seems to me that a lot of MFT users (and Nex users) also own DSLRs, and often recent models - supported by lenses, flash units etc. The smaller cameras have been something of a novelty for the past few years and there remain some intense (and in my view often irrelevant) debates about image quality. We often read of people having a MFT camera for 'everyday' or 'casual' stuff, keeping the DSLR for 'serious' work.

    In this scenario MFT etc would indeed be eating into compact camera sales.

    The real question is: what happens next?

    if Panasonic and Olympus continue their MFT push, and the press continue an increasingly positive attitude, then I sense that the future might well be different. Nikon and Canon have powerful brands and a deeply entrenched infrastructure. On the other hand, things change more rapidly than in the past. I read of more and more people letting their DSLRs go simply because they are not using them.

    What I am really interested in is the strategies of Panasonic and Olympus. At times they seem hesitant.
     
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  6. shoturtle

    shoturtle  

    823
    Oct 15, 2010
    While the mirrorless is a great setup, with the m4/3 and nx and nex lines. They can not fill all the types of photography that the dslr still do better. And if those types of photography are what you are into, the mirrorless will not be able to replace the dslr.

    Every photographer is different. And if you are not into action shooting and more into general photography. The mirrorless has allot of merits over a dslr. But if you are chasing kids around at home or when they are at play. The entry dslr still offers a much better platform for someone looking to move up to a more advance camera then the mirrorless.

    So at the end, it really comes down to the needs of the photographer. And canon and nikon still see the huge growth in entry dslr's as most point and shooter are moving up toward that route especially parents trying to capture their kids growing up.

    I shoot everything that is why I run 2 systems, m4/3 for travel with general in mind, and a dslr for the low light and action stuff I like to shoot like plane spotting and dance. The 2 systems complements each other.
     
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  7. Pelao

    Pelao Mu-43 Top Veteran

    959
    Feb 3, 2010
    Ontario, Canada
    Absolutely - if there are things that you shoot where a given system can't handle it, then of course you will buy something else.

    I think though that we have seen a significant leap with the GH2, where focusing seems to match most entry level DSLRs. I would also say that I do not regard entry level DSLRs as more advanced in any way from the latest MFT camera and lens offerings.

    I suspect that the portion of the Nikon and Canon business most at risk is the lower end DSLR. If you can gain the same performance in a smaller package, why would you not consider the option?
     
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  8. pjohngren

    pjohngren Mu-43 Top Veteran

    560
    Oct 15, 2010

    I agree - it will start in the "lower end" - but that is the entry level end - that is where people come into the game, get bitten by the bug, and once they see what m4/3 can do, the image quality, and the Leica-like quality of the lenses etc, my bet is that they will stay. When they upgrade their G2 it will be to a GH2 or GH3 etc. Nikon will lose out, because it will be losing the most critical market of all - the entry level market. The behemoth cameras of the DSLR age will not be the cameras of the next generation.
     
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  9. soundimageplus

    soundimageplus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    782
    Feb 2, 2010
    Worcestershire
    I'm pretty much in the same position as you, though in my case having stopped shooting weddings, I'm beginning to question quite what my "need" is. There is still that little nagging voice that says "Don't ditch the DSLR", though I would dearly love to.

    Its partly because in many situations the speed, build, reliability and the look of the DSLR makes a difference. If however I was shooting exclusively for stock and picture libraries which is my main source of income then I would dispense with them.

    On the Nikon Canon issue, the current figures I've seen of total global camera sales show Sony in second place in front of Nikon and Samsung in a close 4th. place. Certainly its not the same in different countries but I'm wondering if Nikon and Canon are peoples automatic first considerations for non-DSLR's any more. I suspect that for CSC's people may be looking at other options first. Would people see a Nikon or Canon CSC less as an alternative to m4/3 and NEX or just another Coolpix or Powershot. Certainly they are way behind in terms of a significant system. Panasonic and Olympus have lots of models and lenses and by the time Nikon and Canon get anything into the shops Sony and Samsung will have expanded ranges as well. If they are to make a successful entry then I believe they will have to come in with something quite comprehensive and impressive straight away. Whether they are in a position to even contemplate something like that at the moment with a global recession and a national disaster to cope with is possibly very doubtful.
     
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  10. Adubo

    Adubo SithLord

    Nov 4, 2010
    Globetrotter
    Andrew
    i used to own and collected alot of canon gear, from eos 1v to the newer 5d mkI and 1d mkIIN, to semi pro bodies 20d 30d, down sized to 450d and alot of canon Ls / sigma EX lenses, i used it to fund my photography needs (since i was still a student the time i got really interested in photography), i did some weddings and pre nup shoots, debuts, events and even model /runway shoot.

    now im shooting purely for my street/photojourn passion and family use, i ditched everything and went micro 4/3, leica and some films. its more than enough for me

    i do sometimes miss the heft and the "pro look" in me when i shoot with a 1d mkIIN with a 200mm 2.8L, but the m4/3 has given more than i can overcome. especially using manual lenses in a digital body (the m4/3 and the m8) has always been a dream of mine

    old school style shooting, less the hassle of developing films and waiting for my "not so good" images to be corrected next time i take a similar shot.
     
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  11. Plimsol

    Plimsol Mu-43 Regular

    112
    Mar 29, 2010
    Belgium, Antwerp
    I had the same reason to stop with Nikon as Rafael (ValKyrie), they did not longer support all their lenses with the new (budget) DSLR.
    So i moved to Olympus (E420 and E30).
    After that i jumped on the EP-2.
    I use the two, DSLR for Studio and M43 for street, holiday and Family.
    For the moment i keep it this way.

    grtz,

    Jean
     
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  12. Pan Korop

    Pan Korop Mu-43 Veteran

    479
    Mar 31, 2011
    Phare Ouest
    Whatever wooden language a UK subsidiary executive decides to spread, well, he's paid to...

    I can't help thinking that :43: does not steal P&S market shares significantly. Smartphones do :rolleyes:
    Point-and-shoot cameras used to be the real bread and butter for Nikon and Canon: little R&D, big volumes. Now phones must itch them, as any camera manufacturer, way more than :43:
     
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  13. kai.e.g.

    kai.e.g. Mu-43 Regular

    Without getting into the pros & cons of "CSC" vs "SLR" systems.... if I had scored points for every time a major company (or politician) had casually dismissed a newly popular product style (or policy) as something they would never consider getting into... yet months later revealed with great fanfare plans of their own for a "new and exciting" [read: "very similar"] product, well, then I'd have lots of points and maybe even my own blog.
     
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  14. Bluegrass

    Bluegrass Mu-43 Regular

    46
    Apr 10, 2011
    I am only a hobbyist, and make my living in the legal field, not in photography, therefore my perspective may be different from others. That being said, Canon lost substantial money on me. I had come into some extra coinage and was debating whether to beef up my Canon DSLR outfit or dip my toe into the smaller camera market. I agonized for months over the decision (as I am inclined to do). But once I made the decision, I didn't just dip my toe into the :43: market, I jumped in with both feet. I was going to sell my Canon stuff (since I wasn't using it anymore), but my husband, who is an unabashed pack-rat, decided to latch on to it.

    As I age, I don't miss the weight and bulk of the Canon. More importantly, I find that I am taking more pictures now and I am extremely satisfied with pictures I am getting. Sorry Canon (and Nikon), at least from my perspective, THAT is what it's all about.
     
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  15. leonberdi

    leonberdi Mu-43 Regular

    133
    Apr 15, 2011
    Montreal
    What if you already have/had a compact?

    I bought the EPL1 at a time when I wanted to step up from a compact, yet I did not want to lose much of the portability that the compacts offer.

    Had there been Nikon or Canon m43 models I definitely would have considered them. And if m43s did not exist, I would have bought a DSLR. So, in my case, Canon and Nikon quite likely did lose a potential customer.
     
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  16. Adubo

    Adubo SithLord

    Nov 4, 2010
    Globetrotter
    Andrew
    i hope Canon and Nikon's reading this thread and they'd be like, "we have to join the m43 fun!"
     
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  17. Spanjaart

    Spanjaart Mu-43 Regular

    35
    Sep 6, 2010
    dslr vs m43

    I use m43 gear for portability, for 90% of my photos I use a Nikon D700 or similar dslr because of faster AF, more lenses available, better high iso, better viewfinder, better flash system etc.
    Still I love my m43 gear for making great shots possible while only 1/5th of the weight.
     
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  18. ~tc~

    ~tc~ Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 22, 2010
    Houston, TX
    x2, except it was a GF1 + 20mm + 45-200 and 45/2.8 later and 14-50 just recently ... so about $3000 that could have been theirs ...
     
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  19. shoturtle

    shoturtle  

    823
    Oct 15, 2010
    I have played with the GH2 allot, and it is still not the best options for speed when action is involved. It can get some shots. But you really need to be patience and pick your spots. The low end canon T3 uses the same AF as the T3i, T2i and T1i. And it does make it allot easier to shoot what most parents get an entry dslr for better then the GH2. Chasing their kids. And the EVF blackout because of the refresh rate is one on the biggest draw back in the mirrorless system. It does not allow fluid panning or keeping your subject frame properly in burst mode.

     
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  20. Brianetta

    Brianetta Mu-43 Veteran

    438
    Sep 5, 2010
    North East England
    Brian Ronald
    When browsing for a camera, I had ruled out dSLRs based on their size and weight, and the fact that live view was always a fudged-in feature. As a result, I was looking at small bridge cameras (upgrading from a Kodak DX6490). Micro Four Thirds competed with them for my attention, and won. In fact, it was good enough to secure a sale, where I hadn't planned to buy.
     
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