Nikon mirrorless camera, when?

Discussion in 'Micro 4/3 News and Rumors' started by Herman, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. Herman

    Herman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 7, 2010
    The Netherlands
    Any rumors on a new Nikon mirrorless camera with smaller then mft sensor?
     
  2. BillN

    BillN Mu-43 All-Pro Charter Member

    Jan 19, 2010
    SW France
    Herman - I'm also waiting

    Enjoy the B-B-Q and the pils

    Steady on the Autobahn with those crazy German drivers
     
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  3. kwaphoto

    kwaphoto Mu-43 Regular

    55
    Jun 4, 2010
    Colorado, USA
    Why smaller than m4/3 sensor? That doesn't make much sense to me at all. Odd, really.
     
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  4. Herman

    Herman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 7, 2010
    The Netherlands
    Goodmorning guys. Thanks for your postings.
    Ken: it is rumored that Nikon is working on a camera with a small sensor, this means small package, low weight, I'm looking forward to such pocket friendly camera.
    Bill: we got 30 degrees Celsius in the shadow, BBQ mmm, German pils helped a lot.
     
  5. JoepLX3

    JoepLX3 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    509
    Jun 13, 2010
    Japan
    Why not stick to the current non-full-field sensor size they have in the DSLR market and go for more compact bodies (and lenses)?
    - much smaller than m43 doesn't make much sense to me (giving up too much optics, not gaining too much room in pocket)...

    Nikon D3: 36 x 23.9 mm (8.6 cm²)
    Nikon D5000: 23.6 x 15.8 mm (3.72 cm²)

    4/3 " (18.00 x 13.50 mm, 2.43 cm²)
     
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  6. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro Charter Member

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
    many small cameras were full frame , back when film was king my olympus xa and xa4
    contax g1 nikon 28 T ithe magnificent rolleis , whay dont the camera makera understand what they would sell if they would rerelease one of theses gems with a sensor film plate... how about a digital "sony "highmatic 7sII 40 1.7 black paint!!
    anyone want on that waiting list?

    they would sell 5 million in the first 24 hours
     
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  7. Carol Stee

    Carol Stee Mu-43 Regular Charter Member

    41
    Jan 17, 2010
    Yes, Nikon EVIL patents from Japan (electronic viewfinder mirrorless interchangeable lens) Lenses (to convert to full frame equivalent, multiple the focal length by x2.5):

    * 32 mm f/1.2
    * 14mm f/2.8
    * 18mm f/1.4
    * 30-107mm f/4-5.6
    * 10.5-107mm f/3.3-6
    * 10.5-108mm f/2.8-6
    * 9-42.6mm f/2.8 – 5.6
    * 10.5-107mm f/2.8 – 5.9

    All of the above lenses have an image diameter of 17 mm. Currently Nikon doesn’t have a camera with 17mm sensor (diagonal) which is smaller than 4/3rd format (21.6 mm). In some of the patents the lenses are described as “employable as an interchangeable lens system”. If Sony comes with an EVIL system next week, it will be interesting to see the sensor size. If the diagonal is 17mm, we will have a BINGO since this is where Nikon will get their sensor from (speculation).

    Here are the links:
    Nikon EVIL patents from Japan | Nikon Rumors
    Will Dr. EVIL knock on Nikon's door? (Nikon EVIL camera recap) | Nikon Rumors
     
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  8. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro Charter Member

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
  9. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro Charter Member

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    Real Name:
    John
    I think a digital sensor and processor must take up more room than we think, otherwise Olympus would not be struggling to fit everything into the Pen. They've only recently been able to include a flash and I don't suppose the clip on EVF was a conscious design decision rather than a physical necessity. I do agree they could make a slightly smaller camera with a fixed prime lens (yes please) and believe they will eventually shoe-horn an EVF into the existing Pen dimensions.
     
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  10. adam

    adam Mu-43 Regular

    68
    Apr 21, 2010
    Maryland
    I think there are light-bending issues for digital sensors that didn't apply to film when using a large sensor and a small register distance. The problem is, at the corners, the light is hitting the sensor at a very small angle, and the microlenses on a digital sensor are more sensitive to that than film is, so on digital you end up with corner softness and severe vignetting. With a smaller sensor or a larger register distance, the problem isn't as bad. That's why the Leica M8 didn't have a full-frame sensor...at the time, Leica claimed it was impossible, although they seem to have solved the problem with the M9. I think the microlenses on the M9 are spaced differently at the edges than the center, or they might be aimed differently. I read an article about this several months ago, so I might be explaining something very wrong...but it makes sense to me :)

    I don't know why they'd need to go any smaller than Four Thirds though...any sensor smaller than ours is going to have to make some fairly serious compromises in terms of image quality, especially now that there are EVIL cameras with APS-C sensors. So, I don't buy it :)
     
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  11. mauve

    mauve Mu-43 Top Veteran

    892
    Mar 9, 2010
    Paris, France
    The problem is in the sensor chip. The difference between 4/3 and APS-C doesn't look that big when you see a diagram (look for 4/3 on wikipedia to find one), but the useful surface increase by 50%. Good for the buyer, not so good for the chip maker, and it's even worse when it comes to FF sensors :

    Firstly, chips are cut out of a pure silicium wafer ; the surface of the slice is fixed, hence, the bigger your sensor, the less you produce per wafer. If you can stick 1000 diminutive sensors on a wafer and only 10 Full Frame, cost of the wafer being constant, you begin to understand the problem. Secondly, etching millions of transistors and all the connections between them can't be perfect every time. If you lose 10 small sensors in 1000 chips, you still lose far less than 1 big FF sensor among 10. And finally, time being a near constant here, you produce 100 times less sensors per time unit ! Are you ready to pay the difference ?

    see bottom of this page :
    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
     
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  12. blue

    blue Mu-43 Veteran

    280
    Jun 1, 2010
    UK

    But Sony have managed to fit an APS with stabilisation into a tiny little NEX body ?

    I'd like to see an Olympus or maybe even Nikon/Canon mirrorless APS - good images, good lenses, but lightweight, with a good grip and decent screen.
     
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  13. Herman

    Herman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 7, 2010
    The Netherlands
    Hi everyone, thanks for your postings. I'm looking for a digital reflex (system) camera with same or less size and weight of the earlier analog days. Don't understand why mft is still too oversized and too heavy. Do I have to go back in time and pick up my Rollei Led 35?
    Mmm.
     
  14. photoSmart42

    photoSmart42 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    628
    Feb 12, 2010
    San Diego, CA
    AFAIK the NEX has OIS, not IBIS, meaning the lenses are stabilized like on Panasonic cameras, but not the body like the Olympus cameras. The rumor is that the NEX-7 might have IBIS, but it's just a rumor.
     
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  15. JoepLX3

    JoepLX3 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    509
    Jun 13, 2010
    Japan
    Just googled the camera, looks nice, why don't you just attach a digital back like below?

    Google Afbeeldingen resultaat voor http://www.studiolighting.net/wp-content/images/RB67_Adapter.jpg

    :2thumbs:
     
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  16. cosinaphile

    cosinaphile Mu-43 All-Pro Charter Member

    Dec 26, 2009
    new york city
    as was mentioned the nex 3 and 5 have good sized sensor not full frame but aps c , at 1.5 or 1.6 crop factor canon made lots of aps h which are close to full frame [1.3 crop] and the bodies are tiny , franklywithout the film chambers, 2 per camera and the wind transmiission i think there is lots of room for the digital guts in a modern camera these are mostly solid state affair now a days i know yoy can get a lot in with a tiny size ,, look what the ricoh gxr series bodies can do can do
    i honestly dont know how much a full frame or almost full frame sensor would cost but a nikon d 3000 body ,lens, lcd, processor,flash all the camera systems the focus engine meter sells etc sells for 400-500 $... ill guess that the sensor cost them 10-15 percent ??

    that would be 40 - 75 dollars anyway.. an aps c would be fine with a 9 or 10 mp count even if it costs 4 times that it could go in a body like the epli which m is a relative bargain
    with nice fat light wells at the corners .... one can dream they make one hell of camera,
     
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  17. apicius9

    apicius9 Mu-43 Veteran Subscribing Member

    342
    Feb 1, 2010
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    I'm perfectly happy with the GH1 and the LX3 right now. But: A small camera that can adapt my small and fast c-mount lenses without vignetting and better sharpness across the frame would be a great addition - the Angenieux 25/0.95 with a crop factor of 2.5 should make a great portrait lens, the Kern 75/1.9 would almost turn into a fast 200mm macro lens... So, I'm keeping an eye on what Nikon is doing, just as I am waiting to see what the GH2 will bring.

    Stefan
     
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  18. mauve

    mauve Mu-43 Top Veteran

    892
    Mar 9, 2010
    Paris, France
    Somewhat old, but I don't think ratios changed that much while pixel count was improving (see page 11, straight from the horse's mouth) :

    http://www.usa.canon.com/uploadedimages/FCK/Image/White Papers/Canon_CMOS_WP.pdf
     
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  19. Letrow

    Letrow Mu-43 Regular

    35
    Jun 16, 2010
    Netherlands
    Yeah, I agree with you Herman. Still too many limitations on 4/3 for me as well at this moment, but we seem to be headed in the right direction.

    @cosinaphile: still have a Nikon 35Ti in a drawer at home. Lovely little camera, saw you mentioned its little brother. If they could put a nice big sensor into one of those...
     
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  20. JoepLX3

    JoepLX3 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    509
    Jun 13, 2010
    Japan
    Would build-in EVF, but without LCD, sell to the big market?
     
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