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Nikon FF Mirrorless System is getting close-July Announcement?

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by SpecFoto, Jul 5, 2018.

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  1. SpecFoto

    SpecFoto Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    574
    Aug 28, 2012
    So Cal
    Jim
    Seems that Nikon is finally getting around to announcing their mirrorless system. See this link for the latest info:

    Nikon mirrorless camera specs recap | Nikon Rumors

    Long time Nikon shooter and while I am glad the Nikon has finally decided to join the mirrorless party, they are sooo… late in doing so, that I believe unless they really knock it out of the park, and provide fully featured cameras (not dumbed down on either) with a functionally working AF adapter for existing F-mount lenses, their adaption rate to the new mirrorless system will falter.

    Come August 10, it will be SIX years ago that I made the choice to add a mirrorless camera system to my Nikon setups. I went with the Olympus EM5 and for what the new rumored high MP system with 1 zoom is going to sell for, $4,000, I bought the EM5, 5 fast f1.8 to f2 primes, a fisheye and a 45-175mm f4-5.6 zoom. I have used this system for most of my portrait, travel and general shooting, expanding upon it to where I now have a big investment in M4/3 including 3 bodies, a trio of fast f2.8 zooms and 3 f1.2 or f1.4 primes, plus the original primes. I love the eye detect and IBIS. I have been using IBIS with an mf adapter and 4 of my favorite Nikkor AIS MF lenses, the 24mm f2, 35mm f1.4, 50mm f1.2 and the 105mm f2.5, since late 2013. I have been very pleased with my mostly Olympus gear and plan on continuing to add to the system. And it’s not just me; since 2010 I have been shooting about once a month with a 10 person group of mostly Nikon shooters, who are former newspaper, photo class teachers and ex-pro photographers. All have multiple bodies and numerous lenses. Yet most of them have already made a decision to add a 2nd camera mirrorless system. 2 went with M4/3 (because of me insisting and giving them lenses to try out), 2 with Sony, 1 Fuji and 1 Canon M series. 1 went the other way and added a Leica SL :rolleyes: 

    Besides my D500 that I use for action/sports, I have a D800 that I use for nature/landscapes and have consider upgrading it for a D850, as I would be thrilled to have the D850 with 46MP, ISO64 and the same body layout and controls as my D500. But now I will wait to see what the new mirrorless system brings and how good the adapter for F mounts lenses works. If, and only if, the adaptor is good, I might buy a new high MP Z mount body instead of a D850, but most likely not new Z mount lenses, as I have great Nikkor lenses already. The decision to buy into a smaller, lighter weight mirrorless system was made long ago, that ship has sailed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    790
    Sep 21, 2016
    Melbourne, Australia
    You missed the Nikon N1.

    Yes, Nikon faces a major marketing challenge with mirrorless. There are well established mature products in place. It's biggest potential instant market is its own DSLR users but migration will involve some perils.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. SpecFoto

    SpecFoto Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    574
    Aug 28, 2012
    So Cal
    Jim
    Missed it on purpose. I never considered it for my shooting, but more like a ILC point an shoot. Seems a lot of other Nikon DSLR shooters felt the same way, as it was overpriced and never that popular.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
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  4. davidzvi

    davidzvi Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    It was over priced and only got a good sensor at the end in the J5.

    But it had very good AF, well ahead of it's time. There are many things Nikon could do "wrong" in what ever they finally release. But they really have no excuse if the AF isn't at least as good as the 1 series. And that could really kill them. IMHO
     
  5. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    I think the Nikon FF mirrorless is going to be a game changer. Nothing is set in stone and Nikon glass is still some of the best out there. They also have the pro infrastructure to put real hurt onto Sony's pro-oriented pursuits and they have no reason to hold back when it comes to video (unlike Canon).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  6. magIBIS

    magIBIS Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    183
    Jun 8, 2016
    Central Europe
    I have another read for you :
    Samsung open to new camera system, joins forces with Fujifilm - EOSHD

    Could it be Nikon gets the full frame sensor while Fuji takes Apsc and MF?
    I think it's unlikely if they already have a ready product to go for the next months that the Fuji-Samsung News are meaningful - but maybe they made a calm deal with Samsung earlier? There was some talking back then, when Samsung pulled back. They were capable of 6k readout for 4k video sensorvise in 2015 at 240p if I get it right - the Nikon should have the processing power to use that now. Sooo - was there a plant producing something based on that knowledge? Or will the Nikon get a Sony sensor of the shelf?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    I guess I don't get what the big deal is. It's just another camera system. We already have lots of them, with all kinds of sensor sizes and lens mounts. There's not a thing Nikon can offer that doesn't exist in some shape or form.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  8. SpecFoto

    SpecFoto Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    574
    Aug 28, 2012
    So Cal
    Jim
    Incorrect. What Nikon can finally bring is a high MP mirrorless system that works with its huge assortment of Nikkor AF lenses. That doesn't exist. While Metabones makes an AF adapter for Canon lenses to work with Sony bodies, there isn't one for Nikon. This is what has Nikon users so excited.

    Are you aware that 2 years ago in July 2016, Nikkor interchangeable lens production reached 100 million lenses? The current F-mount for SLR bodies started in 1959 and maybe 50% of the 100 million (wag) are AF for the F mount, but still a huge number and many many are still in use. People collect these things. I bought my first new Nikkor AF lens back in 1989, a 20mm F2.8, and still use it all the time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  9. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    They have a D850 that works with all those lenses.

    I don't see mirrorless as an advantage if I'm adapting SLR lenses. It's a disadvantage because now I need an adapter and it handles horribly due to the thinner body size.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Yes, and what a good system to miss. Lackluster 1" sensors (relative to Sony's), and a bunch of 3.5-5.6 lenses. Although they did have that f/1.2 85-ish lens that sold for what, like $900, and delivered rendering very similar to what could be produced with an Oly 45 f/1.8?

    About the only good thing from the 1 series was its OSPDAF, and Nikon needs that to be a hit when these cameras launch if they plan to put any dent in Sony's established market-share.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    While I don't disagree, that's the same argument all the FF users make about the 45mm f1.2 Pro and 42.5mm 1.2 Leica. F1.2 is complicated, regardless of crop factor.

    They also had a pretty sweet $200 pancake 18.5mm f1.8 (50mm equivalent) I kept waiting for them to make more lenses like that. At the time, the AF and speed of the Nikon 1 cameras was like night and day vs m4/3, so it was tempting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I have to agree with @tkbslc@tkbslc on this one. Having a camera the size of an A7 body, and then putting something like the 70-200 f/2.8 E, 105/1.4 E, 24-70 VR, etc. on that camera is just not appealing, because the handling will be atrocious.

    I think that a truly successful FF mirrorless kit (for "normal" photography) would consist of f/4 zooms and f/2 primes. You can deal with the slower zooms by upping the ISO thanks to the fantastic high-ISO performance of modern FF sensors. If you look at something like Sony's 24-70 f/4, it's not much bigger or heavier than the 12-40 PRO for m43, but delivers 1-stop better DoF performance. If you need more shutter speed, just increase the ISO. The same applies for f/1.8 or 2 primes. Look at how small lenses like Sony's 28/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 are. They're basically the same size as the PRO primes we have in M43 (which balance perfectly on cameras with a proper grip, i.e. the E-M1 II, G9, etc.), but deliver ~1 stop more DoF control.

    Nikon (and Canon) will no doubt have f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms to compete with Sony, but I personally feel that lenses that large and heavy are better off on a DSLR body, which has a larger and more secure grip to help deal with that weight. Smaller and lighter zooms and primes balance great on E-M1 II / G9 / A7 III style bodies, and would really enable a user to exploit the advantages of a FF sensor, without paying the hideous size and weight penalty of FF DSLRs and fast glass.
     
  13. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I'm very excited to see what Nikon brings out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
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  14. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    I love seeing new photo gear, so I'm also excited to see what they release, too. I just don't agree with the sentiment that it's going to be a "game changer" or anything like that. It's more like lets see how Nikon joins the game that nearly everyone else has already been playing.

    We know it took years for m4/3 to have a great lens lineup and that was with two players making lenses. Sony is just barely getting there after 5 years of aggressive releases for FF. So no matter what they launch, it's going to be years before it's truly competitive.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I've used most of the Sony lenses and have to say that I tend to prefer the Oly PRO primes, eg comparing Oly 17/1.2 to Sony 35/2.8 and 28/2, Oly 25/1.2 to Sony 50/1.8, etc. As a general rule, when shot at matched DOFs, I find that the Oly primes give me bokeh which more to my taste, more even sharpness across the field, and less field curvature, amongst other things.

    That said, I do like having the ability to shoot even more shallow DOF than the Oly PRO primes can do. There really is no perfect system :) .
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  16. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    I agree fully, but so far with Sony, not very many of the lenses are much smaller than their SLR counterparts. A few of the wide angles are, but the rest look like SLR lenses with built in mirrorless adapters.
     
  17. Carbonman

    Carbonman Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jul 10, 2014
    Vancouver BC
    Graham
    Me too, though I won't buy any of it; I'm very happy with m43. Anything that gets more people shooting pictures with 'real cameras' is a win for all of us.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    This brings to mind the Coolpix A - a seemingly serious attempt by Nikon to make a large-sensor compact, subsequently abandoned like it had never existed. I feel like Nikon is very confused about what they want, I hope they have a clearer vision this time. I loved my D40 when it was my first camera bought as I became serious about taking pictures. I particularly like the way Nikon processes digital files, they are real crowd-pleasers. However I couldn't care less about their popularity and I think they've been forgiven a lot more than they deserve with their lack of innovation in the past almost-decade.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    790
    Sep 21, 2016
    Melbourne, Australia
    The appeal of mirrorless to many is smaller size and that's lost with F mount lenses and adapter.
    The body and the system it supports will have to be compelling in terms of features, cost and performance in a domain that already has some very good offerings. That's a big ask of a firm that's shown signs of complacency.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    AFAIK, AF gets easier when the glass gets smaller. The Sony RX100 has really solid AF, too. I don't think it's super-impressive tech as much as it's easier to move elements in/out when they are a lot smaller and have smaller distances to travel. I'm no engineer, but that's what it seems to me.
     
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