Nikon D810

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by Phocal, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    With my decision to forgo sports and seriously concentrate on wildlife photography, I am seriously considering selling all my Olympus gear and picking up one. Anyone ever use the D810 and able to compare it to the EM1? Looking for in use comparisons (not IQ comparisons), like customization difference (ability to assign functions to buttons), ease of use etc............

    I am going to go to the local camera store to actually hold one tomorrow and see how I like it.

    My biggest concern is which lens to start with. Not sure I want to shell out the big bucks for one of their top primes (600mm or 500mm) just yet. That leaves me with either the 200-500, but it is not weather sealed and that would probably seriously bother me (they really messed up not making that lens weather sealed to compete with Canons 100-400) or the Sigma 150-600 Sport. I have read a few reviews comparing the two and the Sigma seems to beat the Nikon, but is much heavier. Anyone have experience with the two lenses? I know the Nikon is faster but not that much and I am not sure it is that much of a difference when shooting full frame with the higher ISO ability.

    Any insight it greatly appreciated...........

    Ronnie
     
  2. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    Sameer
    A very good friend of mine shoots with one, so I have played around with it. Ditto with the Sigma 150-600. The kit together weighs nearly 10lbs and is decidedly large. For my needs, I would likely not go back to DSLRs. But I am curious why you are considering this. As a thoughtful person who seems to produce excellent images with your m43 kit, what are you looking to gain by making this change?
     
  3. panamike

    panamike Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jul 5, 2016
    Lincolnshire UK
    Curious to know how you arrived at the 810,your thinking ect, i know some use it as a wildlife camera but isnt the D750 a lot faster on focus especially moving targets.
     
  4. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    Increased IQ, especially when shooting in low light. I was out with some friends Saturday and one was shooting a Nikon full frame (pretty sure she shoots the D4) and the other a Canon 7Dmk2. The Nikon shooter was taking photos a good bit sooner then either of us and even when I did start shooting I was pushing ISO 3200 (not sure why I shoot that high as I always delete all those photos), which looks a whole lot better in full frame. Hell, I don't even like shooting my EM1 over ISO 800 for wildlife, but will go to 1600 when I am forced to.

    The D750 is a bit faster focusing, but either is just as fast and has better CAF and tracking then my EM1 (Pretty sure both have the same autofocus system as the D4). Plus, if I wanted fast I would look at the D5 or D500 (D500 is not really an increase in IQ from the EM1mk2)....................I am looking for IQ and the D810 is better then the D750 in that regard and has a bit more room for cropping, it also has better IQ then the D5 (it just lacks the buffer and fps of the D5). I don't shoot BiF, so the D810 should be more then adequate for what I shoot. I would miss the deep buffer for continuous shooting, so it is something to think about.

    I may wait and see what the upgrade to the D810 is like, should be announced soon and released this year.

    I may even look at the new Canon 5D mk4, since it can do 7fps now.
     
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  5. NWright

    NWright Mu-43 Veteran

    200
    Jan 13, 2014
    Massachusetts
    I'd check out the Tamron 150-600 G2. It's around 4.25 lbs (lighter than the 200-500) and has been getting very good user reviews. I'm seriously considering that lens or the new Nikon 300 f4 with TCs as a major purchase this year.
     
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  6. panamike

    panamike Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jul 5, 2016
    Lincolnshire UK
    Would the new Sigma 500mm be of any interest to you.
     
  7. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    The Sigma Sport is significantly better then the Tamron and I have never been a fan of Tamron lenses.
     
  8. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    Actually, my friend that was shooting the Nikon Saturday was using that lens...................it seems to perform very well.
     
  9. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    Sameer
    This I can see.

    I would recommend that you get some of those RAW images from your friend (if you can) and look at them to see how you like them. For an event we shot together, I was a little disappointed in the high ISO IQ of results from my friend's D810 as the improvement over my E-M1 was marginal at best. I only saw the final jpegs, though.
     
  10. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    Join Nikonians.org

    Things to keep in mind about the 200-500mm lens, it’s not fast at f/5.6 – but then shooting at 1600 on a D810 is not issue to me. It’s not any place close to Nikons quickest focusing lens. It needs humongous filters – 95mm I think. It’s a 5lb lens!

    The newer 80-400mm lens is again a slow lens f/4.5-6, but focusing quickly, 77mm filters, is only 3.5 lbs. Has a seal on the rear of the lens, not sure if that makes it weather sealed or not. I prefer it over the 200-500mm – but there are a lot of people that prefer the 200-500mm.

    I’ve called the D800 camera the best camera I’ve ever owned, and the 810 upped that. The ergonomics are fabulous, all the controls that are needed quickly are there. Customization allows a lot, the custom menu probably has over 150 things to so set and change. The thing I like most but it, is when I shoot with it I have high level of trust and a feel of "I nailed it" that I've never gotten with the OM-Ds. BTW - the manual is well in excess of 400 pages! Yet...

    There are a lot of differences between Olympus and Nikon, I’d highly recommend getting Thom Hogan’s D810 Guide! There is the right information (and a ton more) in there for you to maximize your use and the best of the camera, information that would be extremely hard and very time consuming to figure out.

    Despite what I’ve said, my Nikon gear still sits in my cabinet most of the time. But when I need unquestionable gear and quality it comes out. I prefer to the use the E-M1 MkII and Panasonic 100-400mm lens over the Nikon and 80-400mm for a lot of things – but when needed I rent whatever long lens that is needed.

    I’m going to venture to say that for your photography you’ll want the 400mm f/2.8 with a teleconverter.
     
  11. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    She was shooting a D4, so can't really compare that to the D810. I do have a friend shooting a Canon 5Dmk4, going to get some of his RAW files to look at....................

    I find it hard to believe that anything under 3200 is not significantly better then the EM1mk1.....
     
  12. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    Thanks for your insight. I am not really interested in the slower lenses and the 200-500 not being weather sealed makes it an almost no go for me. I am only looking at the Sigma 150-600 as a lens to start with as I decide which long lens I really want. When I shot Canon I had the 500mm f4.0 and always wished I had gotten the 600mm f4.0 when I shot my 1D but the 500mm was perfect for the 7D. The 400/2.8 is probably a good way to go, but need to test with the TC's to see how well it compares to the 500 or 600. I do like that Nikon has 1.4, 1.7 and 2.0 TC's, something I had always wished Canon had done. I also don't know how good the Nikon TC's are. When I shot Canon I hated them and never used them. I never really liked using TC's until I started using the Olympus 4/3's TC's, which are amazing.

    I may stay with Olympus..............just exploring my options as it became apparent on Saturday how much sooner in the morning you can shoot when ISO 3200 is a possibility.
     
  13. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    Sameer
    It was a straight up 3200 vs 3200 comparison and the Nikon was better. Just not better enough to make a difference to me. Lot of variables, so I am not trying to argue anything here. And I was a long time Nikon shooter and always felt that they had the best low light performance. And the D4 was supposed to be the low-light champ. Mostly my suggestion was that you should see the files your friend shot when you were not shooting (or able to shoot) and decide if you would find them useable. That to me would the key metric.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  14. RichDesmond

    RichDesmond Mu-43 Veteran Subscribing Member

    496
    Nov 18, 2011
    Given that you seem to be focal length limited to some extant even when using adapted lenses on m4/3, I'm surprised that you would consider the lower pixel density of the 810. To get the same framing that you now get with the Bigma, you'll need to throw away 75% of the 810's pixels.
    Color me confused... :)
     
  15. NWright

    NWright Mu-43 Veteran

    200
    Jan 13, 2014
    Massachusetts
    Interesting! Could you point me to your sources comparing these lenses? I've only read rave reviews of the newest line of SP G2 tamron lenses.
     
  16. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I'm surprised to see this thread @Phocal@Phocal . I thought your love of m43 was due to the reach you're able to get due to the smaller sensor. Is 600mm (FF eqv.) enough for what you like to shoot? If it is, are you prepared to haul that weight around in the swamp all day?

    If so, then there's no doubt that the D810 offers significantly better low-light performance than m43 cameras. But as with everything in life, everything's a compromise, and weight is definitely a compromise with the D810.
     
  17. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    For telephoto shooting, FF vs Crop gets pretty interesting. There's a complex ratio between cropping, lens size, effective aperture and the like. Sure the D810 will crop a lot, but at a 2x crop (to get m4/3 reach) you are at only 9 megapixels. So you'll definitely be using longer and larger lenses to get the same reach. You'd need 80MP to get the same crop from FF as 20MP 4/3.

    Effective aperture is another one. Good FF has about 1.5-2 stops on m4/3 for noise (and D810 is not one of the best FF for noise). That's great. But FF super teles are so big and expensive. So a lot of people go for the cheaper super tele zooms. Then you are shooting f5.6 or worse. That means you lose a stop or more vs the more interesting 4/3 options, erasing most of that ISO noise advantage. Also, if you crop more, you effectively reduce your sensor size and increase the size of the noise relative to the picture size. So you lose even more of the noise advantage. In some cases you may even be worse off.

    Even if you buy a huge expensive 500mm f4, if you compare to a 300mm f4 on 4/3 (600mm equiv), you have to crop the D810 to 25MP, and you are reducing your sensor area by 1.44 (exactly one stop). So you are going to have the noise like you shot on APS-C. That means you are only gaining 5MP and about a half a stop vs m4/3, and you are using a lens that is ridiculously large and expensive to get that tiny benefit.

    If you truly invest in the huge super telephotos, like a 600mm f4 or 800mm f5.6, on a FF camera, then sure, FF is pretty hard to beat. But those are both a $12,000 lens that weighs 10lbs.
     
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  18. MNm43

    MNm43 Mu-43 Regular

    140
    Mar 19, 2014
    Ronnie,
    I'm a bit confused as well. The comparisons I've seen don't put the M1.ii that far behind the 810 in terms of high ISO performance. At least on the dpreview comparator it looks to be about a half stop. Though you lose in resolution, you gain in reach and honestly when you are talking about 600mm ff equiv, that Oly 300 f4 looks like a bargain.

    Also, if you are not keen on BIF, then FPS (and even tracking to some extent) become a moot point.

    Have you looked at the D500 (or if tracking and FPS isn't an issue) then the D7200? You gain reach advantage of DX with good tracking and as good or better high ISO performance of the D810. Despite the lack of weatherproofing, that 200-500 is a really popular lens and I've seen some good imagery from it.
     
  19. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    That's why I may wait for the D810 upgrade, which should see a significant improvement over the EM1mk2. Actually, FPS is the one issue I have with the D810....and FPS is just as important when photographing birds catching fish or two deer fighting.........fps is just not for BiF.

    I have no real desire to get an APSC camera, not enough difference from the EM1mk2. The lack of weatherproofing is why I would never buy the 200-500. While I am not super keen on the Sigma 150-600, it will allow me to shoot wildlife while renting and testing the other lenses and it is weather sealed (buying one used will allow me to lose minimum amount of cash when I sell it). If I where to go back to Canon, I would know exactly what lenses I would buy and I really do prefer the Canon lenses and their line up over Nikon......just not a huge fan of their sensors. I am getting some RAW files from my friends 5Dmk4 to look at tho.
     
  20. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    I have seen photos from the day, needless to say it was one of the few times I was jealous about someone's gear. She is going to get me some RAW files to look at, but I am not really interested in the D4.........they still want to much money for them even used.